About Experience Farming: How is experience gained exactly?

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions About Experience Farming: How is experience gained exactly?

Tagged: 

This topic contains 24 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Zrevnur 6 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #232374

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I was checking the AoW Wiki – nothing about it.

    Can anybody get a detailed explanataion? Are there limits for Hero XP gaining: Can Healing be used on enemy units as well?

    #232403

    Dr_K
    Member

    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Unit_Experience

    This what you were looking for? Not complete, obviously but it contains the bulk of what causes xp gain.

    I know Fen mentioned that spells have experience based on cost to cast in the beta, but wasn’t sure what the final result was. It’s buried somewhere in the forum.

    #232406

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Yes, thanks, very helpful, thanks.

    #232435

    madmac
    Member

    It should probably be mentioned on the wiki that there is cap on how much any unit can gain from repeating the same action in combat. I don’t have any hard numbers, but repeatedly using for example healing or ranged attacks will stop granting XP once the cap is reached.

    #232441

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Each unit has a counter that counts how often it’s giving out XP for interacting with other units. Whenever the one of the following happens:

    1) The unit uses a touch ability (gives XP to the unit)
    2) The unit is damaged by another unit (gives XP to the unit that damaged it)
    3) The unit hits another unit with a melee attack (gives XP to the unit that it struck)

    That counter goes down by 1. In the case of #2, if the damaging ability isn’t a repeating ability, then the counter goes down by 2 (because twice the amount of XP is being given out). Once the counter is at zero, then the unit will stop giving out XP for those things, though it will still give XP to the unit that kills it.

    The counter resets each turn on the world map, so if you retreat from combat then immediately attack again, the counters will still be where they were before.

    The counter’s starting value is defined in Title.RPK in the tier resources:

    Tier 1: 10
    Tier 2: 12
    Tier 3: 16
    Tier 4: 20

    #232443

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

    I edit this and ask why the values are different for different tiers? I mean, units get more XP in action with higher tier units – so why is their counter higher as well?

    #232447

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    I think that the idea was that higher tier units take more hits to kill, so they should be able to give out XP more frequently. The other idea was that the system is only supposed to stop people who actually try and farm XP, normal play shouldn’t really restrict XP gain, so the numbers are possibly a little too high.

    NB: I didn’t choose the values, and the guy who did isn’t here right now.

    #232452

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    The idea seems a bit odd: if you manage to diable a T4, every unit of yours may get a try, and if you let them run around and use only 1 action point for hitting you can minimize the damage and get a lot of XP from that, especially when you move archers into half-range and behind obstacles.

    Should there simply be a check whether the unit giving XP is disabled, and if so, give only 1 point, no matter what? I mean, thinking about it – what kind of experience do you gain when hacking away on an ensnared or webbed opponent?

    #232453

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    You get XP equal to the unit’s tier for each touch attack/damaging attack on/melee strike from it. So, shooting a single bow shot at a tier 2 unit gives 2xp. Killing the unit gives 5 times that value.

    Blocking XP gain from damaging paralyzed units could be done, I guess?

    #232459

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    That would solve the problem.

    In the other thread someone suggested to increase the counter for touch abilities to 5. I don’t think that would solve a lot.

    CAN XP gain from paralyzed units be blocked?

    #232461

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Yes, I’ll look into it tomorrow, assuming no-one objects.

    #232462

    Ericridge
    Member

    Experience farming by exploiters is one of reasons why we lost the ability to gain many levels in a single battle. I used to have recruit units that start the fight only to leave it as a elite. This only really happened in bigger fights and it benefited the AI as well. All those storm sisters that kept on racking up kills off my units became elite as well XD

    #232564

    Shakey
    Member

    Blocking XP gain from damaging paralyzed units could be done, I guess?

    Sounds a bit gamey.

    If you don’t read the forums you’ll have no idea why you are not getting said xp.

    You still have exploits. One example includes purposely taking ranged/line of sight penalties on ranged attacks to inflict low damage (thus granting more xp to more units).

    #232593

    Yes, I’ll look into it tomorrow, assuming no-one objects.

    Disabling units to feed XP to weaker units that need it (IE t1 serpents/spiders, other evolvers – martyrs, etc) – Is a perfectly legitimate, non-exploitative tactic.

    This is now getting ridiculous. You’ve Nerfed hero healing, that’s enough.

    #232603

    madmac
    Member

    Yes, I’ll look into it tomorrow, assuming no-one objects.

    I’m not in favor, for the reasons already given. It’s basically punishing you for using units that have disabling abilities, and it will be extremely unintuitive for most players.

    It would probably be easier just to lower the XP caps a bit across the board.

    #232637

    Ericridge
    Member

    Yes, I’ll look into it tomorrow, assuming no-one objects.

    I object. I object.

    Nerfs being made because of PBEM spilling over onto the area where I play in is bad enough.

    Disabling strong units through use of cunning and having weaker units gain up on it safely…. Isn’t that kind of the point of such abilities? Are you going to deny my poor cannon fodder civic guards which just brought down a manticore it’s trooper medal? 🙁

    If you want to go through with it, might as well as delete the units with ablities to disable the enemy from the game. ><

    #232641

    You get XP equal to the unit’s tier for each touch attack/damaging attack on/melee strike from it. So, shooting a single bow shot at a tier 2 unit gives 2xp. Killing the unit gives 5 times that value.

