Another Race Class Combo Thread (Now with more Google docs)

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Another Race Class Combo Thread (Now with more Google docs)

This topic contains 65 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  NINJEW 6 years ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 66 total)
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  • #221452

    I’ve been compiling all the various opinions from around the forums and trying to do my best to rank each combo for each race.

    Here is the document:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mEWw3VDKFrsCaHt-JB0e4OV4OTPb5_ADYrfODuGYL7k/edit?usp=sharing

    How to use:
    Pick a race or class from the respective table, it then lists from best to worst the combo you can choose.

    Obviously none of these are 100% correct or done, but I’d like to get a discussion started around each one. This can be useful in a number of ways, can merge the discussions to one place, and can perhaps identify combos (or races) that need some help. Feel free to comment here or directly on the sheet itself.

    #221463

    Good work. This is probably more useful than the usual chitchat, certainly more accesible than wading through more threads.

    🙂

    #221476

    llfoso
    Member

    Hehe – poor orcs.

    One issue with this is it’s a bit misleading, since some of these are a lot closer than others. Like theocrat. The power gap between an orc and elf theocrat isn’t really that significant, while the difference between an elf and orc AD is gigantic.

    #221483

    NINJEW
    Member

    i’d argue humans are better than dwarves for dread. the production bonus on the production class is just so good, and evolving cav + priests makes for some powerful racial options too. dwarves mostly just get powerful racial options, their biggest advantage over human dread is that their support also benefits from armored and you can pull some stupid shit with mana fuel cells and firstborn if you go into the late, late, laaaate game. humans, meanwhile, have economic strength, a stronger support heal for racial strats, an evolving unit (great for cost efficiently making use of a secondary city!), and in the late game their racial governance makes amazing things happen (mass produced gold golems! arguably broken!), while dwarf racial governance mostly just supports going in for more dwarven units all the way through.

    at the very least, humans and dwarves are equivalent.

    #221484

    NINJEW
    Member

    One issue with this is it’s a bit misleading, since some of these are a lot closer than others. Like theocrat. The power gap between an orc and elf theocrat isn’t really that significant, while the difference between an elf and orc AD is gigantic.

    also yeah, this is most evident with warlord. that list may or may not be a correct ranking, but none of those races are bad at all war warlord. even halfling is a “top pick” of sorts, it’s just arguably the “least top”

    as for AD, i’ve never really heard of dwarf AD being all that great. meanwhile, orc AD is actually pretty nifty.

    also orc and goblin are really good necros what is this

    #221485

    NINJEW
    Member

    halflings should be a high tier rogue. so should humans

    #221486

    NINJEW
    Member

    among the warlord “tiers” humans should definitely be top, not middling, as well. though again, everyone’s really good with warlord, so

    #221489

    One issue with this is it’s a bit misleading, since some of these are a lot closer than others. Like theocrat. The power gap between an orc and elf theocrat isn’t really that significant, while the difference between an elf and orc AD is gigantic.

    I totally agree with this. Something I eventually want to do is separate each into tiers to indicate larger separations like this.

    i’d argue humans are better than dwarves for dread.

    I would agree, but it seems to be a point of contention. What’s the general consensus here everyone?

    halflings should be a high tier rogue. so should humans

    Noted, I’m sure there are quite a few things that need to be reordered, then we can move on to separating the “tiers”

    #221493

    llfoso
    Member

    Also elf WL should definitely be above dwarf.
    Frostling rogue shouldn’t be near the bottom of the frostling list – certainly above dreadnought. Not sure why frostling dreadnought is in the middle, I’d knock it down a couple tiers.
    I’m not sure about halfling necro being the top. It gets strong later, but early on things are pretty rough and that makes a big difference.

    #221495

    llfoso
    Member

    One issue with this is it’s a bit misleading, since some of these are a lot closer than others. Like theocrat. The power gap between an orc and elf theocrat isn’t really that significant, while the difference between an elf and orc AD is gigantic.

    I totally agree with this. Something I eventually want to do is separate each into tiers to indicate larger separations like this.

    You could use the colors to show that. Purple is strong and red is weak. That would be quite simple.

    #221530

    NINJEW
    Member

    I’m not sure about halfling necro being the top. It gets strong later, but early on things are pretty rough and that makes a big difference.

    i thought the big halfling necro advantage was being able to get early access to more healing without having to rely on reanimators

    #221531

    NINJEW
    Member

    in any case, the top necro races as i’ve always heard were goblin, orc, halfling, and frostling, not necessarily in that order.

    goblin and frostling are great because of being able to stack lifesteal, halflings get a racial support heal that functions on undead as well as memories of joy reanimators, and orcs get cursing reanimators as well as very good racials, which combos well with necro’s racial focus.

    #221533

    ExNihil
    Member

    Disagree that everyone is good as WL.

    Humans are top WL and DN. Tigrans top AD

    #221538

    I made some updates to the orders as discussed above, please continue to critique. I’ll work on the coloring soon as well.

    #221539

    NINJEW
    Member

    Disagree that everyone is good as WL.

    who the fuck isn’t?

    #221540

    ExNihil
    Member
    #221541

    ExNihil
    Member

    No race is *bad* with WL, but Dwarfs for example are not good.

    #221542

    Aren’t you arguing semantics here Ex?

    Ninjew is saying, basically, if I understand him correctly, that every WL combo is viable, has something good going for it.

