Dev Journal: New Disjuct & Spell Mechanics

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This topic contains 94 replies, has 47 voices, and was last updated by  Zathrendar 3 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #103919

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster
    #103920

    Ricminator
    Member

    Wow this sounds really cool

    #103926

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    Nice, I was hoping for a change in the disjunction mechanism.

    Grammar error in first image:
    “it’s integrity” should be “its integrity”.

    #103929

    Wakah-Chan
    Member

    I like the system since now dispelling is too easy. Maybe also throw in a possibility to attempt counter-dispelling with the leader using more effort inflicting the critical effect on the looser?

    #103930

    vfxrob
    Member

    Seems like a great idea!

    #103938

    esvath
    Member

    This is interesting. Finally, Battle of Spells!!!

    Please add a tech that increases spell integrity for Sorcerers, making them the master of arcane arts!

    #103940

    The more random/chance mechanics, the better.

    I love my low chance mind control and webbing touch and Smite and so forth.

    This will only add more excitement to the game and move it even further away from min/maxing, which is always great.

    #103941

    I imagine the new randomness factor is going to ruffle some feathers, especially in multiplayer, but this should definitely make the disjunct system more fun and flavorful.

    Random suggestion for related hero/leader abilities (acquired at level up):

    Warlord – Arcane Fortitude – Hero doesn’t suffer effects of critical failure when disjuncting.

    Sorcerer – Spell Ward – Caster’s spells are harder to disjunct

    Theocrat – Inquisitor – Enemy caster takes damage upon normal disjunct success.

    Rogue – Magic Trickster – Doesn’t suffer effects from enemy casters’ critical success, enemy hero takes damage instead.

    Archdruid – Natural Flow – Disjunct attempts cost 75% of target spell’s cp cost.

    Dreadnought – Mana Overload – Pouring additional mana into a disjunct attempt increases chance of critical success.

    #103942

    Arioch
    Member

    An excellent and much-needed addition to the spellcasting mechanics.

    #103943

    esvath
    Member

    I imagine the new randomness factor is going to ruffle some feathers, especially in multiplayer, but this should definitely make the disjunct system more fun and flavorful.

    Random suggestion for related hero/leader abilities (acquired at level up):

    Warlord – Arcane Fortitude – Hero doesn’t suffer effects of critical failure when disjuncting.

    Sorcerer – Spell Ward – Caster’s spells are harder to disjunct

    Theocrat – Inquisitor – Enemy caster takes damage upon normal disjunct success.

    Rogue – Magic Trickster – Doesn’t suffer effects from enemy casters’ critical success, enemy hero takes damage instead.

    Archdruid – Natural Flow – Disjunct attempts cost 75% of target spell’s cp cost.

    Dreadnought – Mana Overload – Pouring additional mana into a disjunct attempt increases chance of critical success.

    These can be researchable techs for leaders too!

    #103944

    Sorcerers and Archdruids should have higher spell integrity than the other classes as a default (while the sorcerer should be able to get an additional upgrade) because they are more reliant on mana/cp for production and in battle spells. They should have an advantage, rather than a disadvantage, when it comes to spell duels.

    In the alternative, you could just decrease summoning costs in cp and mana for sorcerers and archdruids.

    If dispel magic gets a failure chance, I’d suggest doing the two spells a turn thing where you have one general spell casting turn, and another that is only buffs/disbuffs. A failed dispel should also have some kind of impact, either inflicting “shocked” for 2 turns, losing some resistance/movepoints, or taking a little shock damage.

    #103947

    DadouXIII
    Member

    That’s what I like to see, more strategic depth added to the game 😀
    I hope more mechanics will also be added in the long run 🙂

    #103948

    LordTheRon
    Member

    This aounds really cool. Quite unique too. Like said a battle of spells and it should really deplete those endless manasupplies.

    #103949

    LordTheRon
    Member

    This sounds really cool. Quite unique too. Like said a battle of spells and it should really deplete those endless manasupplies.

    #103950

    Taykor
    Member

    Very interesting!
    I don’t know if there would be enough CP to Reinforce spells, but a little more hard disjunctions are welcome.

    #103951

    MartyD81
    Member

    Reminds me partially of the way disjuncting spells used to work in AOW:SM. The Reinforcement and the Greater Disjunction options sound like a nice and welcome addition to the disjunction mechanics, which seems a little simple and semi-finished ATM. In addition, the new system gives the player another possibility how to spend mana surpluses sensibly.
    Good to see you guys keep up your creative efforts to improve the game even further. Thumbs up!

    #103964

    danielvv1
    Member

    sounds awesome! it gets tiresome the AI investing ll its casting points into undoing your spells, and never casting much on their own. now, with failure chance, risks taken and some degree of control over those things for both sides, it’ll likely change.

    #103967

    Windscion
    Member

    I especially like the way you start with the ability to disjunct. I recently had a game where I gave up because a rogue cast a rebel spell on my capitol city and by the time I had managed to research disjunt, I had also managed to build granary/baths/hospital (in a city with 42 hammers/turn due to extreme unhappiness) to get city morale up to content (-175 morale). Plus I terraformed about 100 hexes to improve happiness. All because of the luck-of-the-draw research preventing me from researching disjunction.

