Archdruid Balance Discussion

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions Archdruid Balance Discussion

This topic contains 11 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  sinobas 3 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #252163

    Mac Aoidh
    Member

    Archdruid Balance Discussion

    Friends, we have a problem and that problem is the Archdruid.

    Let me rewind a bit. I recently got back into competitive multiplayer, and after a few brutal games with the likes of Lightform, SEER, and others, I was left scratching my head. What is it about the archdruid class that feels so underwhelming? I kept playing, losing, and playing more, but I was still left with an aching feeling in the pit of my stomach.

    Currently, the archdruid excels in tier 2, around the early-mid point of the game. Right around tier 3 into tier 4, the Archdruid’s power dips off drastically, so much so that it’s difficult to face any other class head on. There are a lot of reasons for this, and I will go over them all, but perhaps the biggest problems we face with the archdruid are Blight damage, overcosted and underpowered empire upgrades, and the evolving of animals in live multiplayer.

    As it stands, the Archdruid primarily deals blight damage. Our primary unit, the Shaman, deals exclusively blight damage (with a few racial exceptions), and the Dread Spider Queen, Hunter Spider Queen, King Reed Serpent and Mature Reed Serpent all deal blight damage. Here’s the issue: Blight damage is the most resisted damage type in the game, by far. Here’s the breakdown:
    All Undead units: 100%
    Machines: 100%
    Shadow Stalkers: 100%
    Eldritch Horror: 100%
    Dwarves: 20%
    Goblins: 40%

    I understand some classes should counter others, but not at a point where it’s 100%. Undead have full blight protection and I think this is a serious design mistake. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to fight a necromancer with 100% blight resistance, but it isn’t fun – in fact, it’s downright silly. I literally can’t deal damage, and that’s not fair. Personally, there’s no reason why undead should have 100% protection, they should have 60-80%, especially since they can cover their other weakness in upgrades.

    Here are my proposed changes:

    Shamans: High Elves, Halflings, Goblins, Dwarves should replace Poison Bolts with Bane Fire (3 Spirit, 3 Fire, 3 Poison). Orc Shamans currently have this, and I think it’s very much in the elements of nature. The other races have their appropriate racial damage types, and those should remain.

    Hunters: Hunters are overcosted for T1 units, as we need to be making a lot of them for offensive and defensive purposes. Reduce the production cost by 10, raise gold cost 5. What is truly ironic is that other classes have access to flying birds and scouts in the first turns of the game, while we do not. The hunter needs to be reduced in cost because it fulfills all the roles the Druid plays in the early game. It’s also incredibly squishy unit, so it doesn’t need to be so expensive.

    Ancestral Spirits is arguably the worst spell in our class. Summoning a T2 unit for 20 casting points simply does not compete with the other classes, especially considering we do not keep the unit after the battle should it survive. Make it cost 10 CP, or upgrade it into a 40 CP T3 skill (with appropriate research cost) as a battlefield enchantment that summons an Ancestral Spirit on a random hex on the battlefield on each combat round for the caster. The skill is named “Call Ancestral Spirit” and I think that would be fitting.

    Hunter’s Finesse: Hunters aren’t used in T3 or T4 battles, since their low hitpoints mean they can easily be one shotted. Upgrade this to include Shamans.

    Long Strider: Long Strider gives +8 movement speed for archers and support units, which is cool, but not for Tier 4 upgrade costing 400 research points. Lower this to T3 with Research cost 200 and give the Sprint ability to archers and shamans. The Sorcerer, our alternative class, floats it’s summoned units, and most of them are flyers as well. I think this upgrade in particular just doesn’t make the impact that a spell should have, hence the slight buff.

    Animistic Knowledge: This is one of my favorite empire upgrades, but I think it’s overcosted at 350 research points and a tier 4 skill. This upgrade does nothing but make other upgrades cheaper, so it should be a T3 skill – it has to gain an advantage in multiplayer games where the games end around turn 40. Reduce it to T3 with 250 research points.