    I think, personally, that Orc WL is arguably the weakest one as it stacks physical ontop of physical and double stacking is always vulnerable, in this case to elemental attacks, of which there are plenty.

    Of course you could argue that double stacking us effective, and it certainly can be.

    Goblin also has low resistance but can pump out troops very quickly. Massed Warg riders and then Big Beetles is always entertaining. Plus Berserkers help round out Goblins physically that they don’t do so much with Orcs.

    #221549

    ExNihil
    Member

    In my book when someone writes ‘everyone’s really good with warlord’, he probably means to say exactly that, and I see a big difference between viable and really good – Orc Sorcerer is viable, Goblin Sorcerer is good, Draconians are really good. Maybe it’s semantics, but than that is hardly my exclusive sin in this forum 😃.

    I agree Oscs are problematic, but their irregular, t2 cav. and fast walking t3 are much better than what Dwarves offer on top of very expensive units – and their crucial Forge Priests are very expensive for WL, so Orc Victory Rush is superior IMO.

    #221552

    Moloc32
    Member

    Pity to see goblins rated so low 🙁 my favourite race.

    #221553

    NINJEW
    Member

    In my book when someone writes ‘everyone’s really good with warlord’, he probably means to say exactly that, and I see a big difference between viable and really good – Orc Sorcerer is viable, Goblin Sorcerer is good, Draconians are really good. Maybe it’s semantics, but than that is hardly my exclusive sin in this forum

    i’d say “really good” means pretty much exactly what BBB described. draconian sorcerer and frostling sorcerer is more what i’d call “dominating” rather than “really good,” since they’re less “a great option” and more “head and shoulders above all other competition”

    #221554

    NINJEW
    Member

    Pity to see goblins rated so low :( my favourite race.

    hey i said that they make good necros. they’re also great warlords. really anything that lets them pump out lots of butchers/stack the buffs on butchers.

    #221556

    ExNihil
    Member

    Alas don’t argue with someone says he disagrees every race is good with WL, if that is not what you actually mean.

    Anyhow, why is Goblin Necro good? Because of weakening? Or the cheapness units? Seems to me there is a huge degree of redundancy here, blight res./immunity is redundant, wet land foraging doesn’t work. Pop growth doesn’t exist. So what am I.missing?

    #221557

    Goblin Sorc used to be rated pretty low. Thoughts?

    I think the summons round off the racial units. I have to disclaim that by saying I’ve not used it much lately.

    Last real time I used it I faced off against a Dwarf Sorc…who had a giant dwelling.

    We ended up trading capitals etc, and I eventually got him with my invisible floating leader stack. It was an epic game but I could/should have leveraged it better. I was going for massed darters and doctors which might have been a mistake against massed machines…

    Was a long time ago, but my impression is that it’s a much more viable class.

    #221561

    NINJEW
    Member

    pop growth very much does exist, and is very important for the class with very slow pop growth that also loses pop on rushing (which is also the only way to get anything done with your necro cities). i believe the 15% bonus works on pop gained through killing, though i’m not 100% sure on that. the wetlands pop bonus rg is really nice for small necro cities, since it can help give them a population growth resembling what a normal class might get.

    goblin reanimators are the cheapest (or among the cheapest, ahven’t double checked that ranking) and also deal more damage. butchers are very, very good. you can give them more health through embalming, and their life steal stacks with vampiric hunger (throw on shadowborn for mass produced life drain). access to weakening means that you can make normally blight immune targets vulnerable to your blight damage nonsense that necro has a ton of anyway. embalmed swarm darters are also really good, since between that and RG you can actually make them fairly tanky, when usually they’re pretty fragile to balance out their high tactical use. the fact that they start in blight is also a pretty nice upside, since necro benefits quite a bit from blighted terrain. beetles are also the easiest t3 to mass produce barring cav evolve shenanigans (not exactly an option outside of early game/super late game), which is pretty helpful to the poor necro economy (goblin units being cheaper in general is pretty nice)

    all in all things add up pretty well for them

    #221562

    ExNihil
    Member

    Goblins are at a good.place with Sorcerer, weaken on BD and blight dmg on apprentices coupled with the upgrading of UG and cheapass units did wonders for them. I’d rate ’em 3rd or 4th.

    #221564

    ExNihil
    Member

    I see, tnx Ninjew.

    #221602

    Buczer
    Member

    I’m really surprised that you guys consider goblins a good rogues. From my experience they are extremely vulnerable and easy to hard counter. In comparison to human rogue they are also less versatile. Goblin WL is a way better IMO. Also, i would argue that human rogue is good, conperable to human sorcerer, wich do not benefit much from human bonuses. I always though human sorcerer is “so solid its average”, while human rogue at last benefits from increased strategic mobility.

    #221619

    NINJEW
    Member

    yeah human rogues are pretty sweet if you go for assassins. they aren’t as good as the tigran high mobility or draconian fast healing assassins, but water concealment is a huge boon. in a continents or islands map, i’d say they’re absolutely the best assassin race. that production bonus is pretty helpful for rogue too

    #221639

    vota dc
    Member

    Why Goblin archdruid so bad? Shaman are among the best, they also can buff the trolls with archdruid upgrades.

    The other classes have more problems with Goblins imho (Dread – lack of armored units, Theocrat – lack of hp for martyr, Rogue – less unit that gain dual channel since blight is often already present) I don’t know what are the issues with archdruid, maybe the goblin hunter is quite bad.

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