AI too passive

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions AI too passive

This topic contains 47 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  overlorddarkslash 6 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 31 through 48 (of 48 total)
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  • #212611

    Gloweye
    Member

    All AI changes are made to the base game, so there’s no difference between how it plays in base or full editions. Exception of some Necro-specific behaviour modifications, but none of these can be categorized as cheats.

    #212674

    hi

    #212699

    Sartharina
    Member

    This game has an excellent tactical ai there’s no doubt about that. Perhaps it could use another aggression feature. I wouldn’t be using it though. 😉

    Does the tactical AI change based on AI difficulty level, or is it always “Best the game can bring with the units that end up fighting in the tactical arena against yours”?

    A lot of people just want to build an empire for 100 turns and don’t want to fight anything until they have stacks of the best units. If those people were upset that the AI keeps starting shit, there wouldn’t really be a fix for it. Fortunately you can just crank up the difficulty…

    Play against two AI’s teamed up against you (emperor IMO), you’re constantly on the defensive.

    This is actually the opposite problem I have. I’d rather have low-level AIs start shit they can’t necessarily win, and actively derp about the map.

    Making “Smart” AI isn’t necessarily a problem. The difficulty lies in making (Either believably or ridiculously) “Stupid but fun” AI.

    #212730

    emky
    Member

    Thanks for the good echo, Sartharina!

    #212749

    Chipley
    Member

    All in all, sounds like you recently bit of more than you could chew…

    All in all, it sounds like you have NFI what you are talking about.

    Keep playing knight AI bro :)

    Sooo….let me get this straight. You come on these forums, create a whopping 3 replies, among one of which is solely to claim that I don’t know the game I’m playing (King for relax, emperor for challenge)?

    Sure, to each his own, but the AI only cheats in well-defined ways, and it seems like you have absolutely no idea which those are. Therefore I suggest you refrain from posting to avoid making yourself look even more stupid in front of the internet.

    The irony and hypocrisy is strong with this one.

    Nothing get’s past you does it! 3 forum posts must mean i’m fresh out of the games tutorial? And Mr 3700+ forum posts means your some type of e-sport AOW god right? lmao

    FYI I can easily take on several emperor AI without a problem, but it doesn’t mean the AI needs more cheats (i think it has more than enough, as everyone but yourself seems to realise)… it just needs to be made smarter. I mean, even when the AI is on the same team they don’t work together, they don’t co-ordinate their attacks at all. AI1 walks his army towards your base followed by AI2’s army, AI1 attacks your base with his army, AI2’s army doesn’t join in though (which would have been an easy win) he decides instead to send his entire army for an undefended fort in a corner of a map he’s never actually been to. Whilst AI3 just has like 20 groups of 1-3 units scattered all over the map, doing absolutely nothing….

    Hell, the AI doesn’t even co-ordinate their attacks or defense when they are solo e.g. AI1 has several groups of 6 units, but instead of attacking your army with all or most their units, they will split their forces up and turn an easy win into a decisive loss. Why?

    I really could go on and on, and give you plenty of examples and even replays showing just how dumb the AI can be, and just how much it needs to cheat to make up for it… but i’m confident with more gametime against emperor AI (and less time forum warring/fanboism) you too will find that those “well defined cheats” aren’t as well defined as you would have first thought.

    Never-mind though, i’ve given up waiting for challenging AI here and have finally found some decent human players to play against, so GG 🙂

    #212786

    NuMetal
    Member

    Thus, as a well experienced player that knows exactly what your feeling is, I tell you that unfortunately theres no solution.

    Sure there is. First of all he isn’t even playing Emperor yet and second of all even for you you can set up the game to be a challenge. For example make a game as Orc Warlord with Partisan, Explorer, Expander against 7 High Elve, Dwarf and Draconian Sorcerers on an XL land map with underground and far starting positions.

    Sure, to each his own, but the AI only cheats in well-defined ways, and it seems like you have absolutely no idea which those are. Therefore I suggest you refrain from posting to avoid making yourself look even more stupid in front of the internet.

    +1!

    #212822

    Gloweye
    Member

    Nothing get’s past you does it! 3 forum posts must mean i’m fresh out of the games tutorial? And Mr 3700+ forum posts means your some type of e-sport AOW god right? lmao

    I never claimed you couldn’t play the game, but I did claim a lack of knowledge of the specific methods that the AI uses to cheat. Hell, I never doubted the possibility that it’s possible to beat the AI without knowing how it cheats, but it seems you did.

