How to make your Sovereign stronger than t4 units?

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Nerdfish 2 weeks, 4 days ago.

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  • #257423

    roboemperor
    Member

    They always seem to do crap damage and have pathetic survivability even if I max out their defenses through equipment and level up. As a result I’ve been just keeping them way, way back and just cast spells or use their abilities.

    Is there a way to turn your Sovereign into a super t4 unit? I know necromancer Sovereign can be decently strong with invoke death, stacked life steal, and undying, but they still fall too quickly a T4, or several T3s.

    #257425

    Gloweye
    Member

    Items and resistances. You have to get lucky with the right site results, tho.

    #257428

    Indrid
    Member

    I always play with Hero Resurgence on as I find their ability to die in a flash very frustrating. They start with 55HP, barely more than a T1 unit!

    Makes them feel much more worthy of the title Hero for me.

    #257429

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Don’t you think that it’s your task as a player to make sure your heroes do NOT die in a flash? You want to develop the guys, that’s part of the fun. If they’d smash everything right at start, where was the challenge?

    #257431

    roboemperor
    Member

    Problem here is though, even after fully developing the guys they die in a flash.

    I’ve fully equipped a sovereign with +def and +res gear from the arcane forge, with life steal and tireless. I’ve spent points on their health, defense, and resistance until the upgrade points are 6+ to invest. Yet despite all this they still die in a flash to T3s and T4s. I’m not talking about the crazy T4s like Shrine of Smiting, I’m talking about Manticores and T3 Warbreeds being too much of a match for this max defense sovereign.

    #257439

    Gloweye
    Member

    Forge stuff is weaker than the good stuff you can find in the treasure sites.

    You’re probably not gonna be able to melee 1v1 them that easily, just by forging stuff. If you find stuff, however….it’s possible to become literally immortal by maxing out your resistances.

    There’s 2 items in the game that give 40% physical protection. There’s also an armor that gives 60% protection to every other element. If you wanna live, try protections over def/resistance.

    #257442

    Nerdfish
    Member

    The forge give you many options. Invest some skill points in offense / defense, and forge yourself stasis shield / forest aura and weapon with life stealing. Tireless and healing item helps too.
    Ranged units and spells will eventually kill you. But in many cases you can just stand in a city gate and hold off an entire army while laughing maniacally to yourself.

    #257454

    Indrid
    Member

    Don’t you think that it’s your task as a player to make sure your heroes do NOT die in a flash? You want to develop the guys, that’s part of the fun. If they’d smash everything right at start, where was the challenge?

    Yes, you can play them purely as cowardly backline casters/support and keep them alive, as I did many times before the option was introduced. That’s just not fun for me. I want the option to make a badass melee hero that can hold their own without being lucky with item drops. Losing your hero in battle is not exactly a good thing and enemy heroes will also have Resurgence.

    #257455

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Don’t you think that it’s your task as a player to make sure your heroes do NOT die in a flash? You want to develop the guys, that’s part of the fun. If they’d smash everything right at start, where was the challenge?

    Yes, you can play them purely as cowardly backline casters/support and keep them alive, as I did many times before the option was introduced. That’s just not fun for me. I want the option to make a badass melee hero that can hold their own without being lucky with item drops. Losing your hero in battle is not exactly a good thing and enemy heroes will also have Resurgence.

    I’d replay, playing with resurgence is the cowardly play, COVERING THE HERO’S ASS is something else entirely than playing cowardly or using them only as support. Losing your hero in battle is not exactly a good thing INDEED, but, you know, if no untoward things COULD happen, where was the challenge?

    There are many ways to make a melee fighter out of a hero. Theos can use a Martyr for example (or Frostlings a Guard). You can boost them with a spell, and there are a lot of usefull hero upgrades that will help – but of course not all heroes are equally prepared to go hand to hand. I mean, why have a LONGBOW or have a casting advantage when you want to melee?
    There is also the Resurrect Hero spell for calling a dead hero back.

