Development Update & Return of Development Journals

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This topic contains 218 replies, has 76 voices, and was last updated by  Ravenholme 3 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #102546

    Draxynnic
    Member

    1. There is a difference because of how the word has been used in the past. They carry different expectations and appear in different contexts. Have you ever heard about expansions as episodic content ? Games unfinished by design ? Have you ever heard about standalone DLC ?

    Starcraft 2 and Half-life 2, arguably Starcraft 2 (no Zerg and Protoss campaign on release, still waiting on the last – they get a by, though, because the WoL and HotS campaigns are bigger than some games’ full singleplayer experiences). A demo that includes scenarios that aren’t in the full game is arguably a standalone (and free) DLC – it contains the basic game files (as a demo would have to) but about the same amount of content as you’d expect from a DLC. The Starcraft and Warcraft 3 demos would be examples of that.

    Generally, though, the idea of a ‘standalone DLC’ is kinda absurd, since DLC is normally adding a small part to a larger full game – if you’re going to give someone the full game, you’re probably going to want to at least charge and expansion-pack-esque price for it. Personally, too, I’m a little wary of saying that standalone expansions are a move that inherently generates Good points, but that might be my inherent cynicism speaking.

    If you want to develop some new stuff for a game and don’t want to rip people off, why call it “DLC” ?

    Because despite some people’s knee-jerk reactions from what some companies – that didn’t exactly have great reputations to begin with – have done with it, it’s the accepted term.

    Trying to think of other games that are free to play or functionally okay even with pay to win elements, and I’m honestly drawing a blank.

    World of Tanks qualifies, I think – you’ll progress faster if you’re willing to spend real money, sure, but as of right now, there isn’t really anything you can buy with real money that will give you an advantage in a match that can’t also be bought with in-game currency (note: this wasn’t always the case). I think the only things that you have to buy with “gold” (the game’s version of credit for real-money payments) is additional storage space on the company servers, premium tanks*, and premium time (which gives additional experience and in-game currency from match results – this is part of how spending real money can let you progress faster).

    *Which generally aren’t as good as fully-upgraded tanks of the same level – there are a couple that I’m jealous of, but I don’t think they’re objectively better, just that they have their advantages. There are benefits to having one but they generally relate to progressing faster, not to having an advantage over other players in a match.

    #102548

    Fizzbitch
    Member

    The first new race (one with –ling in the name) is nearly complete with others in development.

    So we’ve got the possibility of Halflings or Frostlings. PLUS MORE.
    These could be, in order of likeliness:
    -The other ‘-Ling’ that is not nearly complete.
    -Tigrans
    -Archons/Undead (Or ‘Old Archons’ from the Shadow World and with them possibly other Shadow races).

    I highly doubt we will see a full undead race for the same reason we will unlikely see Archons returns: They already have units in the game, and it’s unlikely a race will be made with units from such seperate unit types.

    #102551

    Sorax
    Keymaster

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ravenholme wrote:</div>
    Expansions would do just the same though so your broken record repetition of “And it fragments the MP community” doesn’t really matter, that will happen regardless.

    DLC tends to be smaller than expansions, so it causes more severe fragmentation. This is in part because expansions were common in retail era, where you had to put a bit more in the box to make it worthwile. DLC became widespread in digital era, where unscrupulous publishers can divide game however they see if. And they do, if they think they can get away with it.

    Ever heard the phrase “90% of lawyers gives the rest bad reputation.” ? Are you sure there’s nothing about lawyer proffesion that attracts greedy bastards ?

    Getting real tired of this…
    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/expansion-vs-dlc/#post-57609

    You’ve made your point. No need to repeat yourself. Please have a look on our forum terms of use: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/please-follow-our-terms-of-use/
    * Don’t keep repeating the same arguments.

    Consider this post your second reminder. 3rd one will come with consequences.

    Regards,
    Sorax

    #102553

    DLC is a ‘Newspeak’ word invented to take more money from customers, and they cut games into tiny pieces, exactly like it was predicted by gamers when they were introduced on console about 10 years ago. They are evil.