    All you skill doesn’t take away that you made false statements about how the AI cheats. And when I correct you, you claim that I’m stupid. And yes, they’re well-defined. How I know? Cause I read posts by the Dev’s. Strangely enough, that’s a pretty reliable source, considering they put in those cheats.

    And I must say I agree on the AI smartness – a better AI is on of the top priorities, and the Dev’s are aware of that. They’re still improving it. However, it’s just plain silly to expect an AI as smart as the smartest players in a game as complex as this. And I also agree MP can give the challenge that the AI lacks, which to me is it’s major selling point.

    #212825

    Socratatus
    Member

    The number of anybody’s forum posts should have no bearing on that person’s ability to play the game. He could be a die hard player and never once posted. While a zillion post count chap might have barely played the game at all, but talks a lot. Thinking like that will only lead to a smackdown one day.

    #212829

    Matialdoctor,

    Civilization 4 does not have a better AI. It just cheats more. The ai is challenging but not only in a good way.

    I’m sure the Civ IV AI had huge bonuses, at high levels, and possibly even cheated (although I guess that depends on your idea of what cheating means). Regardless, the AI was challenging and fun to play against. The same goes for the the GalCiv II AI.

    I have yet to see the AI here to be challenging or fun to play against save for scripted scenarios.

    As I said, though, from what I’ve seen, the AI makes the troops and buildings as well as keeping troops together. It just doesn’t seem to go out building new settles, which is important, or really gathering these forces and going to attack.

    #212836

    pardon me Lord MartialDoctor, could you tell me how many hours you played, and from those how many are actually a RGM with AI as opponents.

    my personal experience dictates that they do settle, they do attack and they do fight back. what difficulty do you play? squire? if that is the case you should scale up, and try to put an AI in you team and just watch what he is doing. you should see that he would expend and attack like normal players do.

    #213441

    sharknoise
    Member

    I’ve tried a couple of random generated maps, first a middle-sized one with several King AI’s, then the largest one with 7 Emperors, and they:
    a) never declare war on me
    b) never accept an alliance proposal from me
    This doesn’t make sense. If my empire is so developed that they are scared to attack, why do they reply they want stronger allies and decline my proposal? Our alignments are identical, and the relationship count is very high (I’ve sent a ton of gifts beforehand). So I’m sitting on several seals and waiting for the imminent victory, while the Emperors do not care to stop me or join me.

    #213612

    emky
    Member

    I’m sure the Civ IV AI had huge bonuses, at high levels, and possibly even cheated (although I guess that depends on your idea of what cheating means). Regardless, the AI was challenging and fun to play against.

    Emphasis on fun as much as challenging. At the even-on (no real bonuses or penalties in production over the player), the AI can manage to attempt an offensive war. It will actually produce and send armies your way. Early in the game, it will actually expand and try to improve its economy (I want to pull out my hair each time I get to an AI domain and see things in it that were never cleared! And the capital defended by a settler it never sent out…).

    It’s true that Civ has an advantage — it doesn’t have the tactical layer. But it has all sorts of other layers it has to track at the strategic level. And most people are agreeing that tactical AI is sufficiently fun. It’s strategic AI that needs to get better. And, none of us are expecting an AI to defeat us without cheating. We just want it to be fun to play against.

    #213863

    pardon me Lord MartialDoctor, could you tell me how many hours you played, and from those how many are actually a RGM with AI as opponents.

    my personal experience dictates that they do settle, they do attack and they do fight back. what difficulty do you play? squire? if that is the case you should scale up, and try to put an AI in you team and just watch what he is doing. you should see that he would expend and attack like normal players do.

    I’m all for criticism of my post but you should at least read it before making a remark.

    As I said in my original post, I’ve been playing on AI Lord. I could up that one to the highest level but that wouldn’t make that much of a difference if the AI still has the same underlying issues.

    I’ve played both against the AI and with the AI as teammates to watch what they do. In total, about 7 games or so. So, not a whole lot, but enough to get a good enough impression of what the AI is doing.

    They do expand but slowly. This was my point. If they do settle, it is also slowly.

    If this was just me, then there wouldn’t be other players who also agree with my impression.

