Balance of the Engineer in the balance mod

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This topic contains 38 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  gladis 3 weeks, 3 days ago.

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  • #279625

    raphaell666
    Member

    I think switching the tiers of Engineer and Musketeer makes sense and would make Dreadnought early game more interesting, but I’m torn because I really like Musketeers currently and would not really like to see them weaker. Does Dreadnought really need any Tier 1 units? Considering their theme of being “slow”, what about making both Engineers and Musketeers Tier 2?

    As an added minor suggestion, irrespective of what you decide to do, what about increasing the melee damage of Engineers? In terms of “in-game real logic”, I always found it kind of weird that Musketeers had more melee damage than Engineers, considering that Engineers literally wield a huge wrench and Musketeers hit their enemies in melee with the back of their Muskets.

    #279653

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Does Dreadnought really need any Tier 1 units? Considering their theme of being “slow”, what about making both Engineers and Musketeers Tier 2?

    Alright, Gladis also suggested that on the chat on the BF.
    So let’s propose also:

    E5. Produce Engineer is Tier II and costs 140 RP and Produce Musketeer is necessary to unlock it (was the opposite).
    Engineers are T2, have 45 HP, 11 defense, 9 resistance, costs 80 gold, 10 mana (was T1, 40 HP, 10 def, 8 res, 70 gold and 10 mana).

    For the melee damage of Engineers, I’m personally not convinced. Let’s see if others agree with you.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Hiliadan.

    The AoW3 Wiki, including a video library!
    Improve AoW3 with the balance mod (presentation video)
    The Battlefield.com/AoW3 the community website for AoW3

    #279668

    raphaell666
    Member

    Fair enough. But if the Engineers are promoted to T2, a melee damage increase would make even more sense, no? I am not used to AoW3 unit balancing. For reference, their current base melee damage is 6 physical, compared to Musketeer’s 10 physical.

    EDIT: Sorry, I think Musketeers is actually base 11 physical damage, with further upgrades from experience levels.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  raphaell666.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  raphaell666.
    #280044

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    The ingame situation is that Engineer is a T1 Irregular and the Musketeer a T2 Archer who – without help – can shoot, but then has to EITHER reload the weapon OR engage hand-to-hand as an ALTERNATIVE.

    There is no situation for a T1 irregular with 2 ranged attacks and the task to learn and later repair the heavy machines on the fly, where a MELEE damage increase would make the unit better in any way, because if there is one thing that unit doesn’t want to be it’s in a melee situation, except for finishing something off, and for that more damage is rarely necessary.

    If the Engineer is a T2 Irregular, the melee damage increase isn’t necessary either, because there will already be Musketeers (that early they make an impression), and the Engineer will simply reload them on the turn they fire the first time. After that, it may reload again or use Flash Bang or Blunderbuss (or the Field Medic ability I gave them; my Engineers are a bit mor expensive as well).

    #280045

    raphaell666
    Member

    Makes sense, thank you for the explanation.

    My idea was more something that I wanted to try, rather than a way to actually balance the unit, sorry for derailing the discussion. If you guys decide to buff the Engineer to a T2 unit, in my game I am now thinking about perhaps increasing the cooldown on the Blunderbuss and on the Flash Bang, and increasing their melee stats so that they have even more of a hybrid “irregular” role. But I am going off topic here as this is more of my personal taste and ideas rather than actual balance.

    Regardless, I think suggestion E5 makes the most sense, but E4 could also work, though Musketeers would be less resilient to going melee with higher tier units so we would be taking that away from them.

    #291316

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Opinions so far:

    E1. Engineers cost 60 gold and 10 mana (was 70 gold and 10 mana)
    For: Hiliadan
    Against:

    E2. Engineers do 5 melee damage and 7/8 physical/fire Fire Blunderbuss damage and costs 65 gold and 10 mana (was 70 gold and 10 mana)
    For: Zaskow, marcuspers, Hiliadan
    Against:

    E3. The extra cost due to extra abilities for Engineers is now 5 gold for Projectile Resistance for Dwarves (was 11), 5 gold for Sprint for Tigrans (was 10), 5 gold for Inflict Immolation for Draconians (was 10).
    For: Zaskow, marcuspers, Hiliadan
    Against:

    E4. Produce Engineer is Tier II and costs 140 RP, Produce Musketeer is Tier I and costs 60 RP (was the opposite).
    Engineers are T2, have 45 HP, 11 defense, 9 resistance, costs 80 gold, 10 mana (was T1, 40 HP, 10 def, 8 res, 70 gold and 10 mana).
    Musketeers are T1, have 36 HP, 10 defense, 8 resistance, costs 65 gold and 5 mana (was T2, 45 HP, 11 defense, 9 resistance, costs 80 gold and 10 mana).
    For: blackwill357, Fluksen, BBB, raphaell666, gladis, Hiliadan
    Against:

    E5. Produce Engineer is Tier II and costs 140 RP and Produce Musketeer is necessary to unlock it (was the opposite).
    Engineers are T2, have 45 HP, 11 defense, 9 resistance, costs 80 gold, 10 mana (was T1, 40 HP, 10 def, 8 res, 70 gold and 10 mana).
    For: raphaell666
    Against:

    The AoW3 Wiki, including a video library!
    Improve AoW3 with the balance mod (presentation video)
    The Battlefield.com/AoW3 the community website for AoW3

    #291334

    El_Lobo1986
    Member

    Cost reduction is most important imo. 65-70 ressources in total is fair I think.
    The 2nd thing should be the abilities. Repair machines at gold medal is too late because it’s not that easy to get engineers to gold medal and still they die very fast.

    I don’t like giving them additional active abilities because they already have a lot. Evolving into a t2 is a possibility to buff them too or giving them a passive skill which gives the stack fast embark for instance.

    #291563

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok I add this one who got support from 3 players:
    E6. Engineers get Emergency Repair at Veteran (was Elite)

    The AoW3 Wiki, including a video library!
    Improve AoW3 with the balance mod (presentation video)
    The Battlefield.com/AoW3 the community website for AoW3

    #291829

    gladis
    Member

    E6. Engineers get Emergency Repair at Veteran (was Elite)
    Against, because it would be too fast available. Like I mentioned: You could stick it to Master Guild. If a player really wants to go for a Engineer repairing tactic he can build a Master Guild. Maybe you could give them some sort of „Combat Repair Machine“ on Veteran which works like „Combat Healing“ and starts with a cooldown.

    E5. Produce Engineer is Tier II and costs 140 RP and Produce Musketeer is necessary to unlock it (was the opposite).
    Engineers are T2, have 45 HP, 11 defense, 9 resistance, costs 80 gold, 10 mana (was T1, 40 HP, 10 def, 8 res, 70 gold and 10 mana).
    For, but 15 mana

    E1. Engineers cost 60 gold and 10 mana (was 70 gold and 10 mana)
    Against

    E2. Engineers do 5 melee damage and 7/8 physical/fire Fire Blunderbuss damage and costs 65 gold and 10 mana (was 70 gold and 10 mana)
    For, if E1 doesn´t get supported.

    E3. The extra cost due to extra abilities for Engineers is now 5 gold for Projectile Resistance for Dwarves (was 11), 5 gold for Sprint for Tigrans (was 10), 5 gold for Inflict Immolation for Draconians (was 10).
    For

    /gladis

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