Stun is ridiculous and boring

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Stun is ridiculous and boring

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This topic contains 59 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by  Taykor 5 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #100616

    Bolero
    Member

    I am so sick and tired of it, every single game against a sorcerer is the same, disjunct the static electricity or be perma stunned. I tried to fight with static electricity on for a couple of battles but the entire dwarven warlord army of phalanx, firstborns basically is stunned for the entire friggin battles, it is a sad disjunct fest and boring to play.

    I can defeat the AI spamming static electricity np, thats no the point of my rant, point is the effect is so powerful that it leaves nothing to random chances and fun unpredictable battles, unlike stun effects in shadow magic. Hit something get stunned basically. Now what really protects against it, resistance don’t think so? I had one phantasm warrior with 80% lightning protection + divine buff(+6 resistance) still stunned on the first friggin opportunity attack, what the hell. Because the AL is addicted to this one spell and because i always allow the AI a chance to build large armies on large, xl maps this means i’m no longer player against sorcerer, because it is boring and predictable(the killer of fun) disjunct or lose.

    This is bad design, a spell should be strong but not instant win button, at least not a buff effect not doing direct damage, bloodbath is strong, relentless army is strong and holy war is strong, static electricity is overpowered and boring. Gone are the shadow magic days when stun was something fun to fight against or cool thing to have, i too dislike playing sorcerer because AI cannot fight it, the only way to fight it is disjunct and AI don’t always cast that(and neither should it), problem is not AI it is stun.

    #100618

    AnafemA
    Member

    Agree with Bolero. Static electricity is too strong for so cheap unit like wisp. Two stack of wisps -> all my high tier units are stun =/

    Maybe it should be something like a losing move point instead stun…

    #100620

    Bolero
    Member

    Maybe it should be something like a losing move point instead stun…

    Stun should still be a stun imo, lower proc is needed. Stun in shadow magic was cool, now everything is allergic to it. T.T

    #100621

    Bob5
    Member

    Static electricity is also much more expensive than Bloodbath, Relentless Army or Holy War. It’s a very late-game spell. The main power from it comes from the fact that it gives all enemy units 20% lightning weakness, which increases probability of stunning to occur (as it runs on lightning resistance). Higher resistance works, you just got bad luck with your Phantasm warrior. You can also fight static electricity by attacking from a distance, as static shield only activates when you’re attacked in melee. Support units in particular fare well, as they generally have high resistance and can attack from distances.

    Static electricity is such a late-game spell that it is somewhat designed to be gamebreaking. Mana core also deals ridiculous damage, chaos rift is even more extreme than static electricity. Twisting Roots combined with armies of floaters or ranged units in a defensive siege also gives a massive advantage. It’s strong, but by the time it comes out the game should have already been decided anyway. On XL maps try to put the games research etc a bit slower so late-game also happens later.

    #100622

    AnafemA
    Member

    I mean wisp’s skill only. It’s too powerful for that money)

    #100626

    Bolero
    Member

    Static electricity is also much more expensive than Bloodbath, Relentless Army or Holy War. It’s a very late-game spell. The main power from it comes from the fact that it gives all enemy units 20% lightning weakness, which increases probability of stunning to occur (as it runs on lightning resistance). Higher resistance works, you just got bad luck with your Phantasm warrior. You can also fight static electricity by attacking from a distance, as static shield only activates when you’re attacked in melee. Support units in particular fare well, as they generally have high resistance and can attack from distances.

    Static electricity is such a late-game spell that it is somewhat designed to be gamebreaking. Mana core also deals ridiculous damage, chaos rift is even more extreme than static electricity. Twisting Roots combined with armies of floaters or ranged units in a defensive siege also gives a massive advantage. It’s strong, but by the time it comes out the game should have already been decided anyway. On XL maps try to put the games research etc a bit slower so late-game also happens later.

    AI is casting the thing repeatedly, i had to disjunct it at least three times in a single battle. I don’t see the AI have age of magic. I would like to know the real proc chance, in the very same game that phantasm warrior(two out of two times before killd)was stunned each time it attacked, was miserable to watch. 17 resistance/80% light protection phantasm, imagine any expensive T3 with 9-10-11 resistance , basically removed from the battle.