    In any case and no matter what, nothing is foolproof, since you may become webbed, entangled, dominated, frozen, stunned plus getting debuffed (for example, even with 100% Blight Protection, Weakening Strike will make you vulnerable against Blight).
    Also, you cannot excel in all or even most damage channels in melee attack. You may have a couple in addition to your main with a few points, but you still will encounter troops your melee hero won’t do much damage against.

    #257521

    notme
    Member

    Try Epic Heroes mod:
    It doubles upgrade points per gained level, but each level takes 2x more XP to level up.

    By the way resurgence works only when winning battles.
    I was abusing that with Exalted (or some other units with it) spam :p

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by  notme.
    #257586

    Galbias
    Member

    I had a Warlord that wasn’t super high level wallop a Manticore Rider in a fight thanks to good equipment, Martial Arts, and War Cry. Honestly though, they’re squishy enough that I feel like enabling Resurgence on Heroes is best to avoid headaches if you want to use them for anything besides mages or ranged/support, which kind of tilts hero selection in favor of some (Archdruid, Sorcerer) and against others (Warlord). That’s also something that can easily be abused if you want to, but oh well.

    #257587

    Gloweye
    Member

    If you’re any kind of new to the game, I think it’s good to get resurgence on your heroes.

    However, once you got the battle mechanics down a bit, you should just protect them. It’s not that hard.

    #257588

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    They are not squishy. It’s just that when you commit a unit, it’s flankable (that’s why Total Awareness is so cool). And flankable means, you’ll end up dead faster than you can think, if you don’t position your units careful, because the AI DOES flank you with a vengeance, and especially Heroes, since they are high-priority targets.

    Which means, your hero may have good defense, War Cry and Martial Arts and deliver 3 devastating hits with relatively low retaliation to a T4, looking good – but then it’s the AI’s turn and after 3 flanking attacks seeing your hero turn around helplessly, the hero suddenly ends up dead, and you start cursing.

    So what you need to do when you want heroes to use in melee is COVERING THEIR BACK! So that they cannot get flanked. The only hero that can get Total Awareness, by the way, is Rogue, at Level 11 for 10 UP. That makes is a rather specific solution for the problem.

    However – that’s only ONE problem here. Another one is, even if you do cover your Hero’s ass, if you start the turn adjacent to an opponent, your options are severely limited (as maybe your action points as well, since you may had retaliation(s) and/or oportunity hits). Keep in mind that the Charge bonus is quite high, but it needs you to move at least 3 Hexes – so that needs planning, yet again.

    Obviously, Sprint and Tireless are the abilities to have to avoid that particular impasse.

    All that means, using Heroes from a distance (as Archers, Supports and Casters) has the advantage of having said distance between the hero and the opposition. More distance equals less need to cover the hero’s back and in general more freedom to act.

    The crux here is, that it does make sense to be able to use your heroes in every role, depending on which is needed for them to fill in any particular battle. I’ve been known to voluntarily sacrifice a hero in the knowledge that I would be able to resurrect her with the Resurrect Hero avatar spell in order to win a battle involving two Gold Dragons (only to lose her because I had forgotten that I was over the allowed max number of heroes after the surrender of an AI). You CAN use heroes for everything you want to, but you have to play accordingly when you do.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by  Jolly Joker.
    #258217

    Nerdfish
    Member

    As a dreadnought leader, I tend to send all my time reloading cannons.
    But that gets very boring fast.
    That’s why my leader tend to be melee build just in case something runs into melee range to try to shut the cannon / juggernaut down. The annoying manticore or dragon gets a nasty surprise in the form of an angry avatar hitting them in the face with a sword.
    lifedrain and defensive strike is a nasty combination because you can use that to turn a powerful melee unit around so your ranged units / heroes can finish them off. On top that, once you do it your enemy can’t flank you 😀

    Best of luck ! Just be careful because if you try to cast spells in a melee, you WILL get flanked.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Nerdfish.
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