    This is the future of the industry Bouh. Like it or not, I think most game designers will go down this path if they haven’t already done so. This is one of the repercussions of the advancement of technology and some of us welcome it. Now, our games can improve over a shorter period of time rather than waiting nearly a year or longer for a major expansion.

    You certainly have a rather strange way of interpreting the term ‘evil’. It might be better to use the phrase, ‘I don’t like it’ instead of saying that it is evil.

    If you are planning to continue playing computer games in the future, I’d suggest that you come to some sort of accomodation with the ‘devil’. I’m sure you bought expansions to your games before?

    #102563

    Stormwind
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bouh wrote:</div>
    DLC is a ‘Newspeak’ word invented to take more money from customers, and they cut games into tiny pieces, exactly like it was predicted by gamers when they were introduced on console about 10 years ago. They are evil.

    This is the future of the industry Bouh. Like it or not, I think most game designers will go down this path if they haven’t already done so. This is one of the repercussions of the advancement of technology and some of us welcome it. Now, our games can improve over a shorter period of time rather than waiting nearly a year or longer for a major expansion.

    You certainly have a rather strange way of interpreting the term ‘evil’. It might be better to use the phrase, ‘I don’t like it’ instead of saying that it is evil.

    If you are planning to continue playing computer games in the future, I’d suggest that you come to some sort of accomodation with the ‘devil’. I’m sure you bought expansions to your games before?

    I suggest using smaller words so your target audience can understand.

    'My Dad used to say 'always fight fire with fire', which is probably why he got thrown out of the fire brigade.'

    #102580

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Gray Stranger makes a valid point – Triumph could well hold back until they’ve got, say, 3 new races, 2 classes and an 8-scenario campaign, then release an expansion pack. But if they have a race ready to go before the rest, does it hurt to release it so players and mapmakers who opt in can use it for custom games?

    Would the fanatical anti-DLC people be content if Triumph were to say that once they have an expansion-level quantity of new content, they’d bundle it into an expansion? That would mean that if they held out for the expansion they’d lose nothing over a model that had no DLC, but those who are willing to DLC can get what’s ready earlier when it’s ready.

    #102581

    Did noone else see Sorax’s warning? Or am I alone in thinking it applies to the entire dlc discussion, even if it was one person who got it specifically.

    Anyway, I wonder, what do people want in a dlc/expansion/extracontent/call it what you will? Details please! E.G.:

    I, BBB, would like:
    2 new races, minimum (I’d love Haflings, Frostlings, Nomads, Tigrans and a mechanic that allows you to split your Elves in game, choosing Dark elf or High Elf, but I shall say ‘just’ 2 races for now;
    2 new classes (so we have 8*8. To be honest I am sturggling to think of credible new classes outside of Necromancer and Warlock/Demonlogist. I’d like for these 2 classes to make much greater use of death and population and blood magic as resources to power their economy and buff their troops etc, i.e. not be ‘death/demon flavoured’ versions of Sorc/Druid);
    more assymetry in the races (different buildings unlocking different units and effects, different races having varying units, mixing up the order that units are unlocked etc.);
    spillover production;
    a nerf to heal (in battle heal should be left alone, as you have to use your turn to use that, and damage scales quite quickly. I am referring to passive heal. If that is not nerfed, then allow other classes to get it earlier, e.g. Warlord, or allow Warlords to get a form of increased regeneration, to make up for their lesser creeping skills);

    I’m sure there’s much I have left out, but that will do for now.

    www.grababrew.weebly.com/

    #102586

    Ricminator
    Member

    How many classes would be possible in total? The current classes cover a lot of themes/playstyles, so personally I think that 3 maximum 4 classes are possible.

    Personally I’m looking forward to the new content, especially since I figured out how to buy it on steam without creditcard.