    I don’t think that is good reason to allow it be, other buffs/debuffs are fun and can be overcome(and come late-game), they present a fun challenge but not impossible to deal with, that is the nature of bloodbath holy war twisting roots, static electricity renders your entire none ranged army helpless against it, on top of that the sorcerer is already stunning with support units so its stun from range stun in close combat, what the hell. Seriously the proc chance is off, when they nerfed stun last time they nerfed the wrong aspect of it(stun duration) it is the proc chance that is ridiculous. Against the AI statric electricity is not that late-game it researches fast, long before chaos rift, and always cast static electricity–> chaos rift in that order, if you disjunct static elecricity it will never cast chaos rift in my experience so far with the game.

    #100629

    Bolero
    Member

    At the very least, proc chance should be much lower against high resistance, if i have a T3 with 18 resistance i don’t want to see it permanently in stun mode.

    #100635

    Taykor
    Member

    Making proc chance much lower on a spell which only works when your unit is attacked in melee would make it useless and not worthy to spend resources on. And Sorcerer must have some means to counter T3 (and T4) hordes from a Warlord.
    Actually I’m ‘so sick and tired’ of continuous attempts to nerf already considerably nerfed Sorcerer (and without giving anything interesting instead; Watcher is a nice toy, but it is not a counter to mass production).

    #100638

    Bolero
    Member

    Making proc chance much lower on a spell which only works when your unit is attacked in melee would make it useless and not worthy to spend resources on. And Sorcerer must have some means to counter T3 (and T4) hordes from a Warlord.
    Actually I’m ‘so sick and tired’ of continuous attempts to nerf already considerably nerfed Sorcerer (and without giving anything interesting instead; Watcher is a nice toy, but it is not a counter to mass production).

    Are we playing the same game here?

    Warlord is made useless with this thing on. Another way to look at it, static electricity is overpowering bloodbath+ relentless army + global assault(gold medal), don’t do much to t3 sorc units with static on, you get 1 hit thats it, any more is the exception. For gods sake i played dwarven warlord with better resistance unit(firsborn) and i still in stun mode, imagine other race.

    Static electricity would be cool with lesser proc chance, hardly useless still better than any other buff imo.

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by  President.
    #100640

    SmurfInHell
    Member

    The Sorcerer needs some help in terms of accessible unit types (IMO). That being said, the static stun can be quite annoying, but I’ve found that when going against Sorc players I simply prepare for it. It’s one of the useful tools they have and it would be silly for them NOT to use it. Especially since their choice of units is slimmer than most until later into the game.

    Even then, the wisp can provide a great asset to hold up an attack or two while bigger things do the damage.

    Overall, I feel the stun needs just a slightly lower proc rate, but I would also recommend preparing for them when going against a Sorc. They are not tough when you’re ready for them.

    #100668

    Bouh
    Member

    Are we playing the same game here?

    Warlord is made useless with this thing on. Another way to look at it, static electricity is overpowering bloodbath+ relentless army + global assault(gold medal), don’t do much to t3 sorc units with static on, you get 1 hit thats it, any more is the exception. For gods sake i played dwarven warlord with better resistance unit(firsborn) and i still in stun mode, imagine other race.

    Static electricity would be cool with lesser proc chance, hardly useless still better than any other buff imo.

    Yeah, we definitely don’t play the same game. By the time static field come, the warlord is on rampaging mode and stomp on everything.

    The AI is definitely the problem in your problem, and as you said, you can defeat her eventhough she static field, so what is the frigin problem ?

    You should realize here that you are asking to nerf a whole class because it’s not fun enough for you to bully the AI when she use this spell…

    PS : I must feel angry here, and it’s because I am : I’m sick of people asking to nerf each and every single thing they have to think or prepare against.

    #100674

    AnafemA
    Member

    PS : I must feel angry here, and it’s because I am : I’m sick of people asking to nerf each and every single thing they have to think or prepare against.

    You are right, but balance is not present of God and we can ask about make its better.
    So, logically I should use range unit against wisp – archers for example. But wisp have teleport… and I have not time for use my range advantage.

    #100675

    Stigrs77
    Member

    I played against an AI emperor sorcerer recently and won. It never cast Static Electricity but I always kept mana up against it in case it did (or Chaos Rift – which I did Disjunct a few times).

    Sorcerers are trolls. Nothing they do is anything but annoying – I had to Disjunct Scorched Earth and School of Enchantment before attacking every city, and I had to bring along Forge Priests and other support units with the Dispel ability in every army to dispel the stuns (with 36/40 mp they were good anyway).