    Our class buildings are very underwhelming, which contribute to why our class falls off so hard in the later game. Arch Druid’s Dolemn is fantastic, but Henge and Megalith are just simply bad. Henge really doesn’t make sense at all to me – it costs 50 gold, 100 mana and gives 100 population growth. That’s it. There’s no incentive to build this, so I never do. Mana is a very precious resource for the AD, so the cost does not justify it. Upgrade the bonus to 100 mana capacity and +10 mana per turn, and upgrade Megalith to include +10 Casting Points. Casting points are our primary resource with mana, and it’s very difficult to summon a full stack of T3-T4 units, especially if you’ve lost a battle. Getting that CP bonus for a T3 class building is badly needed. A quick look at other class Tier 3 buildings will confirm this is needed.

    Animal evolution: I know this has been talked about before, but one of the hardest hits to live multiplayer autocombat is the archdruid. We are a class that was simply not meant for autocombat at all, which is a travesty considering we cannot avoid it. Autocombat hurts us the most because we can’t save, protect or intentionally level our animals, which are the core of our forces. The solution is simple: downshift evolving to take place at the Expert rank. It doesn’t make sense to have a unit finally evolving at Gold only to be a Recruit unit of the next tier, so I think this should be easier without being overpowered. Note that this proposal is only directed for live multiplayer, not PBEM or single player. Alternatively, you could grant Resurgence to Tier 1 animals who can evolve and have them immediately lose the Resurgence when they evolve. Evolving was designed as one of the core attributes of the class, and not being able to actually protect them puts at a severe disadvantage to the other classes.

    Let me know your thoughts. Please note these changes are directed toward live multiplayer competitiveness. Thanks!

    • This topic was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  Mac Aoidh.
    • This topic was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  Mac Aoidh.
    • This topic was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  Mac Aoidh.
    #252198

    Fluks
    Member

    Necro is somewhat special so I’ll leave it out here, maybe hunter and shaman could get the undead slayer trait (like rogue units get) in my mind it’d actually make more sense for shamans to get it than for scoundrels and assassins…
    Bane fire for shamans sounds OK, but by splitting up the damage you’ll fare worse against everything that doesn’t have blight protection late game due to the high resistivities, so maybe you’d end up doing less damage on average and I don’t know if thats worth it :/
    I think production is directly coupled with gold + mana cost so I don’t know if your hunter changes will work. Also while hunters are quite squishy it is as fast as other scout units, has forest concealment and beats basically all other scout units in combat. Maybe +1 vision range on veteran could be good, but I think they are quite usefull already. Also lone strider could take care of this maybe (+1 vision range and +8 movement for shamans and hunters) giving Sprint is overkill imho research points could be reduced maybe. I wonder why you didn’t mention domain of poison, thats one overpriced spell that does nothing but clutter the spellbook, much worse than ancestral spirit imho.
    I agree with you on class buildings and animistic knowledge, but disagree heavily on making Animal evolution easier or even giving resurgence. I mean theocrat has to get lvl 11 and spent something like 15 skill points to make only 1 stack have resurgence and you want to give it for free to half the cheap ass T1 summons. That they can evolve at all is pretty strong already (compare e.g. rogue who has to research in order for 1 of his unit types even get evolve…)

    #252203

    Zaskow
    Member

    Currently, the archdruid excels in tier 2, around the early-mid point of the game. Right around tier 3 into tier 4, the Archdruid’s power dips off drastically, so much so that it’s difficult to face any other class head on. There are a lot of reasons for this, and I will go over them all, but perhaps the biggest problems we face with the archdruid are Blight damage, overcosted and underpowered empire upgrades, and the evolving of animals in live multiplayer.

    Tigran AD feels pretty ok, thanks to transforming shamans. Blight resistant enemies? No problemo – transforming into deadly OP killer machine – Dire Bear. If this thing would be expanded on all variants of shamans, AD will play in a new fashion.

