Enviroment effect on Combat

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Enviroment effect on Combat

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This topic contains 37 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Tazarbil 5 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #1159

    Brother JO
    Member

    An idea just popped in my head:

    “Why doesn’t the place where combat takes doesn’t have any effect on combat?” I do not mean trees,rocks and other obstacles.I mean the enviroment.

    *If combat takes place in cold and snowy enviroment fire spells should do less damage and burning effects should take less turns and deal less damage or not getting burn effect at all since its very easy to put out a fire on yourself snowy weather.

    Ice based spells and attacks should also deal more damage in cold enviroment.With these effects someone might think again attacking frostlings in their enviroment.

    *And in desert enviroment fire-based attacks and spells should deal more damage and should have higher chance to burn units.And cold-based attacks and spells should be weaker and frozen effect should be 1 turn instead of 3 turns.

    *In forests elves can have some guerilla-like advantage decreased MP cost and maybe no retalation when escaping from enemy unit?

    *And in underground air-based spells maybe less effective?Because underground is not directly connected to atmosphere so atmospheric events doesn’t really have an effect in underground.

    Players can use this to their strategical advantage and can bring more depth to game.

    Another idea: Maybe we can have weather before battle takes place? Just like in Total war series?

    #1173

    Brother JO
    Member

    your ideas on this suggestion?

    #1205

    TheDio
    Member

    Well…we have to find a balance between complicated, fun and dumbed down. Battlefields already have effect on races and battles. Units move slower in snow, elves have concealment in grass etc etc. about the spells. Well …i do not really know how magic works. You see..if i create magic by fire..it’s not the same as using a match. Magical fire may not be affected by cold if i’m a strong wizard. maybe a water spell or an ice spell would affect it..but i’m not sure..depends on the universe really. But i feel that battlefields in AOW :Sm did have an important role, without yet creating an “uneven ” match

    #1208

    Brother JO
    Member

    Yeah snow and swamps slow down the units , but that’s nearly the all of it other than shadow terrain which made units 2x faster.But these things were so unimportant that you nearly don’t care where you fight at all.

    But if terrain had an effect on elemental damages like fire,water,air etc. you would surely think again attacking frostlings in snow.But this can work vice versa ; if you’re frostling you might think again battling in deserts and be more cautious and play more strategically, trying to lure your enemies where you have the advantage.

    #1272

    TheDio
    Member

    Well i wouldn’t attack frostling in snow because they have bonus defence due to concealment and are faster.

    #1276

    Tomipapa
    Member

    And how do you conquer the frostling capital its domain if they have so great advantages on snow? Especially the AI love to deffend its capital with 20-25 units+plus stronger spells so have fun conquering the snow buffed frostlings 😀

    #1284

    TheDio
    Member

    Yeh exactly Tomipapa. We should keep the advantages at a certain “level” so that it won’t ruin the balance of th game, yet it will contribute to it’s strategy

    #1287

    I think it’s a brilliant idea. I don’t know how well it could be implemented though…

     

    Here’s another one-battlefield concealment, until the unit actually attacks. Might be unbalanced though.

    #1331

    Brother JO
    Member

    Of course ,  the bonuses and the handicaps should be not so big to actually make a race overpowered in their terrain.But just making the more advantageous not very big advantage but a considerable advantage.

    And we dont know how improved the AI is now.AI might not pull all his armies to his capital and leave the other cities un-protected.

    #1537

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster

    Thanks for the suggestions. Functionally, these type of bonuses are very easy to add.  The tricky part is keeping bonuses and penalties transparent to players – Its easy to swamp ability lists with little modifiers… this will result in people not really caring about them or feeling overwhelmed.

    Relating to this:  We did add cool combat rules like flanking which adds to tactical possibilities in nearly all battles. Also added are combat previews appearing on mouse-over of a potential target.  They illustrate possible Damage Range, % to hit for abilities, and the bonuses and penalties (e.g. Dragon Slaying, Flanking, Block Projectiles) kick in for any kind of attack in TC.  Saves a lot of time of manually comparing character sheets.

    #1544

    leomund
    Member

    Re; conquering snow buffed frostings – hopefully some global /map-based spells (e.g.  “Global Warming”) will melt the buggers out of their ice caves.  Might make these types of spells more useful as well.

    I felt like some of those city impacting spells weren’t damaging enough in AOW:SM.  There were global spells in Dominions that were so dreadful – the whole world would attack you if you cast them, like Utterdark.

    #1545

    Tomipapa
    Member

    Awesome news Thank You! Just a quick question. Normal attacks(from a swordman ect.)  also have chance to hit value or only the abilities?

    #1549

    LegioIX
    Member

    Spells / Abilities affected by weather and/or terrain abilities sounds pretty cool.

    ..in reply to Lennart’s post [#1537]

    Thanks for the suggestions. Functionally, these type of bonuses are very easy to add. The tricky part is keeping bonuses and penalties transparent to players – Its easy to swamp ability lists with little modifiers… this will result in people not really caring about them or feeling overwhelmed.”

    I think it wouldn’t make the game unnecessary complex or anything. It should be fairly easy to understand the terrain mechanics. Example: Fire based spells do 15% less damage on Glacial terrain etc. Tooltips and the mentioned combat preview could take care of the “learning phase” pretty easily.

    It’s just a modifier afterall, and people would get used to it in a fairly short time IMHO. These kinds of little details in a game adds a lot to diversity & enhances the gameplay itself, while it also adds a lot to the tactical depth of the game, which is very important.

