Shadow Realm – Brainstorm

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  • #258641

    Refineus
    Member

    Follow up on the two important topics introduced here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/30/#post-257424

    1/ should the Dark Elves be in the expansion and if yes, should the Dark Elf mod be integrated into the main mod (so that only 1 mod needs to be selected in the launcher)?
    For including Dark Elves: Hiliadan, lordoflinks,
    Against including Dark Elves: Gloweye, HousePet
    Neutral: Draxynnic
    Haven’t expressed opinion yet: Bob, Dr_K

    2/ Should we remove Decodence’s sites and climates (Tundra and Autumn) from the surface and underground layers?
    For removal: Hiliadan, Lordoflinks (remove structures, keep Tundra and Autumn), HousePet
    Against removal: Gloweye
    Neutral: Draxynnic
    Haven’t expressed opinion yet: Bob, Dr_K

    1. I do not think it should be included.

    2. I have a neutral opinion on this.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  Refineus.
    #258645

    Hiliadan
    Member

    If the Dark Elves are not included in the expansion, then they should not be in the campaign.
    I think we’re making a mistake here. The Dark Elves had been announced from the start and having 2 new Dwellings instead of 1 would make the Shadow Realm feel more like an expansion, compared to the quantity of content brought by GR or EL. Also as I said repeatedly, the Dark Elves have an intimate lore connection with the rest of the expansion.
    Unlike what Dr_K said, I do not think ticking 5 mods instead of 4 is neutral for users. It’s really a pain in the ass for PBEM users to have to tick so many mods when switching between games. It’s also a pain to have multiple mods updating, instead of 1 big mod. If the issue is just that nobody wants to do the transfer in the mod tools, I can do it.
    Anyway, for me the decision means Dark Elves are out. It does not mean we keep them but in a separate mod.

    Regarding the Decodence content, I strongly disagree with Dr_K that removing all Decodence content from the surface AND UG layers “would seem like a ridiculous waste of existing content if they were to be excluded from that layer”. They have NEVER been included in the Wikia: http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion and designing a game well most of the time means knowing how to remove stuff, not how to add stuff. Tundra and Autumn do not bring anything but they destroy balance. The other sites are too many and also destroy a fragile balance. We already add several of them, carefully selected with Charlatan and the rest of the team, in the Shadow Realm layer.
    The Decodence RMG Integration profoundly changes the game, that should be obvious to see, probably much more so than the other changes we bring in the expansion. It would take months to balance it and might not even be possible if we keep all the climates and sites.
    And no, balancing all these sites would take much more time than removing them in the RMG. Actually, it’s Gloweye who said it was better to use Decodence RMG Integration rather than start from scratch to include the SR layer and other sites, but I feel like it would be much more efficient to drop the Decodence RMG Integration mod and add what we want from scratch, that would remove the incompatibility between our expansion and the Decodence RMG Integration, and would avoid the work to remove all the sites one by one.
    We’re split 3 for removing vs 2 against removing on this issue. I hope we can get the opinion of Bob to decide.

    I updated the summary of opinions there: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/31/#post-258169

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    #258653

    Gloweye
    Member

    Also as I said repeatedly, the Dark Elves have an intimate lore connection with the rest of the expansion.

    No they don’t.

    Tundra and Autumn do not bring anything but they destroy balance.

    Never had that complaint on the Decodence RMG mod.

    The other sites are too many and also destroy a fragile balance.

    Also never heard this as feedback from users.

    The Decodence RMG Integration profoundly changes the game, that should be obvious to see, probably much more so than the other changes we bring in the expansion. It would take months to balance it and might not even be possible if we keep all the climates and sites.
    And no, balancing all these sites would take much more time than removing them in the RMG. Actually, it’s Gloweye who said it was better to use Decodence RMG Integration rather than start from scratch to include the SR layer and other sites, but I feel like it would be much more efficient to drop the Decodence RMG Integration mod and add what we want from scratch, that would remove the incompatibility between our expansion and the Decodence RMG Integration, and would avoid the work to remove all the sites one by one.

    Originally, the Shadow Realm was expanding on the RMG mod adding the new sites and Tundra/Autumn, with the reason for seperation was not to force the Shadow Realm, not the other way around.