    I understand some classes should counter others, but not at a point where it’s 100%. Undead have full blight protection and I think this is a serious design mistake. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to fight a necromancer with 100% blight resistance, but it isn’t fun – in fact, it’s downright silly. I literally can’t deal damage, and that’s not fair. Personally, there’s no reason why undead should have 100% protection, they should have 60-80%, especially since they can cover their other weakness in upgrades.

    Main design mistake was giving to AD 0 abilities to counter undeads – spells, skills, abilities, whatever. Blight damage is problem too, but this is different story…

    Shamans: High Elves, Halflings, Goblins, Dwarves should replace Poison Bolts with Bane Fire (3 Spirit, 3 Fire, 3 Poison). Orc Shamans currently have this, and I think it’s very much in the elements of nature. The other races have their appropriate racial damage types, and those should remain.

    This buff would have minimal effect. Yes, you can strike for 3 dmg, instead of 0, but this doesn’t fix problem at all.

    Hunters: Hunters are overcosted for T1 units, as we need to be making a lot of them for offensive and defensive purposes. Reduce the production cost by 10, raise gold cost 5. What is truly ironic is that other classes have access to flying birds and scouts in the first turns of the game, while we do not. The hunter needs to be reduced in cost because it fulfills all the roles the Druid plays in the early game. It’s also incredibly squishy unit, so it doesn’t need to be so expensive.

    Problem with hunter goes from wrong design decision. This must not be mobile archer with concealment. This must be mobile scout with concealment and bow as nice addition.

    Ancestral Spirits is arguably the worst spell in our class. Summoning a T2 unit for 20 casting points simply does not compete with the other classes, especially considering we do not keep the unit after the battle should it survive. Make it cost 10 CP, or upgrade it into a 40 CP T3 skill (with appropriate research cost) as a battlefield enchantment that summons an Ancestral Spirit on a random hex on the battlefield on each combat round for the caster. The skill is named “Call Ancestral Spirit” and I think that would be fitting.

    Agreed here. Spirits must be buffed.

    Hunter’s Finesse: Hunters aren’t used in T3 or T4 battles, since their low hitpoints mean they can easily be one shotted. Upgrade this to include Shamans.

    Could be problematic. Shamans don’t use physical weapons.

    The Sorcerer, our alternative class, floats it’s summoned units, and most of them are flyers as well.

    Funny thing, but with long strider AD units are more mobile, than sorc units which have 28 MP mostly. Sorc has 0 flying units, BTW, all floating.

    #252227

    Mac Aoidh
    Member

    So after having more conversations with people on Steam, I wanted to clarify and outline some more appropriate solutions:

    Shamans: Giving Bane Fire to the current High Elf, Dwarf, Halflings and Goblins would be a mistake for two reasons: the damage would overall be less, even if split into three elements. The blight damage still wouldn’t affect Undead, Machines and Shadow Stalkers, and the Holy damage would still hurt us against Machines. So, Fairy Fire is our best option. Fairy Fire would give shift us into lesser resisted damage types, but still leave us open to getting countered fairly hard by Draconians and Sorcerers, but would finally alleviate the 100% counters by Undead, Shadow Stalkers, and Machines. I’ve heard from a few people that this would be the best option.

    Class buildings: People seem to universally agree that our class buildings need some work. After some research, I discovered the produce Shaman requirement from our class 2 building was knocked down into our class 1 building by a Triumph update, which is great. The problem currently, however, is that there is no incentive to upgrade further. For Henge, upgrade the bonus to 100 mana capacity and +10 mana per turn, and upgrade Megalith to include +10 Casting Points. The costs for upgrading are high, and Casting points are our primary resource with mana, and it’s very difficult to summon a full stack of T3-T4 units, especially if you’ve lost a battle. Getting that CP bonus for a T3 class building is badly needed. A quick look at other class Tier 3 buildings will confirm this is needed.

