Necromancer Heroes keeping empire abilities after surrender

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Necromancer Heroes keeping empire abilities after surrender

This topic contains 5 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Jolly Joker 7 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #271162

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    There are a couple of researchable empire upgrades that influence heroes as well, for example the AD’s Favored Enemy, the Warlord’s Thoroughbred Mounts and Necromancer’s Harbinger’s of Death. What I know for fact is, that at least this last one is kept for both Leader and Heroes, when a Necromancer surrenders. You get the Leader in that case, while the other Heroes (not in a stack with them) become neutral.

    Now, while the surrendered hero is basically reset (you can level them up to the level they had, but under hero rule), the HoD effect is kept: the heroes (both Leader and now neutral Necro heroes) keep their Arch Lich and Lich Aura abilities.

    I have no idea whether this is true for the other hero-influencing empire Upgrades as well – but I’m not sure whether this is right. The Leader loses everything else as well aquired via research (for example casting points and spells), AND the empire has just crumbled.

    So – is this an oversight, intentional or not solvable any other way?

    #271168

    Taykor
    Member

    If I remember correctly, this upgrade makes them undead liches. How could this even be reversed? I think it’s natural (kind of) that this remains. And I very much doubt it creates any real imbalance.

    #271182

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    In theory, it’s just a few abilities that could be removed like the others as well – when you get surrendered heroes, all bought hero abilities are remvoved; instead you get the points for the levels the hero has. A leader also loses all research-based powers, like casting points and strategic spells. Since surrendered leaders are often accompanied by units – would those keep their advantages gained by empire upgrades?

    AT this point I’m more interested to learn how this is in fact handled and why, not in a specific way with the exception that it should be handled the same for everyone and every situation.

    #271199

    Taykor
    Member

    In theory, it’s just a few abilities that could be removed like the others as well

    I wrote mostly about lore. I guess they technically could be removed, it’s just I don’t see it as a bug, an oversight, or something to be solved. Also, I don’t see ‘everything should be handled the same’ as an argument in this case. It’s ok as an exception.
    But well, let’s see what the devs will say. If they would.

    #271225

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Well. Archlich makes every unit undead such a hero isspending a turn with.

    I mean, that’s kinda nice effect the first time it happens (in any campaign), but other than that it changes too much of the game. You can virtually play Necro.

    #271228

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    To phrase it differently and more to the point – if you put your LEADER into a stack with the surrendered Necro, next turn your LEADER, say, a Halfling Dreadnought, is a GHOUL.

    This is NOT what you bargain for when in a regular game. Surrender shouldn’t mean that a guy is able to subvert your whole empire. 🙂

    I will put this up as a bug, simply because this is NOT something that should be possible (as this is too class-specific; you could just as well leave the Class Buildings functional.

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