Balance based on hard data from the PBEM tournament (continued)

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions Balance based on hard data from the PBEM tournament (continued)

This topic contains 225 replies, has 26 voices, and was last updated by  Jolly Joker 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #258467

    devolution
    Member

    What about nerfing twisting roots like I described in the steam forum ?
    (Huge thanks for the PBEM mod btw!)

    #258477

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Thanks for the good words! 🙂

    What about nerfing twisting roots like I described in the steam forum ?

    As I said on Steam:
    “Twisting Roots was indeed spotted in the radar but nobody really complained about it up to now so we did not try tackling it. But I keep that in mind, and you’re probably right that a 3 turns duration would be a good solution. We already have a kind of congestion in the pipe of proposed changes for v1.23 but if a change to Twisting Root doesn’t make it for v1.23, it should make it in v1.24.”

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Hiliadan.

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    #258504

    Zaskow
    Member

    What about nerfing twisting roots like I described in the steam forum ?
    (Huge thanks for the PBEM mod btw!)

    This spell would be nerfed in 1.23.
    Biggest problems it has, because: a) it can appear as starting spell; b) it’s pretty powerful spell if used correctly.

    “Twisting Roots was indeed spotted in the radar but nobody really complained about it up to now so we did not try tackling it. But I keep that in mind, and you’re probably right that a 3 turns duration would be a good solution. We already have a kind of congestion in the pipe of proposed changes for v1.23 but if a change to Twisting Root doesn’t make it for v1.23, it should make it in v1.24.”

    I was aware about power of this spell even on live MP matches with friends. On manual battles vs. dull AI it could be pretty devastating.
    3 turns limit is too huge. First nerf would be deleting possibility for this spell to be in spellbook from start of game and to limit its appearing after first 5-7 turns only.

    #258567

    devolution
    Member

    @zaskow: Thanks for making this change a priority, I totally agree that it should not be among the possible starting spells!

    #258867

    Hiliadan
    Member

    New priority changes:
    Ne15a
    Undeads that attack a unit with Necromantic Aura get “Mind Control Immunity” if the Aura fails its 7 spirit attack check on them (units with “Mind Control Immunity” cannot be affected by Necromantic Aura).

    Dr19a
    The Dreadnought ability Fireproofing gives +60% Fire Protection and Lava Walking. It requires Forge Aprons. (was called “Lava Walking”, was giving +100 % Fire Protection and did not require Forge Aprons)

    GC35 also becomes Priority change.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Hiliadan.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Hiliadan.

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    #258885

    Hiliadan
    Member

    New priority changes:
    Dr21b
    Inject Mana Fuel is Once per battle and cannot be dispelled.

    Dr21c
    Inject Mana Fuel is Once per battle and can be dispelled.
    (lorewise, it is an injection of Mana or something similar so it is magic and things that dispel magic should work on it)

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Hiliadan.

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    #258982

    Hiliadan
    Member

    First change confirmed for v1.24:
    GC46
    Domains of XXX spells can be researched by Necromancer (were not displayed in the research book of Necromancer) and their non-morale bonus apply to Undead, Elementals and units of Magical Origin (these three types of units still do not start to “Like” the climate due to the spell) (was Undead, Elementals and units of Magical Origin do not benefit from the stat boost

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    #259018

    Hiliadan
    Member

    New priority changes:

    Fe01
    Fey Dwelling’s buildings:
    Buttercup Meadow (T1 building): 100 gold (was 150 gold) – same as Barracks
    Toadstool Ring (T2 building): 150 gold (unchanged) – 25 lower than War Hall
    Nightshade Hollow (T3 building): 250 gold (was 200 gold) – (and replace some gold by mana?) – 50 gold lower and 100 mana lower than the T3 racial building
    Unicorn Glade (unlocks Unicorn) costs 100 gold and is unlocked by Buttercup Meadow (was cost 150 gold and directly buildable)
    Nymph Pond (unlocks Nymph) costs 100 gold and is unlocked by Buttercup Meadow (was cost 150 gold and is unlocked by Fairy Charm)
    Aphrodisiac Flowers (2nd defensive building) is unlocked by Fairy Charm (was unlocked by Nymph Pond)

    Fe02
    Nymphs get +1 strength on Seduce and on Befriend Animal on Elite

    Fe03
    Unicorns get Healing on Elite

    Ar01
    Undead Archon Dwelling’s buildings:
    Graveyard (Infantry) costs 50 gold (was 100)
    Charnel House (Archer) costs 50 gold (was 100) – total cost of unlocking Infantry and Archer = 100, similar to Barracks
    Sigil of Awakening costs 50 gold and 25 mana (was 50 gold and 50 mana) – similar cost (75) to Shrine as it gives +10 mana/turn
    Obelisk of Undeath (gives Cursed to enemy units in domain) costs 75 gold and 25 mana (was 75 gold and 50 mana) – similar cost to racial defense building
    Barrow (Caster) costs 90 gold and 50 mana (was 100 gold and 50 mana) – can now be done in 2 turns with the base 70 production
    Haunted Vault (Wraith) is unlocked by Sigil of Awakening and Obelisk of Undead (was unlocked by Barrow, itself needing these 2 buildings) and cost 135 gold and 40 mana (was 160 gold and 40 mana) – similar to War Hall
    Mausoleum (Titan) costs 250 gold and 110 mana (was 250 gold and 75 mana)