    Also, the Wiki is NOT primary source – this thread is. Here’s a post on page 2: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/2/#post-238901

    And it counts Decodence content as present without changes, and no objections until you claimed that there was never talked about it. That’s december 2015, half a year before the wiki page (may 2016) and long before you were present on the project (same time). It’s not my fault that the wiki page your made didn’t include decodence content.

    Dark Elves were first mentioned shortly after that, but only by you.

    TL;DR, The decodence content is perfectly balanced within the game as it is, otherwise we’d have heard from at least one of the 2500 subscribers to the mod. From the start, decodence content was in (with a certain selection of suitable sites for the shadow layer), and dark elves were out and anything different than that is something that needs confirmation, not the other way around.

    So DE being out is good, but I don’t completely understand the argument to remove Decodence material. We KNOW it’s balanced, and there’s NO technical advantage to removing it. In fact, it’s more work.

    #258665

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Also as I said repeatedly, the Dark Elves have an intimate lore connection with the rest of the expansion.

    No they don’t.

    Well… they do and they don’t. Obviously, there is a historical link between the Shadow Elves and the Dark Elves. However, there’s no reason why a mod/expansion introducing Shadow Elves, Archons, Shadow Demons, and the Shadow Realm would necessarily also include Dark Elves whose background has them having lived underground avoiding contact with anyone for a century. In fact, to some extent, I’ve always thought having both the Dark Elves as a dwelling and a race that draws on the Dark Elves heavily for inspiration in the same mod weakens both as the compete for the same themespace.

    We’ve worked them into the story drafts, but it’s pretty much always been ‘since we have them we should find a reason to use them’ rather than an ‘of COURSE the remaining Dark Elves will be drawn out of hiding by this!’ Heck, we could just as easily have said that Meandor recruited Hester and his followers (giving us another leader candidate…) and that there are no Dark Elves any more, just High Elves and Shadow Elves.

    I’m abstaining on the question because, basically, we already have them, but if I’d been in sole charge of deciding what was included and what wasn’t, I’d probably have left them out in order to focus on the Shadow Elves and other denizens of the Shadow Realm. It’s complicated now because we’ve said that they would be in, but I certainly don’t consider them an essential component. I’m also inclined to think that if the people who did most of the work on them would prefer them not to be included, then their wishes should at the very least be given heavier weight.

    #258684

    vfxrob
    Member

    I have a few questions,

    Whens the deadline for me for this?

    When are you planning on uploading it to steam? And will that be the beta test or are you doing that all internally?

    I haven’t started on my own part yet, as a few things i had to wrap up with my own mod, I was thinking i might continue to work on that until its finished which should only be a few weeks, but with the shadow realm you guys are looking until after January?

    #258753

    Dr_K
    Member

    RE: Structures.

    Did not finish what I was working on before the other test game start, and didn’t want to upload a broken version. Will continue work sometime this weekend. Also have to incorporate the change that was made in between my download and the rest of my edits.

    For the structures that have values for “Average Defender Spawn Strength”, what do those correspond to in terms of the actual choices between “Very Weak” and “Very Strong”?

    Also, what are we doing about the Shadow Realm versions of structures? They need to be created as new structures, so are we going to use the same settings as the normal ones or change them for the SR?

    What model is intended for the “Will Breaker” unit? Also, that battlefield enchantment seems a very weak for the strongest site in the game. Spawning a single unit that is guaranteed to die after 4 rounds? I’m assuming there is something missing from that spell on the wiki.

    #258757

    Gloweye
    Member

    For the structures that have values for “Average Defender Spawn Strength”, what do those correspond to in terms of the actual choices between “Very Weak” and “Very Strong”?

    I think it’s easier to determine by looking at vanilla sites and compare how much units you want in there to any of those.

    Also, what are we doing about the Shadow Realm versions of structures? They need to be created as new structures, so are we going to use the same settings as the normal ones or change them for the SR?

    tweak were appropriate ? I think we should do it on a case by case basis.

    #258764

    Hiliadan
    Member

    For the structures that have values for “Average Defender Spawn Strength”, what do those correspond to in terms of the actual choices between “Very Weak” and “Very Strong”?