    Long Strider: Let me show you guys a simple comparison here. In vanilla, the Sorcerer School of Teleportation costs 140, but in Griffith’s multiplayer mod, it’s a Tier 3 upgrade costing 240 Research points. Here’s what it does:

    Support units receive training to travel between the planes of reality for short periods of time. As a result of the training, they receive Projectile Resistance Projectile Resistance and the Phase Phase ability.

    Long Strider gives Shamans and Hunters +8 movement speed as a Tier 4, 400 research point spell. This is simply way overcosted. My suggestion would be to bump it down into a Tier 3 upgrade costing 240 points.

    Ancestral Spirits: A simple increase to Silver rank for the summoned unit would help tremendously. Some players I talked to like the spell but agree it needs a little push.

    Animal evolution: Players I’ve talked to and the players here can’t seem to agree on a solution, but lowering the evolution medal from Gold to Silver may help. As I’ve said before, it’s nearly impossible to level the animals in multiplayer autocombat, so I do think we need a tiny bit of help here.

    After discussions, it was realized the Dreadnought, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Necromancer classes all counter the Archdruid. Dreadnoughts have long been a very hard counter as they completely obliterate us with long range canons, Rogue’s Shadow Stalkers ignore our blight damage, 60% physical, and float over our Twisting Roots; Sorcerer’s can detect our invisible units, float over our Twisted Roots, and are mostly immune to our Horned God’s lightning strike due to shock resistance; Necromancer’s obviously ignored all our blight damage and can overwhelm our animals with their constant Raise Dead abilities. The class still needs work.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  Mac Aoidh.
    #252247

    Fluks
    Member

    I agree with most of what you write, but really don’t think things are as grim as you paint them.
    If you check the-battlefields live mp statistics arch druid actually wins 51 % of their games (of course 55 games are not a really big sample size). Against Dreadnought there is Rust strike, Rogues have only 1 unit that annoys you and that comes late game and can be dealt with the bigger shock serpents and every racial support (except halfling, goblin and frostling). Against sorcerors you have blight damage. Necro maybe, I don’t want to complain too much but yeah necro has several units with blight and/or physical protection so that might be a slight problem. Maybe the “favourite enemy” empire upgrade could get “undead slayer” added.

    On animal evolution: It’s not that it would be a bad spell to strengthen your army on the go with a cheap T1 that has nice synergies and a higher mobility than most T2 units. Even without the evolution trait this is valuable, no need to make it even better imho.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  Fluks.
    #252258

    Zaskow
    Member

    Against Dreadnought there is Rust strike

    If you think that 1 spell can counter whole class, I have bad news for you. While Rust Strike is amazing spell, it can’t deal with massed machines, coz you would need a lot of CP.

    Rogues have only 1 unit that annoys you and that comes late game and can be dealt with the bigger shock serpents

    Well, shock serpent has physical dmg mostly, stalker can’t be stunned, so serpents aren’t very effective against them.

    #252281

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I kind of disagree with a lot of the points made, the one thing I (ve already changed in a private mod) would change is, every Shaman with Poison Bolts should also get Weakening (like the Goblin Blight Doctor) – and then let’s see where that leads to.

    #252494

    Griffith
    Member

    Shamans: Giving Bane Fire to the current High Elf, Dwarf, Halflings and Goblins would be a mistake for two reasons: the damage would overall be less, even if split into three elements. The blight damage still wouldn’t affect Undead, Machines and Shadow Stalkers, and the Holy damage would still hurt us against Machines. So, Fairy Fire is our best option.

    Could consider this idea, or test it at least. I put fairy fire on high elves on previous mp mod update, to see if it changes anything. Although it might make elves even more favoured choice as an AD, so maybe could think of some more elegant solution.

    That weakening which JJ suggested might be also be worth trying, but im afraid it might be bit op. (when combined with things like hornet swarm) Perhaps with medals..

    Long Strider gives Shamans and Hunters +8 movement speed as a Tier 4, 400 research point spell. This is simply way overcosted. My suggestion would be to bump it down into a Tier 3 upgrade costing 240 points.