    #102589

    Bob5
    Member

    Did noone else see Sorax’s warning? Or am I alone in thinking it applies to the entire dlc discussion, even if it was one person who got it specifically.

    I figured it was about the entire dlc discussion as well, went on for almost two entire pages…

    Anyway, I wonder, what do people want in a dlc/expansion/extracontent/call it what you will? Details please! E.G.:

    I want to get a race with some other kind of unit as a racial T3, not just cavalry or infantry. Pikemen might not work so well due to competition from phalanx, but I’d like to see perhaps a T3 archer or a T3 support unit. I can see Frostlings getting a Frost Queen support as racial T3, just like in AoW1. Something about as bulky as a Shaman with stuff like:

    Artic Walking
    Frost Bolts
    Freezing Touch
    Artic Concealment
    Swimming
    Wetland Walking
    Path of Frost
    Inflict Frostbite at bronze
    Inflict Freezing Cold at silver
    Frost Aura at gold

    Combine with artic empire to get them to move fast and unseen. Unlike Shaman she also gets the debuffs at medals, but she doesn’t get the extreme mobility of the shaman (lacking forestry, mountaineering, and cave crawling).

    I could be completely wrong and they just get Mammoth riders as T3, but I’d like to have a race to get a really good racial T3 for Sorcerers.

    #102596

    Didymus1492
    Member

    A T3 support racial seems highly unlikely. Nope, I expect a T2 support racial like everyone else has, and a T3 bruiser or flying unit of some type. I wouldn’t mind a T3 with some form of ranged attack, a la Stone Giant, as long as it was similarly restricted — i.e., uses 3 action points.

    Having a racial T3 with monster or giant status would be different, and potentially slightly imbalanced. That may sound unlikely, but effects that target cavalry and infantry units are different from those that effect monsters/giants. The latter come from heroes and leaders, not units. That’s an important distinction — maybe. Still, classes already have monster/giant units, so it isn’t likely to break anything. It’s just that those (mostly) take more time to field than racial T3s (not so with Arch Druids who have T1 monster summons).

    #102601

    Gyor
    Member

    Actually I see Frost Witch as t2, her traditional frost walk ability wouldn’t be in I think, so really she’s be a cold storm sister basically. Maybe a minor twist.

    Now the Tigrans Mystic, I could see as a racial t3 support unit, I remember she had all kinds of different magic tricks.

    #102607

    Fizzbitch
    Member

    2 extra races & 2 classes would seem good enough for DLC.

    Personally I like DLC. They give the developers time to create a better quality game instead of trying to fit everything in at launch. Developers have the time to add in extra content later at a better quality of the original + the extra content. What is not to like about that?

    Plus developers could’ve gotten ideas from players when the game was already active, (A prime example of this would be Grifball in Halo 3, with the map Foundry DLC) and add interesting things you wouldn’t have expected from the original point of view.

    Also, Frostlings and Tigrans as the 2 new races would also make the most sense from the terrain types where no race is yet effective on (arctic and volcanic). I really hope the units are more diversified in these races. That is what I loved about the AoW:SM especially: How diversed each race played. I suppose you have that now with classes, but it’s not really the same.

    #102659

    b0rsuk
    Member

    You’ve made your point. No need to repeat yourself. Please have a look on our forum terms of use: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/please-follow-our-terms-of-use/
    * Don’t keep repeating the same arguments.

    You are repeating yourself.

    #102660

    DadouXIII
    Member

    I’m itching for new info 😛

    #102679

    Bob5
    Member

    Actually I see Frost Witch as t2, her traditional frost walk ability wouldn’t be in I think, so really she’s be a cold storm sister basically. Maybe a minor twist.

    Now the Tigrans Mystic, I could see as a racial t3 support unit, I remember she had all kinds of different magic tricks.

    I guess Frost queen could also be a sort of frost version of the storm sister, although I think they’ll keep path of frost and snow concealment on her. Path of frost can after all also be a liability, as it means you can’t really scout unseen with it in enemy territory. The trail of snow reveals exactly where you went. If Artic walking starts working in tactical though, then it’d be amazing to support fellow frostlings if your party is attacked in the open, as the battle then always takes place on snow.