    For the last structure I added to the Wiki, I explicitely wrote the level “Very weak”, etc. as well as the defender strength multiplier. Please remind me the ones where it’s lacking so that I add it.
    Basically the values are:
    Defender strength Gold value
    Very Weak 125
    Weak 175
    Medium 300
    Strong 550
    Very Strong 900

    Also, what are we doing about the Shadow Realm versions of structures? They need to be created as new structures, so are we going to use the same settings as the normal ones or change them for the SR?

    As Gloweye said, we’ll have to see case by case but I would just take the current sites and change their appearance for now. Proposing new defender sets will take some time. The rest of the settings (outside defender sets) have no reason to be different from normal ones.

    What model is intended for the “Will Breaker” unit? Also, that battlefield enchantment seems a very weak for the strongest site in the game. Spawning a single unit that is guaranteed to die after 4 rounds? I’m assuming there is something missing from that spell on the wiki.

    Wisp with a different glow, e.g. yellow glow?
    The enchantment casts the Will Breaker every turn so you will be facing several of them at the same time. And you should wait until you try it, I think you underestimate it. 😛

    Whens the deadline for me for this?

    When are you planning on uploading it to steam? And will that be the beta test or are you doing that all internally?

    I haven’t started on my own part yet, as a few things i had to wrap up with my own mod, I was thinking i might continue to work on that until its finished which should only be a few weeks, but with the shadow realm you guys are looking until after January?

    The time table I had in mind initially:
    – Alpha phase starts on November 1st and lasts 2 months
    – Close beta phase starts on January 1st and lasts 2 months
    – Open beta starts on March 1st and last 2 months

    However, we are currently a bit late on planning, so we’ll see how it evolves, it’s flexible.

    So the upload on Steam won’t be before early March at best. It would be too buggy and incomplete before that.
    And yes, we are definitely looking until after January. 🙂

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    #259053

    Dr_K
    Member

    Wisp with a different glow, e.g. yellow glow?
    The enchantment casts the Will Breaker every turn so you will be facing several of them at the same time. And you should wait until you try it, I think you underestimate it. 😛

    That makes more sense. Much more problematic too.

    I started working on the will breaker abilities, and I don’t think we can make chaos work as intended though.

    I don’t believe there is a way for us to link multiple effects of the types that taunt and convert are (tactical effects not unit properties) to the resist check. I’m going to see if there is something I missed, otherwise I’m pretty sure it’s possible to do both without the resistance check, but other changes to compensate (longer cooldown).

    #259113

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok, maybe let’s focus on the other sites first then. I asked Zaskow and Hellbrick if they had ideas how to mod that, if not, then we need to rework it. Making it 100% with a longer cooldown seems too harsh for me, having a 100% chance of 1 unit switching side every turn is too hard to fight against.

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    #259144

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    #259157

    Gloweye
    Member

    Posting here to try and clean up the tags for the topic

    #264367

    Hiliadan
    Member

    We’ve got some very nice progress on the Campaign, it’s great! 🙂
    What about the main mod and the RMG? Gloweye, were you able to make progress on the RMG? And Dr_K, did you smash some of the bugs/issues of the alpha version? Would be good to launch a second PBEM game to test the updated RMG and main mod.

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    #264408

    Hiliadan
    Member

    It looks like this is not possible to implement:
    “SE Military RG2: “Shadow Elf Executioners use 5 Movement Points on the tactical combat map on the Shadow Realm””

    Anyone has an idea?

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    #265263

    Hiliadan
    Member

    @housepet: Gloweye made great progress on the RMG. It’s now necessary to move forward on the balancing of the sites and determining how they should be generated by the RMG. Do you have time to continue work on the balancing of sites we were working on?

    Here are the latest posts about that:

    Overall site balance
    As I said earlier, we currently add a MCU that boosts only Support and we don’t have any other MCU boosting other unit types. We need to take this into account. I haven’t had time to check the 3 Decodence’s sites yet.

    @housepet: did you have time to check the 20170915_AoW3-SR_site-balance.xls file? See http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/30/#post-257466

    Actually we also need to check the rewards. That would not be fun to add too many sites giving items and not enough giving spells for instance. So @housepet: we also need to fill columns P to V about the rewards.

    I would suggest to add a tab in our Excel in the Dropbox about the RMG passes with 1 column with the pass location in the Mod tools, 1 column explaining what it does, 1 column about the surface value (e.g. Gold Mine), 1 column with the SR value. That will allow a good overview of what we are doing and why (+ 1 column = comment on what we did).