    Disjunct/dispel-fest is descriptive yes.

    #100699

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    Today a Sorceror came to reclaim the city I took from her. She assaulted with two trebuchets, some t3 and t2 cavalry, some supports, 2 heroes and an Eldritch Horror. She did immediately cast Static Electricity, but I was prepared and had enough archers and supports to man the walls.

    I summoned some ancient spirits in between the trebs who distracted most units and drew some other units in a corner. Even though my hardhitters got stunned multiple times I won the fight without too many losses… and the odds were against me even without Static Electricity.

    It is not that hard but you need to prepare. SE does nothing to a garrison of ranged units.

    #100717

    Bolero
    Member

    The AI is definitely the problem in your problem, and as you said, you can defeat her eventhough she static field, so what is the frigin problem ?

    You should realize here that you are asking to nerf a whole class because it’s not fun enough for you to bully the AI when she use this spell…

    PS : I must feel angry here, and it’s because I am : I’m sick of people asking to nerf each and every single thing they have to think or prepare against.

    The AI is definitely not my problem, static is boring because it is ridiculous with a very high proc chance, and resistance don’t help much to fight it. It is boring because each battle againt static electricity plays out the same, disjunction or ranged army, warlord typically is close combat oriented so it helps illustrate the problem.

    If high resistance t3 allergic reaction to it does not help you realize a problem, then i’m afraid nothing will, but do some of you remember shadow magic stun, that one was cool and fun. This one is not the slightest fun, IIRC shadow magic proc was like 25% chance or 30-40% against low resistance, this is like 70-90% chance all the friggin time, how can that be fun for anyone except masochists or players wanting to win through overpowered means?

    Other buffs, debuffs can be challenging but doable, but static absolutely needs to be dispelled when close combat begins, there is no option. It destroys close combat unlike anything and is miserable to watch. The sorcerer loses out on this as well because no human being at least will ever let him have it active, it is also boring for the sorc player not to enjoy it. For other classes fighting, someone can cast bloodbath and the other can counter with twisting roots but static electricity is not the same.

    I didn’t realize a nerf like i would suggest is going to nerf the whole class, if sorcerer really needs static electricity in its current form to be a decent class, then other aspects of the class is underpowered, but static stun definitely is ridiculous. As i see it, a lowered proc chance or resistance actually protecting from it, is only good for this game. More enjoyable for anybody that wishes to try out and use this spell, i certainly would like to play with or against it other than disjunct counter or not using it at all against the AI.

    #100718

    Bolero
    Member

    Disjunct/dispel-fest is descriptive yes.

    Yeah, i don’t enjoy it at all. I think many are worried of nerf but forget that the game is actually deteriorated by the whole disjunct thing, static electricity certainly do advocate disjunction spam and less use of spells.

    #100722

    Bouh
    Member

    @bolero : static field is an end game spell. In end game, the sorcerer is far behind the warlord, because the warlord have a lot of units, a lot more than the sorcerer, and they are far more powerful than anything he can encounter.

    Oh, and the warlord have mounted archer for ranged units.

    But seriously, martial art alone largely make up for static shield in late game. The sorcerer units will be far less powerful than phalanx, warbreed or manticore rider. Not to mention the spells of the warlord which are insanely powerful as well.

    And static shield have been nerfed already in the last patch.

    Sorcerer in late game completely rely on his spells to make up for unupgraded racial units and very low production of summons. You should try this class before asking for a nerf.

    And lastly, either you had bad luck or you are exagerating, because statuc shield will never proc more than 50% of the time against most units. IIRC static shield attack is 9.

    #100723

    smeagolheart
    Member

    I think they fixed the % chance on the 3 shot units, it fires “less” often which is still quite a bit.

    Static Electricity I think is still bugged and seems to have a much higher % chance of working. I often go to the nodes or whatever that have it and it’s pretty much guaranteed to work against anything that melees anything.

    There is no % chance, it’s like 95% chance of stunning anything that melees, it’s still broken.

    #100724

    Jomungur
    Member

    Static Electricity I think is still bugged and seems to have a much higher % chance of working. I often go to the nodes or whatever that have it and it’s pretty much guaranteed to work against anything that melees anything.

