Keeping low-level units relevant

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Keeping low-level units relevant

Tagged: 

This topic contains 103 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by  Asmodeus 2 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 12 posts - 91 through 102 (of 102 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #157036

    Bouh
    Member

    Suddenly they are respectable, still inferior to the T 2 infantry but less pathetic.

    Do you remember there’s a price attached to units you need to pay to produce it ? And then, there is another one, you pay it each day, and you pay more for a T2 unit than for a T1 one.

    #157095

    Astraflame
    Member

    Bouh, thats 5 more hp , one def , t2 are even then superior, not just stats but far better start abilities and abilities with medals.
    The point is improving the infantry, toughness is a logical focus point, i know you are an extremely conservative fellow and this is indeed a buff.
    The second point was to not buff them right away, with gold investment and time so they progressively improve.

    Intended as a buff, because infantry is behind archet/pike.

    #157098

    Astraflame
    Member

    Look at the berserker if you want to compare, t1 have bleeding wounds on gold.
    Berserker get tireless and starts with charge and cavalry stats, gets double hp from levels, it is more than worth the double upkeep price.
    Suddenly 5hp from 175 gold and 1 def is going to put the balance at risk? Please …

    T2 rests safe, the buff was intended to make the infantry a little more viable and last a little longer in the frontline.

    #157148

    SaintTodd
    Member

    I think infantry/pikemen is quite a bad pairing, i maybe wrong though.

    Most of the time, i use pikemen when i play defensively in battle, they are a good pairing with long range unit (archer or support).

    So it depends on army composition if i decide to mix units in a stack/army.

    Somehow if my stack is more melee oriented, that’s when infantry start to shine. However i never try to heavily use T1 infantry in my games so far, unless i’m theocrat, its T1 infantry is so wonderful if used right.

    To sum it up, i rarely pair pikemen with infantry except when it’s the starting army i get at the start of the game, for me it’s more dependant on which class i use, well some specific class seems destined to use infantry more than the other.

    Anyway, about T1 pikemen vs T1 infantry usage, i think pikemen before the update that give them pike square is worth more or less as infantry, what make them very useful now is that update, pikemen more or less is in a fine balance right now.

    I’m confused, why would the Theocrats use t1 infantry when he has access to one of the best infantry units in the game? The Crusader is fairly cheap, and when used defensively, can go toe to toe with most t3s.

    I am Adam Evil, I'm not really evil, am I?

    #157150

    Brandon_354
    Member

    I’m confused, why would the Theocrats use t1 infantry when he has access to one of the best infantry units in the game? The Crusader is fairly cheap, and when used defensively, can go toe to toe with most t3s

    I think he might mean martyrs even though they are irregulars.

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    #157514

    Teehon
    Member

    I believe making units outright stronger is a wrong way to do it – t1 should not be Powerful but they should be highly Useful.
    I think the way Sorcerer keeps his supports useful is a good example – they don’t get stronger stats, but get new abilities which, in turn, keep them useful and give them new ways to shine in Tactical battles.

    My stories: Writings of The Noin
    My Mod: Noin's Mod

    #157573

    zlefin
    Member

    The more we look at this, the more it seems like the problem is just that the tier 1 swordsman units are slightly underpowered. They’re only passable when everything is at tier 1, and they tend to get weaker later, since they don’t have the superbonus pikes have vs some things; and melee in general has a harder time fighting higher tier units than ranged does.
    The base irregulars also tend to be useless later on, though that’s more intended as they’re kind of an early militia unit, that mostly gets outshined by the other tier 1 units, though at least often providing some useful capability (like early elemental damage).

    #157581

    Althea
    Member

    I’m confused, why would the Theocrats use t1 infantry when he has access to one of the best infantry units in the game? The Crusader is fairly cheap, and when used defensively, can go toe to toe with most t3s.

    T1 is useful to guard cities if there are at least 1 shrine of smiting. Though i recommend 2 shrines.

    Theocrat city defended by shrines is very tough to breach, unless your opponent is dreadnought or archdruid who love to rust strike, but generally two shrine supported by lots of T1 infantry and martyr and T2 support is very hard to defeat except by those two.

    Of course you can use crusader which is indeed better in fighting ability. But, if the enemy won’t have a chance to melee you because getting turned to dust by the shrine’s shot, why you bother with stronger infantry which is more costly, especially the upkeep. Two T1 infantry will boost the shrine damage more than One Crusader (which is a T2 infantry) for the same upkeep cost.

    Two T1 infantry will provide the same combat ability as T2 crusader in city defense, better if boosted by buff/debuff like holy war, armageddon, mark of heretic, bane of unatural etc.

    Theocrat economy is so weak if you compare its economy with the cost to build its many infrastructure and military and to pay its military upkeep, perhaps its economy is even the weakest out of all classes.

    As theocrat, you can’t afford to use the same unit for all task, if there are a cheaper alternative which produce the same result as the more expensive one, why not use the cheaper one.

    Of course all this depends on map settings and the opponent you face. But if you use settlers start, no independent cities, city founding on, you need to be more efficient with your gold than if you use default map settings. This is the settings where those T1 start to shine. Even irregulars are useful.

    Against human player, it is quite similar if the settings is the same.

    #157610

    Fluks
    Member

    I agree with those who stated that T1 units are still useful in the end game. With the upcoming expansion it seems they are getting even stronger. So no worries, Triumph has done a wonderful job so far, lets wait for the upcoming dlc/patch and hope that this thread will be redundant afterwards 🙂

    #249197

    HjAa
    Member

    Awaking this old thread. Is there any way of implementing production of multiple t1 unit per turn? Has any mod done this? Let’s say for example that you have 100 production and would like to produce two 50g units on your turn. I think this would help low level units become more viable later on, especially with mods like Racial Heritage, where the low level units will get additional bonuses.

    #249198

    Gloweye
    Member

    Not possible with modding

    #280205

    Asmodeus
    Member

    I am against production overflow (even drones need vacation), but not against some kind of partial merchandise refund. Y’know, just a few $ to reflect your actual $uperior productivene$$

Viewing 12 posts - 91 through 102 (of 102 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.