    I believe we can choose to limit the number of structures with Pop bonus on the SR, lorewise, it could be explained: populations grow slower in the SR, due to its mystical forces. Balance wise, it can be good, as the Shadow Elves have a significant advantage being on this layer without being affected by Shadow Sickness and having access to somehow better sites.
    But the structure that replaces Great Farm should indeed be linked to the Great Farm bonuses of RG and tech (Dreadnought, Goblin’s RG).
    I would say we can replace Great Farm by Shadow Weed for Dreadnought and Goblin’s bonus. And Gold Mine by Crystal Mine.

    I think we should keep Lucky Cloverfield and Flowers of Solace in the SR. Bountiful Melons might be out of place so we should probably keep them out. But would be good to have a replacement (especially since in the balance mod, they are linked to a RG). That would solve the Halfling’s RG issue in the SR.

    Thinking about Trading Post stats and so +20 gold too. (could be added to the passes involving the Trading Post UG and give 75% of the weight to the Trading Post and the rest to the Mithril Mine).
    @housepet: looks like the Mithril Mine is missing in our Excel table?

    As I said earlier, I’m going to try to make a Wiki page on the RMG.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Hiliadan.

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    #269275

    Hiliadan
    Member

    In theory the following structures should already be in the main mod: Forgotten Thrones: Artica, Beacon of Light, Hollow Grove, Archon Fort, Larva Pool, Warband Campfire

    These ones should be added if they’re not in:
    Shadow Gate
    Forgotten Thrones: Yakaa, Mab, Nimue, Merlin, Nekron, Arakna + the Wizard for the Guardian Angel
    Forge of Dreams
    Shadow Weed (if not already in Decodence)
    Glass Furnance
    Celestial Pool
    Heart of the Shadow

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    #269452

    Gloweye
    Member

    Shadow weed was already in decodence, right ? We might need to alter it tho. I guess you’ll want to do that in the main mod.

    But the structure that replaces Great Farm should indeed be linked to the Great Farm bonuses of RG and tech (Dreadnought, Goblin’s RG).
    I would say we can replace Great Farm by Shadow Weed for Dreadnought and Goblin’s bonus. And Gold Mine by Crystal Mine.

    I think we should keep Lucky Cloverfield and Flowers of Solace in the SR. Bountiful Melons might be out of place so we should probably keep them out. But would be good to have a replacement (especially since in the balance mod, they are linked to a RG). That would solve the Halfling’s RG issue in the SR.

    I was planning to put shadow weed in patches, like current bountiful melons and flowers. However, I think both cloverfield and flowers look really weird in the SR, and i’d like to remove them. They don’t fit the theme. in SM, the shadow realm looks like a barren wasteland, except for rather alien looking growth.

    I thought we put in Crystal Mine in addition to gold mine ? If so, I think that’d compensate for the loss of great farms bonus, if we just have it trigger the same boni.

    Halflings can just have the same modifiers on shadow weed as they do the other flowers/clovers they like. It fits well, if you ask me.

    Hmm. Was looking forward to finally having shadow gates, tbh.

    Also, eyecandy:

    Draconians can spawn in the new shadow realm. This map has a main and smaller continent, with all sorts of small ridges crossing the void.

    In the shadow realm, the unstablesness of the void shapes the land. Often, small ridges are left behind, which are used as paths.

    Some shadow gates will lead to rather isolated islands in a vast and immesurable void.

    At the edge of this continent, we see the chaotic nature of the void in the paths that are still available.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gloweye.
    #269456

    HousePet
    Member

    Unfortunately I’m a complete mess at the moment due to a non functioning PhD project and non functioning depression treatment. However, I should be shelving the PhD at the end of February and will be taking a year off everything. I will then be looking for things to keep me busy, such as this.

    #269460

    Gloweye
    Member

    Im sorry to hear that, HousePet. Take all the time you need.

    Perhaps I can take on the balancing aspect, mostly. It’s not like I’d shut up about it otherwise anyway.

    #269462

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Take care HousePet! Welcome back when you’re ready.

    Perhaps I can take on the balancing aspect, mostly. It’s not like I’d shut up about it otherwise anyway.