    #1556

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster

    The attack system has been changed to avoid the –  in dev team’s opinion – abundant misses for regular attacks in the previous games. It also makes more sense with entire regiments clashing now,  its not an old school D&D game where a guy takes a single swing.  Added benefit is that it makes lower level units more useful, but there’s still a healthy damage fall off curve.   Of course we still have damage protections and immunities.

    For special attacks we have added the option to add effects on a target’s successful saving rolls.  E.g. a failed dominate could still stun or damage the target unit.

    #1562

    Tomipapa
    Member

    Thank You for the answer Lennart!

    I undertand your reasons but i have to admit in AoW the most epic moments of the battle was when my little halfing slinger finally hit that dragon after 3 miss 🙂 I have a worry  if units always hit then it will end with a “who strike first will win” situation 🙁

    #1570

    Brother JO
    Member

    Thanks for the answer 🙂

    Thanks for the suggestions. Functionally, these type of bonuses are very easy to add.  The tricky part is keeping bonuses and penalties transparent to players – Its easy to swamp ability lists with little modifiers… this will result in people not really caring about them or feeling overwhelmed.

    I don’t think it is that hard to find the middle with terrain effects.If we are going to have a beta , players can test these terrain effects and tell you if they are too overwhelmed or didn’t feel the effects.You can always remove the terrain effects if you find it unbalanced.But without trying it out , we may never know.

    The attack system has been changed to avoid the –  in dev team’s opinion – abundant misses for regular attacks in the previous games. It also makes more sense with entire regiments clashing now,  its not an old school D&D game where a guy takes a single swing.  Added benefit is that it makes lower level units more useful, but there’s still a healthy damage fall off curve.   Of course we still have damage protections and immunities.

    Ouch! I hope we are not going to see OP archers behind the safe walls.In Aow2 I remember destroying twice as much army in a city while I have only barracks archers and maybe 1 swordsman and enemy having champion tier units + flying/wall climbing units and even when he has hero.

    For special attacks we have added the option to add effects on a target’s successful saving rolls.  E.g. a failed dominate could still stun or damage the target unit.

    I’m glad to hear that failed special attacks still might have some effects on enemy unit. 🙂

     

    Edit:Rather than writing 2nd comment I edited this post 😛

    #1573

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster

    Note: not saying there are *no* environmental unit effects, just saying we need to keep them sane and transparent to users

    #1576

    Tomipapa
    Member

    And the damage  still random or its also fixed now?

    #1577

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster

    damage the result of attack vs defence with a bell curve like randomization applied.

    #1578

    vpalmer
    Member

    “just saying we need to keep them sane and transparent to users”

    units with frozen/corrupted/life terrain after them were like from some tale story – soatmospherical, very love them =)

    #1581

    Tomipapa
    Member

    At least the damage still has some randomness 🙂

    Thank You Lennart!

    #1582

    units with frozen/corrupted/life terrain after them were like from some tale story – soatmospherical, very love them =)

    The Groke? 😉

    #1586

    vpalmer
    Member

    “The Groke?”

    i’m frostlings adept – so answer is: frost witch =) – she remainds me fairy tale of H.C. Andersen

    #1668

    Love the idea of failed special ability rolls having secondary effects.

    #1670

    LegioIX
    Member

    re #1556 to Lennart:

    “The attack system has been changed to avoid the – in dev team’s opinion – abundant misses for regular attacks in the previous games. It also makes more sense with entire regiments clashing now, its not an old school D&D game where a guy takes a single swing. “

    This looks absolutely fine and logical as well. It would make no sense if a regiment would “miss” afterall.

    #1716

    bam65
    Member

    So if there are no misses there won’t be an attack skill anymore?

    #1838

    LegioIX
    Member

    Well since the old system was like this: “Attack is matched against target’s defence to determine whether a hit was scored”, I guess attack and defence stats in AoW3 will indicate the unit’s physical dmg and mitigation for physical damage values.

    #1840

    Tomipapa
    Member

    What LegioIX said

    Im curious how much will be the maximum damage bonus and damage reduction. This system only works well with larger base damage values(much larger than what we had in AoW or AoW 2).

    #1844

    Brother JO
    Member

    Well , while it would be odd if regiments would miss ; we still we have Ogres,Dragons and other badass creatures.And while regiment shouldn’t miss much, it would still make sense if they miss.In real battles not all arrows in archer volleys hit their targets.Actually many of the arrows miss their targets.

    And it would make sense if archer regiment misses while attacking a dragon.They were recruited peasants and get basic training , at best mediocre.(except for elves :P) They are no marksman at all unless they’re veterans. Even if they were marksman still dragon can always dodge some of the arrows.And of course there is a chance that they will not hit “Weak Spot” and will be reflected by dragons harder-than-stone scales.

    “The attack system has been changed to avoid the – in dev team’s opinion – abundant misses for regular attacks in the previous games. It also makes more sense with entire regiments clashing now, its not an old school D&D game where a guy takes a single swing. “

    And Lennart said that “The attack system has been changed to avoid the abundant misses for regular attacks in the previous games.” not all the misses.So we can expect that units still miss.

    #1847

    Tomipapa
    Member

    I dont think so. Regiments are purely visual things they counted as one unit.Because of this there are only 2 option:all the figures are hit or all miss. You cant dispart them because they are one unit. Only abilities can miss so no regular attack miss will be in the game.

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