AOE attacks should never miss

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions AOE attacks should never miss

This topic contains 33 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  Fenraellis 7 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 34 total)
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  • #203559

    Nerdfish
    Member

    AOE attack, including spells, should not be avoided by luck.
    It make no sense a halfling can avoid a wall of fire just because he’s lucky.
    It doesn’t matter how lucky he is when the entire area is on fire.

    Basically, AOE could be made into counter for luck, you can still remove the incredibly frustrating chain misses if you spam firebomb / chain lightning / ECT ect ect.

    #203569

    Wallthing
    Member

    Gap in the flames. Tripping into a convenient hole while the wall of fire passes over. Nearby object that is a better ground for the lightning than a halfling. I could go on; I’ve seen this debate in the past with other games of all sorts about saving throws, other luck mechanics, tests, resistance, etc. ad nauseam.

    I don’t know about game balance but halflings seem to pay a lot for their luck.

    #203574

    Bouh
    Member

    It doesn’t matter how lucky he is when the entire area is on fire.

    You underestimate how luccky he is. He survived a genocide already !

    #203638

    Trying to apply some kind of rational logic to the lucky mechanic is pointless.

    #203671

    Gloweye
    Member

    Smaug uses AoE effects to, but some Halfling managed to survive it all…

    Not that it’s conclusive, but there’s precedence.

    #203678

    Smaug3
    Member

    Smaug uses AoE effects to, but some Halfling managed to survive it all…

    Not that it’s conclusive, but there’s precedence.

    Wrong. I always hit halflings.

    #203856

    Stormwind
    Member

    Smaug uses AoE effects to, but some Halfling managed to survive it all…

    Not that it’s conclusive, but there’s precedence.

    Wrong. I always hit halflings.

    ROFLMAO! Perfect setup by Gloweye!

    IN paper and pencil D&D you could have a 60 point fireball and a high level monk can be standing at point blank range, make his save and take zero damage. He ducked out of the way!

    There are no shortage of things in games like this that make no sense, just have to live with it. If I have Creation spec, why do I have to wait for a battle to cast heal? Why cant I just cast it on the strategic map? Well, simple answer is (continued on next post)

    #203876

    Nerdfish
    Member

    Gap in the flames. Tripping into a convenient hole while the wall of fire passes over.

    The halfing will still die to Asphyxiation and Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

    IN paper and pencil D&D you could have a 60 point fireball and a high level monk can be standing at point blank range, make his save and take zero damage.

    Improved Evasion is a class feature for Monks and Rogues. Normally a successful reflex save half the damage from such attacks, not negate it.

    Point being the luck is the most infuriating mechanism in the game, and can be made uncounterable in any number of situations: torchbearers, undeath, ect.

    #203898

    Bob5
    Member

    If you read the unit descriptions of Ham the Wanderer you’ll notice after a while just how lucky halflings can be, it’s magical luck, not ordinary luck.

    On a more gameplay related note, I think the lucky mechanic is quite funny. Sure sometimes it’s infuriating to play against but it gives Halflings a bit of an all-or-nothing feel, if it doesn’t trigger they’re just so fragile. And there are some methods to lower their morale, like Choking Fumes, Dread Siege, Damnation, Poison Domain, and some others. Can’t get lucky against those. Lower their morale below -200 and they won’t get lucky at all anymore. Lucky is what makes halflings unique and what separates their playing style from other races.

    #203901

    Nerdfish
    Member

    if their playstyle is being really annoying to everyone else.
    They need another style.

    #203907

    Bob5
    Member

    if their playstyle is being really annoying to everyone else.
    They need another style.

    I don’t see all that much people agreeing with you that it’s really annoying. If you don’t mind I’ll take the claim that it’s really annoying to everyone else with a grain of salt. I do know there are players aside from you also think it’s infuriating and annoying, but I don’t think it’s a large majority.

    #203908

    Smaug3
    Member

    if their playstyle is being really annoying to everyone else.
    They need another style.

    Look, you can’t just start a post, have ten people agree with you, and then claim that it’s annoying to everyone. I certainly don’t find it annoying, and I bet many others don’t. Regardless, as Bob5 said, you can play around it. Use morale lowering spells, change the terrain, just try something you haven’t tried before.

    #203909

    Lycutena
    Member

    It’s not annoying to me. Part of the problem here is I think luck is actually balanced around making area of effect attacks missing.

    #203917

    Hatmage
    Member

    My personal problem with luck is it’s a non-tactic. In a game where most abilities are rather predictable, and the outcome of any given tactic is rather consistent, lucky sticks out as something that grants benefits without requiring or really allowing much planning. Furthermore, it devalues single shot abilities like muskets, charges and, most damningly, offensive magic.

    If it were to activate more often, but only halve damage, it would be something we could plan around better, and less disproportionately punishing to single shot attacks, while still serving its’ role as something to reward good morale management and terrain choice.

    #203925

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    Luck is something that people who like randomness will find fun and those who like predictability will be annoyed at.

    Sure I’ve found it annoying when my T4 prepares their massive attack and it misses completely due to luck. However I find it a rather fun mechanic. It requires you to pay more attention to morale and has given rise to all sorts of spells bolstering and weakening morale. At the vanilla release morale was almost a pointless mechanic. Now it’s quite involved. I think luck had a lot to do with that and I for one like it. It just takes the critical, normal, fumble paradigm and adds another level to it: critical, normal, fumble, miss.

    #203929

    Stormwind
    Member

    Every race has something special to it. I think luck is just fine, it helps halflings be unique. How many ways can you make a race unique? high defense, low defense, more hp’s, fewer hps….this is just another way.