    We were doing it together with HousePet so we can work on it together. We need to update the \Dropbox\AoW3-Shadow-Realm-expansion\balance\20170915_AoW3-SR_site-balance.xls with what I mentioned above. Could you start the work?
    We really need to discuss it together and transparently, including and especially for the weight of each site on the different passes they’re involved in.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Hiliadan.

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    #269464

    lordoflinks
    Member

    I see there is a lost city in those screenshots. I reskinned it to look like a Syron City so it would fit better in the Shadow Realm. If you wanted to use it instead of the normal one, its called Treasure_SyronLostCity.clb in the models folder of the Dropbox.
    Take care Housepet.

    #269479

    Gloweye
    Member

    I see there is a lost city in those screenshots. I reskinned it to look like a Syron City so it would fit better in the Shadow Realm. If you wanted to use it instead of the normal one, its called Treasure_SyronLostCity.clb in the models folder of the Dropbox.
    Take care Housepet.

    Yeah, I just used the surface sets of passes, but duplicated them. We can now change them at will. (I didn’t have internet, so couldn’t check.)

    #269648

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok I updated the Wikia with how Vulnerable to Shadow Sickness actually works and added the following sites:

    Shadow Weed
    I removed the “restore MP” as it seemed a bit too much: getting Shadow Walker is already good!
    I put it with 0 income for now, we need to see after we have an overview of the balance of sites if we should add +5 gold and +20 happiness as HousePet suggested.
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Shadow_Weed

    Glass Furnace
    I kept it without combat enchantment (equivalent to a Gold Mine, even if it’s based on a Magma Forge and Forges have Choking Fume).
    Looks like Visit structures can’t get Adventure Set… so we can’t get a structure like the Glass Furnace that heals machines AND give a reward when cleared, can we? I dropped the gold reward for now.
    Renamed Glass Armoury => Glass Armory (to be consistent with Enchanted Armory, etc).
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Glass_Furnace

    Celestial Pool
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Celestial_Pool
    As far as I know, it’s not possible to make Ghouled units become living again as requisites cannot be removed. So the initial idea of “Visit to heal living creatures and restore Ghouls to life” cannot be implemented. We need to come up with something new. Ideas:
    – give Undead units a new strategic healing that is added as a property for 3 strategic turns, that allow 8 HP healed / turn. (is it possible in combination with Cannot Regenerate? not sure)
    – gives True Sight and +1 Vision Range to visiting units for 3 turns
    – gives a random buff to visiting units from the list of Meditate but with the best buffs removed

    Still missing http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/32/#post-258254:
    – Heart of the Shadow (+ check if we have an ability for Heart of the Shadow yet ? Or are we just going with Shadow Walking?)
    – Shadow Gate

    Also:
    Storm Tower (SE racial defense building)
    We had a debate around p.18-19 but it was never closed.
    Basically we had the following options:
    1/ 12 shock damage on a random enemy unit outside the wall and Dispel Magic on all ADJACENT enemy units (not on the unit hit by lightning) every turn.
    2/ 15 shock damage on a random enemy unit outside the wall every turn.
    3/ all units get 20% frost weakness and 20% fire protection and one enemy unit outside the wall is hit by 8 shock damage every turn

    I discussed a bit with some other players on the Battlefield and the preferred option would be:
    1a/ 11 shock damage on a random enemy unit outside the wall and Dispel Magic on all ADJACENT enemy units (not on the unit hit by lightning) every turn.
    1b/ 8 shock damage and Inflict Shocking on a random enemy unit outside the wall on every turn.
    1c/ 9 shock damage and Inflict Marked by Shadows on a random enemy unit outside the wall on every turn.

    DLC and the expansion
    Should the MCU be available only to players owning GR or EL? And does it matter if the MCU are on .rpk from the DLC?

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    #269654

    HousePet
    Member

    Shadow Weed: Seems justified. I have never understood why it restored MP anyway.
    With the site balance, every player starting location currently has a Gold Mine in Outpost range. Assuming we can get this part to be different for the Shadow Layer, I would suggest that this be replaced with a Shadow Weed so that nobody has their start city potentially crippled by non-access to Shadow Weed. If the Shadow Weed site has no yields, then that is an automatic net -10 gold for that generation step. Alternatively we can just make that generation step create a Gemstone Mine and a Shadow Weed in Outpost Range, but that could look a bit crowded.