    #102688

    NEHZ
    Member

    Actually I see Frost Witch as t2, her traditional frost walk ability wouldn’t be in I think, so really she’s be a cold storm sister basically. Maybe a minor twist.

    A tier3 support would set the race apart from others. The list Bob5 gave is impressive even without the path of frost. Add some decent stats, perhaps true sight, move one of the inflicts to default and I’d be ready to shell out the gold required for one of these.

    To be honest I am struggling to think of credible new classes outside of Necromancer and Warlock/Demonlogist.

    I can think of a couple with unique gameplay that should easily be able to stand toe to toe with the others:
    The Fisherman, The Baker, The Lawyer, athla, a star.

    The upcoming update should include Steam Workshop support and Cloud Saves. This should make it easier for you to exchange user made scenarios and manage save games across multiple computers.

    Nice. Can the cloud pave the way for multiplayer where the players aren’t online at the same time?

    #102689

    NEHZ
    Member

    sorry: double post

    #102720

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    I am seeing some trouble regarding the frost queen as a frostling racial unit.
    Correct me if I am wrong but aren’t the frost queens actually no frostlings but rather magical beings who have flocked to the sides of frostlings much like yetis have?
    If this is so they would not fit into the current system that allows only true racial units to be built in cities.

    This aside, I would support the idea to have racial t3’s that are not infantry or cavalry. In the case of frostlings I would prefer an archer type … something original … like, say, the Blizzard Ninja. This unit would have good defensive skills, including Dodge and Parry and Icicles, a unique sort of ranged attack that can trigger up to 5 times. For Halflings I would like to see a support t3, like the Adventurer I introduced in another thread.

    #102725

    Garresh
    Member

    While that is true, the frost witches are pretty vital to the frostling racial identity, and iirc they actually do interbreed with frostlings. Aren’t they a separate species that are dependent on frostling males to reproduce since they’re all female?

    #102734

    Didymus1492
    Member

    If they want frostlings to have Yeti or Frost Queen units, I for one fail to see this as a problem. There is ample precendent in the series.

    #102735

    High Elven storm sisters arnt that far of a stretch from frost queens are they? I dont remember the lore for them but im sure they themselves or some equivalent of that magical order can be used (as so much time has passed after all)

    🙂

    #102760

    Garresh
    Member

    Actually yes, frost witches are a different species. Its complex though because they have a symbiotic relationship.

    #102765

    Gyor
    Member

    When I compared Frost Witches with Storm sisters I meant more in function then in Lore, as in freeze/stunning enemies and elemental damage/resistance.

    #102766

    Gyor
    Member

    Anyone else curious about the new victory conditions? I wonder what they are?

    #102767

    wingren013
    Member

    Probably a king of the hill type thing or maybe gathering stuff to cast a big spell

    #102770

    funkybudda
    Member

    Anyone know if the Mac version will be compatible with Retina display?

    #102772

    wingren013
    Member

    Retina display isn’t really a software thing, its a screen thing, it just means that the devices screen has twice as many pixels per inch. As long as the game supports the resolution up to the adjusted level you should be fine.

    #102818

    vfxrob
    Member

    The suspense!!!

    Pretty excited to see whats coming up!

    Im highly confident its halflings!
    A – it was the highest voted one on the thread poll,
    B – They had a huge contest not to long ago about the background to the halflings
    C – And most importantly gypsy woman said so.

    She also said Antlings will be coming, its a thing, just you wait…

    #102821

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Are you sure she didn’t say Kharaghlings? Absolutely, positively, beyond-all-reasonable-or-unreasonable-doubt sure?

    #102885

    C – And most importantly gypsy woman said so.

    She also said Antlings will be coming, its a thing, just you wait…

    LOL i will hold you and your gypsy woman to that Rob 😛

    🙂

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