    Ar02
    Chamber of Rite gives Heal Undead to all Supports in the domain

    Ar03
    Obelisk of Undeath gives all Undead in the domain Undeath Aura, which heal them 6 HP / strategic turn. Obelisk of Undeath requires Sigil of Awakening (was could be built directly) and contributes to unlocking Chamber of the Rite (which also requires the Barrow)

    Na01
    Serpent Hall (Slither) and Viper Fortress (Guardian) cost 65 gold and 50 mana each (was 75 gold and 50 mana) and Altar of the Great Mother (Matriarch) costs 170 gold and 75 mana (was 150 gold and 75 mana)

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    #259127

    Hiliadan
    Member

    New priority changes:
    Me01
    The Mermaid’s Cove can be built without pre-requisite (was: needs Deep Sea Trench). The Abyssal Ridge requires the Siren’s Rock and the Deep Sea Trench (was: needs Siren’s Rock, which needs Mermaid’s Cove, which needs Deep Sea Trench)

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    #259130

    Zaskow
    Member

    New priority changes:

    Wow! This is the first time when I liked all proposed changes.

    #264374

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Confirmed changes for v1.24:
    Dr19a
    The Dreadnought ability Fireproofing gives +60% Fire Protection and Lava Walking. It requires Forge Aprons. (was called “Lava Walking”, was giving +100 % Fire Protection and did not require Forge Aprons)

    Fe01
    Fey Dwelling’s buildings:
    Buttercup Meadow (T1 building): 100 gold (was 150 gold)
    Nightshade Hollow (T3 building): 250 gold (was 200 gold)
    Unicorn Glade (unlocks Unicorn) costs 100 gold and is unlocked by Buttercup Meadow (was cost 150 gold and directly buildable)
    Nymph Pond (unlocks Nymph) costs 100 gold and is unlocked by Buttercup Meadow (was cost 150 gold and is unlocked by Fairy Charm)
    Aphrodisiac Flowers (2nd defensive building) is unlocked by Fairy Charm (was unlocked by Nymph Pond)

    Ar01
    Undead Archon Dwelling’s buildings:
    Graveyard (Infantry) costs 50 gold (was 100)
    Charnel House (Archer) costs 50 gold (was 100)
    Sigil of Awakening costs 50 gold and 25 mana (was 50 gold and 50 mana)
    Obelisk of Undeath (gives Cursed to enemy units in domain) costs 75 gold and 25 mana (was 75 gold and 50 mana)
    Barrow (Caster) costs 90 gold and 50 mana (was 100 gold and 50 mana)
    Haunted Vault (Wraith) is unlocked by Sigil of Awakening and Obelisk of Undead (was unlocked by Barrow, itself needing these 2 buildings) and cost 135 gold and 40 mana (was 160 gold and 40 mana)
    Mausoleum (Titan) costs 250 gold and 110 mana (was 250 gold and 75 mana)

    Ar02
    Chamber of Rite gives Heal Undead to all Supports in the domain

    Ar03
    Obelisk of Undeath gives all Undead in the domain Undeath Aura, which heal them 6 HP / strategic turn. Obelisk of Undeath requires Sigil of Awakening (was could be built directly) and contributes to unlocking Chamber of the Rite (which also requires the Barrow)

    Me01
    The Mermaid’s Cove can be built without pre-requisite (was: needs Deep Sea Trench). The Abyssal Ridge requires the Siren’s Rock and the Deep Sea Trench (was: needs Siren’s Rock, which needs Whispering Rocks and Mermaid’s Cove, which needs Deep Sea Trench)

    Na01
    Serpent Hall and Viper Fortress cost 65 gold and 50 mana each (was 75 gold and 50 mana) and Altar of the Great Mother costs 170 gold and 75 mana (was 150 gold and 75 mana)

    GC26a
    Forbidden Sanctum no long have a defender set containing Nymphs and Shamans

    Or03
    Orc Impalers get “Impaling” (Impalers get a chance with each attack to immobilize the attacked unit) and cost +5 Gold

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    #264375

    Zaskow
    Member

    Orc Impalers get “Impaling” (Impalers get a chance with each attack to immobilize the attacked unit) and cost +5 Gold

    Strength?

    #264379

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Good question!

    I think everyone had in mind the Immobilize of Harpoon Thrower so I updated like this:

    Or03
    Orc Impalers get “Impaling” (Impalers have a 8 physical strength chance with each attack to immobilize the attacked unit for 2 rounds) and cost +5 Gold

    New priority changes:
    Ne22
    Animate Ruins costs 110 CP (was 60)

    So10
    Summon Fantastic Creature can be used Water hex (was only on land)

    Dr23
    Dreadnoughts get +5 gold/Village

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    #264383

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    If I may chime in here, since this is an ability I created (for my mod) – I made it strength 9, because I think it should be stronger than that of a Frostling HT; for one, Orcs are stronger, for two it’s melee effect.

    #264384

    Hiliadan
    Member

    If I may chime in here, since this is an ability I created (for my mod) – I made it strength 9, because I think it should be stronger than that of a Frostling HT; for one, Orcs are stronger, for two it’s melee effect.

    I actually considered making it strength 7. Unlike Throw Harpoon which can trigger max once per turn, this inflict could trigger three times per turn. I don’t think making it strength 9 would be reasonable for a T1. True it’s melee though so harder to put to good use. But I guess we should test first before adjusting the strength.

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    #264386

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I was just giving an info.

    For a couple of reasons the discussion of which I wouldn’t want to force upon you, I also gave Impaled the Impaired effect in addition to the Immobilized effect.

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