    The reason it works more often is because ‘static electricity’ also gives all enemy units 20% shock weakness. That means that the static sphere stun effect, which normally processes at 9 strength, processes at 11 strength against the units with shock weakness. Plus, the lightning attack that the attacker takes upon a successful hit also gets boosted by the shock weakness. So, yes, static electricity is more powerful than just having all your units getting the benefit of static sphere.

    #100725

    Bouh
    Member

    There is no % chance, it’s like 95% chance of stunning anything that melees, it’s still broken.

    You need actual tests to say such a thing. Otherwise it’s just overexagerated.

    #100728

    smeagolheart
    Member

    Static Electricity I think is still bugged and seems to have a much higher % chance of working. I often go to the nodes or whatever that have it and it’s pretty much guaranteed to work against anything that melees anything.

    The reason it works more often is because ‘static electricity’ also gives all enemy units 20% shock weakness. That means that the static sphere stun effect, which normally processes at 9 strength, processes at 11 strength against the units with shock weakness. Plus, the lightning attack that the attacker takes upon a successful hit also gets boosted by the shock weakness. So, yes, static electricity is more powerful than just having all your units getting the benefit of static sphere.

    thanks that’s probably it. Suggest removing the weakness to keep it at the regular percent of working.

    #100736

    Steven Aus
    Member

    Also it would have the effect of removing the current fact that units normally immune to shock damage and stun suddenly would have a noticeable chance of stun after a few hits.

    #100758

    thanks that’s probably it. Suggest removing the weakness to keep it at the regular percent of working.

    it’s a fairly expensive spell, so you won’t be able to cast it that much. Indeed, even if the sorcerer uses their research advantage to have a higher cp level and still cast it after winning the disjunct battle, they’ve also forgone summoning units.

    It used to be a big sp problem because the AI wouldn’t combat disjunct, but now that it knows what to do for that, I don’t see any real problem here.

    #100761

    smeagolheart
    Member

    Also it would have the effect of removing the current fact that units normally immune to shock damage and stun suddenly would have a noticeable chance of stun after a few hits.

    The shock weakness is a unit de-buff. It doesn’t increase or decrease. It’s just a one time hit of +20% shock weakness. It doesn’t happen with every hit or something.

    #100766

    Bouh
    Member

    I am against any nerf to this spell ! There is no evidence that the spell put the sorcerer in a too favorable place compared to other classes, hence there is absolutely no need to nerf it !

    #100779

    grumpysmurf
    Member

    what he said!

    unless you can provide more data that you have no access to dispells for stuns and ranged units, casting points for disjunct….

    For the 95%.
    A roll for 11 on a D20 times 3 for 3x melee attacks multiplies. 9/20^3 for not being stunned if you need 3x hits. Also a warlord has a cheap resurgence spell for 10CP and stead fast.

    #100780

    Steven Aus
    Member

    Steven Aus wrote:
    Also it would have the effect of removing the current fact that units normally immune to shock damage and stun suddenly would have a noticeable chance of stun after a few hits.

    The shock weakness is a unit de-buff. It doesn’t increase or decrease. It’s just a one time hit of +20% shock weakness. It doesn’t happen with every hit or something.

    Yes, I know. What I meant is that units normally immune to shock and stun would not be totally immune to it with the -20% debuf, and could be affected after a few melee hits.

    #100792

    Jerm
    Member

    What the OP is saying is he would like to defeat the sorceror without having to prepare for dispel or disjunct.

    That’s like saying I would like to go fishing but not bring fishing poles, baits, and what not.

    You are up against a sorceror bro. Prepare for it, just like you would prepare different units and spells when up against Dreadnoughts, Rogues, etc.

    #100796

    Garresh
    Member

    Jerm I like the mindset, but how do you personally prepare for it?

    #100798

    Jerm
    Member

    Make sure you research dispel/disjunct. Build more fodder units and archer units to absorb the stun and pepper them when engaged. Don’t send in your T3 and T4s blindly. Commit numbers to a target. Don’t expect to win in a 1v1 engagement, when you know stun is a factor.

    Build some lightning resistant units or units with high resistance.

    You are bound to lose some units. Accept it. If you are theocrats, a bunch of exalteds can be used as fodders which comes back after battle. If you are Arch Druid, consider supports to entangle their more mobile or strong units which can break your lines, or snipe off your hunters.

    There are many ways to deal with it I reckon.

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