    #203950

    Nerdfish
    Member

    My personal problem with luck is it’s a non-tactic. In a game where most abilities are rather predictable, and the outcome of any given tactic is rather consistent, lucky sticks out as something that grants benefits without requiring or really allowing much planning. Furthermore, it devalues single shot abilities like muskets, charges and, most damningly, offensive magic.

    Luck is far from fine.
    I wouldn’t mind if halfling do massive amount of critical damage when they have high morale. But the way luck works now makes it impossible to kill one unit with your entire army sometimes, which is just annoying.

    Offensive luck requires the halfling to do something, not just stand there and tank enough firepower to level a small country.

    #203963

    zeelilus
    Member

    My personal problem with luck is it’s a non-tactic. In a game where most abilities are rather predictable, and the outcome of any given tactic is rather consistent, lucky sticks out as something that grants benefits without requiring or really allowing much planning. Furthermore, it devalues single shot abilities like muskets, charges and, most damningly, offensive magic.

    Luck is far from fine.
    I wouldn’t mind if halfling do massive amount of critical damage when they have high morale. But the way luck works now makes it impossible to kill one unit with your entire army sometimes, which is just annoying.

    Offensive luck requires the halfling to do something, not just stand there and tank enough firepower to level a small country.

    So you’re saying you’d rather have a halfling adventurer potentially one shot most of a druid’s unit pool?

    #204004

    Hatmage
    Member

    Is there anything wrong with the idea of luck forcing fumbles, rather than misses? It would, as I have previously mentioned, make it less disproportionately cruel to cavalry, spell casters and every single dreadnought unit. And it better models a few halflings in a unit dodging, rather than some ludicrous synchronised dodge.

    #204007

    Usana
    Member

    If the chances of Lucky activating were appropriately increased(or the Halfling’s weakness decreased) to account for the weakened ability I would probably be fine.

    That said I have always find ‘super dodging’ amusing rather than annoying(well it can be annoying gameplay wise). It is just hilarious watching someone dodge something when they shouldn’t be able to. It is part of the reason Haschel from Legend of Dragoon is my favorite character in that game. Basically there are several attack animations in the game that shows your characters getting punched through walls or something equally egregarious. Since Haschel has such high dodge it isn’t uncommon to see him flip back to his feet without taking any damage and having a big MISS appear on the screen after being smashed through a wall. I tell you it was hilarious! You just ran him through with a spear? No sorry, but even though we all saw it go through his chest apparently you missed. Ah, the good old days!

    #204023

    Capirex
    Member

    Personally i love the luck mechanic.

    Dodging hits and especially spells makes halflings really special and can disrupt the enemy strategy.

    And halfling are susceptible to morale lowering abilites so there is a counter to their main strenght, they also give up the raw streght of other races in exchange for this advantage.

    #204130

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Legend of Dragoon

    <3 What a fun and lovely game. It also had some of the best cgi movie scenes of its time.

    #204146

    quo
    Member

    Lucky is fine. Unhappy Halflings = no Lucky.

    Having it not work on AoEs would be unbalanced considering what they pay to get it. 20% Physical Weakness is no joke. If they couldn’t luck out of that, Fire Cannon (30 damage base) would flatten armies.

    #204436

    Nerdfish
    Member

    quo, in some situations they cannot be made unhappy. You could either avoid them, or put up with the annoying invincible midgets.

    If they are defending a city, you can’t change the terrain, if they have boaster, you have to disjunct it every turn. If they are theocrats you are basically SOL.

    #204443

    thabob79
    Member

    I really like the auto fumble instead of miss.

    #204450

    zeelilus
    Member

    If it’s switched to auto fumble then you have to drastically reduce the physical weakness, or remove it entirely. While it can be annoying to have your unit miss, I don’t think halflings are by any means over powered. If they were you’d have a dozen threads about how nobody plays anything but halfling now.

    #204497

    vyolin
    Member

    If they were you’d have a dozen threads about how nobody plays anything but halfling now.

    If this were a competitive game with a large MP playerbase, you might be right. It is not, though, so people are much more likely to just complain about Halflings not being fun to go up against – or more specifically, the luck mechanic.

    As it stands, Luck is a sometimes infuriating vestige of the games predecessors, but luckily you can at least influence it somewhat.

    #204640

    zeelilus
    Member

    If they were you’d have a dozen threads about how nobody plays anything but halfling now.

    If this were a competitive game with a large MP playerbase, you might be right. It is not, though, so people are much more likely to just complain about Halflings not being fun to go up against – or more specifically, the luck mechanic.

    It may not have a “huge” player base, but it has a large enough one that things that are unbalanced (or sometimes things that are fine) get changed eventually. Elven Sorc used to be stupidly strong, it’s now slightly less so. While Halfings are annoying, they’re not really overly powerful from what I’ve seen, so I doubt there’ll be a major change.

    #204652

    Ravenholme
    Member

    If it’s switched to auto fumble then you have to drastically reduce the physical weakness, or remove it entirely. While it can be annoying to have your unit miss, I don’t think halflings are by any means over powered. If they were you’d have a dozen threads about how nobody plays anything but halfling now.

    Agreed, lucky is fine. We’ve got some very impressing MP theorycrafters out there who have tested most things to destruction and found the OP combinations, and interestingly enough, Halflings don’t figure in ANY of them (Except for a few proponents of Halfling Necromancers).

    Lucky is fine, and for how the Halflings get lucky and dodge these things, as someone said – look at all the things that Ham the Wanderer gets through.

    #204654

    Gloweye
    Member

    We’ve got some very impressing MP theorycrafters out there who have tested most things to destruction and found the OP combinations, and interestingly enough, Halflings don’t figure in ANY of them (Except for a few proponents of Halfling Necromancers).

    They’re strong, not OP. Difference.

    Also, the -1 Def for Ghouls stacks very badly with the 20% physical weakness, and all other class supports also offer +200 Morale for the party.

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