    Glass Furnace: Slightly disappointing, but we can live with that.

    Celestial Pool: Any reason to not just go with Heal Living Units, or just Heals Units? We aren’t going to have any Shrines to the Guardian Angel in the shadow layer

    Storm Tower: I’m leaning towards 1a or 1c, depending on how accessible Inflict Marked by Shadows ends up. We may need to playtest this one to get a feel for it.

    DLC and the expansion: This sounds a bit too technical/legal for me to give input for. I wouldn’t imagine that much of our target audience wouldn’t have both expansions and I can’t remember whether we were going to say they were required.

    #269655

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok, added the 2 final sites to the Wikia! http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion

    Heart of the Shadow
    So no battle enchantment, like other Hearts. And gives Shadow Walking to all units in the Empire as long as it’s in domain + Shadow Walking and Shadow Demon Slayer to units produced in the city’s domain.
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Heart_of_the_Shadow

    Shadow Gate
    Pretty simple, as described before.
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Shadow_Gate

    Next steps:
    – balance the sites’ incomes (==> require the weights of all the passes of the RMG, I’m going to work on that and add it to the Wikia)
    – add an Elite ability for the Umbral Weaver
    – take decisions for the Storm Tower, Touched, but also the Celestial Pool (the “transform Ghouls into living creatures” needing to be replaced)

    The AoW3 Wiki, including a video library!
    Improve AoW3 with the balance mod (presentation video)
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    #269656

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Shadow Weed

    Assuming we can get this part to be different for the Shadow Layer, I would suggest that this be replaced with a Shadow Weed so that nobody has their start city potentially crippled by non-access to Shadow Weed.

    Mmh, Shadow Elves and Draconians don’t need it and for other races, the point of the vulnerability to Shadow Sickness is to put them at a disadvantage in the SR. Why would we help them like this? I am under the assumption that we can ensure that players do NOT randomly start on the SR layer against their will, do you confirm that Gloweye? What are the options in terms of starting layers? Can’t you make SE start on the SR layer by default and the other NEVER start on it? Or use the “default” option to represent SR layer when it is active?

    Glass Armory
    I actually forgot to finish it yesterday.
    So it gives +1 physical (melee) damage for Infantry and Cavalry units (BTW, could be renamed Arsenal to avoid confusion about armors, even if armory is a correct word for that meaning). If we compare that to other MCU, it looks like it should not cost more than 50 gold/50 mana, with Pillar of the Stylite being the closest and giving +2 Spirit melee damage and Projectile Resistance. I would say there should be no mana cost because that’s only physical melee damage. Actually it’s even worse than a medal (which also gives HP) and which costs 50 gold with a medal building. So I would go for 35 gold (it still boost 2 types of units and not just 1).

    Celestial Pool

    Celestial Pool: Any reason to not just go with Heal Living Units, or just Heals Units? We aren’t going to have any Shrines to the Guardian Angel in the shadow layer

    Well, that’s what it does: http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Celestial_Pool But the initial description by you also included a part about Ghouls. So I’m trying to find a replacement in addition to the Heal living.

    The AoW3 Wiki, including a video library!
    Improve AoW3 with the balance mod (presentation video)
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    #269661

    Gloweye
    Member

    – give Undead units a new strategic healing that is added as a property for 3 strategic turns, that allow 8 HP healed / turn. (is it possible in combination with Cannot Regenerate? not sure)

    It’s possible, of course. But I prefer just full heal for all, in a case like that. Or have it so divine that it won’t affect undead anyway.

    2/ 15 shock damage on a random enemy unit outside the wall every turn.

    1b/ 8 shock damage and Inflict Shocking on a random enemy unit outside the wall on every turn.

    I’d prefer either of these two for the Storm Tower. Dont overcomplicate things.

    Should the MCU be available only to players owning GR or EL? And does it matter if the MCU are on .rpk from the DLC?

    There’s no way we could make MCU available for players without either anyway. They’ll be conceptually disabled if you don’t have at least 1 expansion. As for which RPK it’s in…TBH I don’t know how much it matters. I *Think* it doesn’t matter at all. But we’d have to test it.

    Shadow Weed: Seems justified. I have never understood why it restored MP anyway.

