AoW II – why tactical battle changed? :(

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions AoW II – why tactical battle changed? :(

This topic contains 15 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Jayaris 9 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
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  • #3441

    Fikol
    Member

    Hi,

    First of all I’m extremelly happy that AoW III is coming! I can’t wait to get it!

    But… One of the key reasons of me playing AoW II for hundreds of hours and at least couple of years (after a few years brake I returned to it again) was tactical part of the game meaning battles. They were tactically complex, one of the kind, with important positioning, movement, flanking, huge options, high range catapults and so on and on. The thing that helped was great distances that adversaries started the battle which enabled lots of tactical options . What I see on a gameplay trailer is similar to Heroes, Elemental Fallen Enchantess and many more…and these have very limited tactical options. If the tactical part of AoW III would resemble it’s predecesor I would stick to the new game for another hundreds of hours.

    Regarding remaing parts of trailer I’m extremelly satisfied with graphics, complexity, animations, music and so on! Since it’s pre-alfa the final product will be simply breath-taking!!

    I wonder if it will be possible for modders to change tactical part….

    What is your opinion?

    #3459

    AoW never had flanking (unless you simply mean “moving from the side/rear”) before, it does now.

    My opinion is that the video displayed a pretty good array of tactical options and the distance really isn’t all that different from previous AoW games. If you remember, in AoW2, fast cavalry units could get a single attack off on an opposing unit on turn 1 while regular infantry would generally end their movement somewhere in the middle which is the same as what we saw here.

    I do admit that the turn 1 dragon attack was quite devastating.

    #3492

    Low_K
    Member

    True, flanking was never in AoW.

     

    What disturbs me the most about the Alpha gameplay video is, that the Bone Dragon just gets hit by melee units. What happened to a flying Bone Dragon which could only be hit by ranged attacks?

    I agree on the fact it resembles the battles of Fallen Enchantress and graphically it’s Civilization V. Not a bad thing though.

     

    Kind regards,

     

    Low

    #3499

    Fikol
    Member

    well, I described it wrongly, I was meaning manouvering and tactical reaaranging your units as to be able to make a refused flank to some extend…  not to prolong I believe AoW II had the best approach towards tactical battles ever developed so far.

    #3507

    BlaneckW
    Member

    “What happened to a flying Bone Dragon which could only be hit by ranged attacks?”
    They defended nodes, and I would juts assume avoid them than waste units.

    #3539

    Tartantyco
    Member

    The only actual difference I see is that the battlefield is tiny. Meeting armies have always met on opposite sides in AoW/SM, just like in the gameplay video. But the battlefield size here was just horrible, no room for maneuvering or setting up armies – flanking armies would almost start on top of other armies.

    Large battlefields is what is needed.

    #3545

    Rand
    Member

    It seems like they are still tweaking the battlefields; perhaps not the size, but starting distance.

     

    “As a reply to your biggest concern: We recently played around with different options on how to handle the first round of combat, and still need to tweak starting distance etc.”

     

    http://www.ageofwonders.com/topic/news-from-gdc/

     

    #3547

    Oldschool
    Member

    I agree. Large battlefields is what we need!

    No “HeroesOf… Volume 47 blabla” Game please 🙁

    If you call it AgeOfWonders… then please do a AGE! OF! WONDERS!

    I really liked AoW and AoWSM. I wish the best for AoW3.

    #3553

    Stryges
    Member

    I am generally not a fan of the smaller battlefield. For example, in the beta of Legendary Heroes for Fallen Enchantress, the battlefield is frustratingly small. I think it removes tactical options and creates a system where you basically churn out the fastest units you can until you are overpowered and then wipe out the world.

     

    I think there is a bigger problem going on with the forum user base right now though. Many, MANY threads have been comparing what the saw to HoMM. First, it is very difficult from the short video to make many definite assertions (that never stopped the internet eh?), second, I think the issue is player perception at this point. People are thinking it looks like HoMM because it is 3D. We have never scene a 3D AoW. We see a 3D AoW. Instead of looking at the whole picture, we get our knickers in a bunch by associating it with the nearest 3D fantasy TBS we can.

     

    So, how about we get our knickers, untwist them juuuuuuust a little, and keep an open mind.

    #3584

    Oldschool
    Member

    It is just because… we all love the old AoW games and we hope they dont mess up the series. This happens too many times today. (ResidentEvil, FinalFantasy…)

    #3587

    Fikol
    Member

    exactly! What I would love to see is EXPAND the AoW II also in terms of battles and not streamline it…. just add some features, improve AI, give more options… not to make battlefield smaller…. you have UNIQUE opportunity to make something outstanding from the mentioned games…

    have you seen Battle of Wesnoth by the way? I hope it will not be perceived as advertisement… but I’ve been playing it for almost 10 years in spite of “oldschool” graphics and 2D… its best rpg/tactic game that I came across especially when you add mods…

    by the way… I’ve just purchased both AOW on Steam and have fun 🙂

    #3589

    BlaneckW
    Member

    The length of battles is a concern for non-pbem play.  However, they should address this problem by allowing you to check your email, skype and edit documents in the game.  I also have several insane suggestions.

    #3596

    Piko LV
    Member

    @fikol – I agree Battle for Wesnoth is a great game. It have got great singleplayer, brillant multiplayer and wonderful modding support. Do you wanna make your own MP map? Ok. Do you wanna make your own campaing Do you wanna make your own unit? Ok. Do you wanna make your own multiplayer faction and give other players possibility to play on it? Ok. Do you wanna make asskicking scripts making awesome things in a scenario? Ok. Do you wanna download some of these? No problem! You have got fewteen default campaings, fewteen MP maps and tons of others too download in-game. And everything of this is completely free! Lol. Your post maybe isn’t, but my definitely is an advertisement. Sorry for offtopic, buddies. ;P

    #3651

    Zozma
    Member

    Insofar as I know, we’ve only seen one battle, which is hardly an indicator of what the game will offer. Even then, it looked pretty similar to AoW2, the only key difference being that flying units didn’t fly.

    AoW2 had a fair bit going for it, tactically, but not all at once. The player went into battle with a small selection of units, meaning they’d have a small selection of abilities and options to draw from, as was the case for AoW2. Different units would have meant a different battle.

    Can’t say much for battlefield size, but if the average foot soldier can only make it about halfway across the field (which seems to be the case), I’m pretty content. The important thing about distance in AoW2 wasn’t just that units might not be able to attack a turn, but they wouldn’t be able to get off their three attacks. Taking 2 turns to hit an enemy once is more or less what I remember AoW2 foot soldiers being able to do.

    I haven’t heard whether or not multiple party battles (three stacks of units vs. three stacks of units) have been removed, but if they have I’ll be pretty disappointed. I’m curious to see ranged combat and combat magic in battle, as well; imo, those two things were underbalanced in the original games.

    #3655

    bam65
    Member

    Anybody remember a game called ‘Conquest of the New World? Now that was a small combat map. Not only that but it used square hexes.

    #3663

    Jayaris
    Member

    Abilities like AoE probably shouldn’t be usable after you hit the yellow range of AP. The regular units still took an extra turn to reach each other.

    I would like the map to be a little bigger, and for none of that first turn special ability shenanigans. Using your full AP to rush forth and make one singular regular attack is fine, or making a single archery volley is fine.

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