    Blocking XP gain from damaging paralyzed units could be done, I guess?

    I still think increasing drain on counter w/touch abilities is a better choice (assuming I understood your post correctly about touch abilities).

    The reason I say touch abilities should drain more is so you can’t web, entangle, stun, and keep going (thus leveling the units that are using the touch abilities). This change would also allow people to still disable units to allocate XP to weaker units.

    Example of current situation: Let’s say you have 2 T1 spiders and a hero with entangle.

    If there is only 1 enemy unit left with a counter of 10, you can use webs and entangles up to 10 times from your hero, and each spider (assuming everyone has full counters). Then you finish the unit off. XP farming.

    Example of with increased touch ability drain on counter (-5): Same aforementioned example situation.

    Now your spiders can only use web twice each, or web once and 5 attacks/retaliations before the counter is drained. Your hero can potentially entangle 4 times but it’s you probably used him to attack so his counter won’t be full anyway. XP farming becomes limited (and in most cases you can’t really do it anymore) but still allows players to make smart choices & allocate XP.

    As an added benefit, this is a simple change and can be easily modified if it is too low or high.

    Example of zero-XP on unit paralysis: Same aforementioned example situation.

    Once you disable the unit you can no longer get any extra XP on your spiders. As mentioned in the above posts, this is unintuitive and punishes players for trying to allocate XP (which is a normal tactic; we all try to allocate XP to our heroes or evolving units).

    #232645

    Hatmage
    Member

    I suspect zero exp from paralysed units would create huge problems for sorcerers in particular.

    #235391

    Zrevnur
    Member

    Each unit has a counter that counts how often it’s giving out XP for interacting with other units. Whenever the one of the following happens:

    1) The unit uses a touch ability (gives XP to the unit)
    2) The unit is damaged by another unit (gives XP to the unit that damaged it)
    3) The unit hits another unit with a melee attack (gives XP to the unit that it struck)

    That counter goes down by 1. In the case of #2, if the damaging ability isn’t a repeating ability, then the counter goes down by 2 (because twice the amount of XP is being given out). Once the counter is at zero, then the unit will stop giving out XP for those things, though it will still give XP to the unit that kills it.

    The counter resets each turn on the world map, so if you retreat from combat then immediately attack again, the counters will still be where they were before.

    The counter’s starting value is defined in Title.RPK in the tier resources:

    Tier 1: 10
    Tier 2: 12
    Tier 3: 16
    Tier 4: 20

    Question: If I set all 4 counters to 0 – will it stop all forms of combat XP with the exception of the killing blow?

    I am interested in buying the game (on GOG) but this XP farming sounds like a big turn-off. I would be fine with a system like in AoW 1: Only the killing blow gives XP.

    #235396

    Gloweye
    Member

    Question: If I set all 4 counters to 0 – will it stop all forms of combat XP with the exception of the killing blow?

    I am interested in buying the game (on GOG) but this XP farming sounds like a big turn-off. I would be fine with a system like in AoW 1: Only the killing blow gives XP.

    Should work.

    #237761

    Zrevnur
    Member

    Each unit has a counter that counts how often it’s giving out XP for interacting with other units. Whenever the one of the following happens:

    1) The unit uses a touch ability (gives XP to the unit)
    2) The unit is damaged by another unit (gives XP to the unit that damaged it)
    3) The unit hits another unit with a melee attack (gives XP to the unit that it struck)

    That counter goes down by 1. In the case of #2, if the damaging ability isn’t a repeating ability, then the counter goes down by 2 (because twice the amount of XP is being given out). Once the counter is at zero, then the unit will stop giving out XP for those things, though it will still give XP to the unit that kills it.

    The counter resets each turn on the world map, so if you retreat from combat then immediately attack again, the counters will still be where they were before.

    The counter’s starting value is defined in Title.RPK in the tier resources:

    Tier 1: 10
    Tier 2: 12
    Tier 3: 16
    Tier 4: 20

    Changed (to 0) the following for all 4 tiers and the tier 1 cadaver:
    – touch exp
    – engage exp
    – exp counter
    It appears to work for units. Unfortunately leaders/heroes are not fully affected. Probably its at least “engaging leader/hero” which still gives 3 XP to the unit (not the hero unless its leader vs hero or something like that).
    Any ideas how to fix that (or where to find the value)?

    #237769

    If XP is only handed out to units when they engage a leader/hero – then I believe it’s XP well deserved 🙂 but more importantly I think it cannot really be abused for mass XP harvesting (which was your main concern).

    So I think you can consider it fixed 🙂

    #238009

    Zrevnur
    Member

    Changed (to 0) the following for all 4 tiers and the tier 1 cadaver:
    – touch exp
    – engage exp
    – exp counter
    It appears to work for units. Unfortunately leaders/heroes are not fully affected. Probably its at least “engaging leader/hero” which still gives 3 XP to the unit (not the hero unless its leader vs hero or something like that).
    Any ideas how to fix that (or where to find the value)?

    I am still looking for an answer – if there is one – or is that hardcoded?

    #238011

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    Hi Zrevnur,

    I think what you want is in HeroGlobalSettings.rpk, best of luck!

    #238091

    Zrevnur
    Member

    Hi Zrevnur,
    I think what you want is in HeroGlobalSettings.rpk, best of luck!

    Thanks, this worked.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.