    Because it did in SM. Im fine with disabling it.

    – balance the sites’ incomes (==> require the weights of all the passes of the RMG, I’m going to work on that and add it to the Wikia)

    For every site, just say to which vanilla site you want it to be comparable. Then we’ll generate a couple maps, look them over, and adjust based on what we feel like. That’s the only way to really do this kind of thing.

    Why would we help them like this? I am under the assumption that we can ensure that players do NOT randomly start on the SR layer against their will, do you confirm that Gloweye?

    For every race seperately, I have to enable them starting on the SR as independents or players. Currently, I thought to spawn both draconians and shadow elves on the SR with both independents and players. I can understand toggling off draconian players, but they’d really not be disadvantaged if you ask me, so I think it’s kind of cool. Do we want to keep Shadow Elves SR only ? Would also force you to get in there if you want them in your army.

    Glass Armory
    I actually forgot to finish it yesterday.
    So it gives +1 physical (melee) damage for Infantry and Cavalry units (BTW, could be renamed Arsenal to avoid confusion about armors, even if armory is a correct word for that meaning). If we compare that to other MCU, it looks like it should not cost more than 50 gold/50 mana, with Pillar of the Stylite being the closest and giving +2 Spirit melee damage and Projectile Resistance. I would say there should be no mana cost because that’s only physical melee damage. Actually it’s even worse than a medal (which also gives HP) and which costs 50 gold with a medal building. So I would go for 35 gold (it still boost 2 types of units and not just 1).

    Just sounds far to weak to me. How about we add either 1 frost or 1 shock damage, and make it 25 gold 50 mana ? It’ll still be weaker than stylite.

    #269678

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Currently, I thought to spawn both draconians and shadow elves on the SR with both independents and players. I can understand toggling off draconian players, but they’d really not be disadvantaged if you ask me, so I think it’s kind of cool. Do we want to keep Shadow Elves SR only ? Would also force you to get in there if you want them in your army.

    I’m fine with Draconians starting on the SR but what I don’t like is that players can’t choose where to start. So is there any way for players to choose where they start using the current UI? Like “Default” = SR layer for SE and Draconians, is that possible?

    I agree for the Glass Armory being too weak in the initial concept that was proposed very early in this thread. But I’d rather wait until we have a bigger overview of site and MCU balance before modifying it.

    Hiliadan wrote:

    Should the MCU be available only to players owning GR or EL? And does it matter if the MCU are on .rpk from the DLC?

    There’s no way we could make MCU available for players without either anyway. They’ll be conceptually disabled if you don’t have at least 1 expansion. As for which RPK it’s in…TBH I don’t know how much it matters. I *Think* it doesn’t matter at all. But we’d have to test it.

    Ok then the best is probably to put the MCU at the same location as current MCU are so that was find them quickly.

    The AoW3 Wiki, including a video library!
    Improve AoW3 with the balance mod (presentation video)
    The Battlefield.com/AoW3 the community website for AoW3

    #269710

    Gloweye
    Member

    Been reading through the collection on the wiki. Couple remarks:

    We’re changing the element of the Dark Pact ranged attack on succubi. However, we got shadow bolts on another unit. Why don’t we put it on the succubus instead of fairy fire ?

    Scoundrel: Did we decide Shadow Realm Concealment at base would be to strong ? There’s 3 other races that get their concealment innately, and nobody else on medal…also, you wouldn’t build it for stealth if you don’t have it right away. If we talked about this before, nvm this.

    Note: We’ll have to duplicate all buildings that have different defender sets on the SR. If nobody started yet, how about I do it ? I’ve messed around with them before.

    I’ll also take a look at whether we need to duplicate the decodence structures.

    Glass Furnace problem: It should give gold when cleared. I’m not 100% whether it would work, but I could try putting a gold pile on top of every site in the RMG.

    Celestial Pool: I actually think Great Healing Showers is weaker than Mass Bless. As in, much weaker. The targetting is random.

    #269711

    Gloweye
    Member

    Note: We’ll have to duplicate all buildings that have different defender sets on the SR. If nobody started yet, how about I do it ? I’ve messed around with them before.

    Nobody started yet, so I’m doing it. (Note: It’s required because it’s the only way to prevent the wrong units showing up in SR in adventure sets)

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