    So yes, I am very pleased to hear this.

    #103969

    Bouh
    Member

    This will have deep impact on the game. It’s an interesting system, but I can’t say how it will change things yet. Hopefuly it will be for the best.

    #103973

    wapamingo
    Member

    this is such a welcome change. looking forward to it.

    #103978

    Ericridge
    Member

    Inb4 you take the AI’s throne city then the AI decides its a good idea to attempt to disjunct a mana fuel cell city enchantment off an village in middle of nowhere only for him to suffer an critical failure which brings the AI’s leader’s hp to zero sending him into the void and gives you his territory for free because just because the AI wants your fuel cell enchantment on a village in middle of nowhere gone xD

    #103991

    Hunter
    Member

    Sounds like a well thought out mechanic. Play testing will tell for sure.

    #103992

    terrahero
    Member

    To be entirely honest, i am quite concerned for the balance of the game if this goes live.

    There are certain combat spells that are incredibly powerful, practically a battle-winner. Something like Chaos Rift, that is an absolute must Disjunct.

    But now Disjunct can fail, and its possible that something like Chaos Rift persists during a battle, despite Disjunct. Or worst, my leader takes damage and gets stunned on top of Chaos Rift persisting.

    Its already a very binairy situation, where you must always make sure you have enough castingpoints to Disjunct such spells. But now, there is no guarentee it works and you must keep an even greater reserve of casting points for back up Disjuncts.
    Which is not that fun either, as it means not using castingpoints/mana on other things… just incase.

    #103999

    Taykor
    Member

    But now Disjunct can fail, and its possible that something like Chaos Rift persists during a battle, despite Disjunct.

    Which is awesome. At last Chaos Rift (maybe) would be comparable with Hellfire and Earthquake. 70 CP useless spell is nonsense.

    I still think that it should not be possible to disjunct city enchantment without line of sight on that city.

    #104009

    terrahero
    Member

    A Chaos Rift that is not disjuncted is far worst then those spells. Thats why its always disjuncted, because of how good it is. But thats just one example i used.

    The point is, there are global spells that absolutely shouldnt be so easy to counter because they arent that great, such as city enchants.
    But there are still a few global spells that are very powerful, game changing, game winning, that should be reliable to counter.
    Because when your counter fails, or worst it backfires, you might aswell forfeit.

    Ofcourse this could still be balanced in the system they are working on, by giving such spells a very low integrity.

    #104023

    Taykor
    Member

    A Chaos Rift that is not disjuncted is far worst then those spells. Thats why its always disjuncted, because of how good it is. But thats just one example i used.

    That spells couldn’t be disjuncted at all, because they are instant spells. And that is why they are useful, and CR is not in most important cases.

    The point is, there are global spells that absolutely shouldnt be so easy to counter because they arent that great, such as city enchants.

    My point is that all global spells absolutely shouldn’t be easy to counter. Especially high-cost, with high demand of research, ‘game changing’ spells. Otherwise there is no sense in them and it is better to summon another 3 horned gods or 6 serpents/spider queens.

    #104028

    Izanagi75
    Member

    Is still Diplomacy needed to disjunct a spell (even global spells of unknown Players)

    #104030

    terrahero
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>terrahero wrote:</div>
    A Chaos Rift that is not disjuncted is far worst then those spells. Thats why its always disjuncted, because of how good it is. But thats just one example i used.

    That spells couldn’t be disjuncted at all, because they are instant spells. And that is why they are useful, and CR is not in most important cases.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>terrahero wrote:</div>
    The point is, there are global spells that absolutely shouldnt be so easy to counter because they arent that great, such as city enchants.

    My point is that all global spells absolutely shouldn’t be easy to counter. Especially high-cost, with high demand of research, ‘game changing’ spells. Otherwise there is no sense in them and it is better to summon another 3 horned gods or 6 serpents/spider queens.

    Its not fun now either, where someone casts super-spell X and you must spend equal castingpoint to Disjunct it to avoid getting overwhelmed.
    But it beats the scenario where your only counter can fail, leaving you down in casting points and still facing overwhelming odds due to super-spell X.

    I dont like the scenario, where a single spell has such a massive impact that if your only counter fails you might aswell forfeit.
    If you have a problem with spells like Hellfire or Earthquake, then argue your case that these should get looked at instead of wanting to add to the list of game-winning spells.

    The reason a spell can only be cast once a turn, no matter how many heroes, was to avoid spells from single-handedly winning a fight.

    #104036

    Arizal
    Member

    I very much like this change. As a Sorcerer, I had disjunction only around turn 70 and found this frustrating (however I didn’t really know how to use that spell until recently).

    Maybe to mitigate the negative effects of a failure in disjunction/greater disjunction one could retrieve part of its casting points/mana, as if he didn’t went all the way with his spell but retracted in time. Even if he didn’t retract in time, he shouldn’t have to lose all of his casting points. Maybe also disjunction could be seen as one spell that can be casted alongside another one.

    #104039

    sindustry
    Member

    Global map change is awesome but i dont like the combat disjunction change really.

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