    #213898

    I’m all for criticism of my post but you should at least read it before making a remark.
    As I said in my original post, I’ve been playing on AI Lord. I could up that one to the highest level but that wouldn’t make that much of a difference if the AI still has the same underlying issues.
    I’ve played both against the AI and with the AI as teammates to watch what they do. In total, about 7 games or so. So, not a whole lot, but enough to get a good enough impression of what the AI is doing.
    They do expand but slowly. This was my point. If they do settle, it is also slowly.
    If this was just me, then there wouldn’t be other players who also agree with my impression.

    tiring, ofcourse I read your posts and all the other “posts”. but that doesn’t mean that I directly accept what you and the “others” are posting.

    Like more players suggested already you should first try to play against a higher level AI and then come here again claiming they are to passive and not challenging. playing on easy and then come on this forum to cry that the enemy is to easy just shows your lack of fortitude.

    #213899

    NINJEW
    Member

    If you play Multiplayer, these problems disappear entirely

    It’s obviously not a perfect solution, but one worth considering

    For what it’s worth, the people saying “try playing against 5 Emperor AIs allied against you!” are people who have basically mastered the game, while you’re still only 7 games deep. That’s not a statement on the AI meaning “that’s how much anyone needs to stack against themselves to have a challenge,” that’s a statement on the AI saying “that’s how much I, a person with at least 300 hours in this game, need to stack against myself in order to have a challenge. If you’re not finding things challenging enough, maybe try what I do?”

    Personally I thought the AI was fairly engaging around Knight level when I played before, though that was a very long time ago and my understanding is that they ahve since tweaked its dogpile behavior a bit so every AI on the map doesn’t suddenly turn hyperagressive as soon as you show the slightest bit of weakness. I transitioned to a lot of MP after though, which is far more fun than playing against the AI ever was, if occasionally a bit of a headache. Once you feel confident in your abilities, I’d personally recommend trying it out. There’s a ridiculous number of people who seem desperate for a game to play the moment one is available, so I find that it’s extremely easy to find a game once you start messaging people and asking if they’re available. Usually a 5-10 minute affair for me.

    In any case, if you find the AI is lacking, you should probably try one of the difficulties above “one level above literally braindead” before you come to the forums to complain about the AI. You don’t need to be playing 7 Emperor AIs in a team against you to be unhappy with the AI, but I think it should be understandable that most people have assumed that you’ve played higher end difficulties if you find the AI too easy, or might be a bit frustrated when they find that, as our honorubu anime overlord put it, you have come to the forum to complain about the easy difficulty AI being too easy.

    #214047

    emky
    Member

    If you play Multiplayer, these problems disappear entirely

    But uncountable other problems appear. Mainly, that the game is now multiplayer and infinitely less fun because you’re dealing with other people.

    #214058

    NINJEW
    Member

    But uncountable other problems appear. Mainly, that the game is now multiplayer and infinitely less fun because you’re dealing with other people.

    Conversely: the game is now infinitely more fun, because you’re dealing with other people

    The many secret chats and dealings and agreements and backstabbing that goes on in FFAs is far more fun than anything single player that I’ve ever experienced, and also something that can’t be reproduced at all by a machine. This is in addition to the greater depth of tactics and strategy offered by adapting your gameplay to someone else, who is also adapting their tactics and strategy to you.

    I honestly don’t know what your problem is at all, unless you’ve been playing purely with jerks or are extremely antisocial

    #214090

    Hell frozen over and the kingdom of heaven is in ruins, that I and Lord Ninjew are in an agreement is something I didn’t anticipate to see in such a short time.

    honorubu anime overlord

    only have to react on this, it is add least the Magnificent Honorubu anime Overlord. but I let that slide for now.

    But uncountable other problems appear. Mainly, that the game is now multiplayer and infinitely less fun because you’re dealing with other people.

    I get it when you don’t like playing against other players Lord Emky some people just don’t like playing against others or don’t have the spine to do so. (this can be improved by just facing players and not being afraid to lose.)

    but for now that is not the point.

    yesterday I did a game with a friend to train him a bit, playing on Lord against 3 AI’s to give him more breathing space to get intro the game. But the dwarf rogue I was facing didn’t want to have anything to do with passiveness. The amount of shadow stalker rushes I faced was not as described by our friendly OP and his expansion was faster then I am used from them. So once again I do doubt a bit about the settings he is playing. start small with many roaming independent on a large or extra large map should be enough to make the AI allot more engaging without making the game extremely hard.

    (I should add that I was playing a race, class and spec combination I never used before and I did have a very unlucky start and some completely rubbish combat rolls but still it shouldn’t be that different from the OP)

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