    Longstrider works both in strategic and tactical map though, unlike phase, which works only on tactical map. So I think the current higher cost for longstrider is justified. +8 movement on strategic map is a big deal.

    Class buildings could be made more interesting, but I guess that goes for any class. Dunno if the current class buildings for AD are bad compared to their cost.

    Also dunno about making AD animal easier to evolve, I think the whole point is that its bit of a gamble to evolve them, not a sure thing.

    Animistic knowledge certainly seems to cost more than the sorc research upgrade, but perhaps animistic knowledge is bit better. And the techs from other classes arent ment to be perfectly comparable anyway. Do druid players generally think the tech is too expensive?

    Problem with hunter goes from wrong design decision. This must not be mobile archer with concealment. This must be mobile scout with concealment and bow as nice addition.

    Interesting way to look at it. But doesn’t druid alrdy have the wyverns fairly early for better scouting?

    #252506

    Mac Aoidh
    Member

    Griffith, thanks a bunch for the Fairy Fire. I think it makes sense on High Elf since lightning is our racial channel, and fairies thematically flows with the druid. From my games, I have seen quite an improvement. Some classes, namely the Draconian Sorcerer and Necromancer, resist the new damage types, but overall I think it’s a definite improvement over the insane amount of resistances from blight damage.

    The problem with Animistic Knowledge, like so many of the Archdruid empire upgrades, is that it is massively overcosted. Even when I start the research as early as turn 5, the 10 turns it takes to complete greatly outweighs the future research improvement it provides, unless the game lasts for 50-60 turns, which in multiplayer I honestly never see happening. The Sorcerers early Tier 1 Arcane Study gives them a signifant research boost over us; ours is Tier 4 and takes many, many turns to research the 350 points. That early game Sorcerer upgrades just goes miles beyond since it only costs 80. The overlying problem I’ve identified is that it’s not just one but most of our spells which closely mirror the Sorcerer class are significantly overcosted but only offer marginal benefits, often leading to a massive shift in power to the Sorcerer.

    We don’t have any early flying scouts at all. Our earliest is a chance at summoning a Gryphon at Summon Eldritch, which comes after Summon Animal and Hunter. So around turn 10, and the flying animal is not guaranteed by any means. Our early scouting is the weakest of any class, which is hilarious. Flying units are generally just pretty amazing when scouting. My tier one land animals get ganked by roamers every game.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  Mac Aoidh.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  Mac Aoidh.
    #252808

    driveby
    Member

    This doesn’t really tackle the sorts of difficulties I recognize but I’ll first try to engage the issues as you framed them.

    Regarding blight damage; to put it simply: the interactions of damage types and resistances are not balanced. Undead attacking Elves? Get wrecked. Undead attacking Goblin Theocrat. Be disappointing. Sorcerer vs Machines? Prepare for the stunpocalypse. These effective/ineffective scenarios determined by start conditions (that might have been random) are endemic to AoW’s magic damage/resistance systems. They confer distinct advantages and disadvantages what are simply there; are not really determined by player choice during the strategic & tactical turn and can’t necessarily be mitigated when they exist.

    The point is that the broad weakness/elemental-attack-type advantages & disadvantages that can’t necessarily be mitigated by player choice after class/race selection are fairly endemic to AoW3. Already you have your Draconians, Orcs, Frostlings, & Tigrans if you like your shamans to be able to have alternatives to blight damage. The Arch Druid certainly isn’t the most extreme case in the game of resistance mismatches. I Perhaps something like “Throw Enchanted Javelin” (10 phys 6 lightning or spirit) as a thrown bone to all those blight restricted shamans would allow for at least something to do against those blight immune enemies if what you must do is damage. Its worth nothing the ways in which Frostlings inflict minor stacking weaknesses represents something of a growth in the understanding of these all or nothing resistance issues from vanilla.

    I’d remind that shamans are support and the real strength lies in the, usually mortal affliction, of entangle. And – turn 1 applications of Awaken Spirit are a significant means of the Shaman’s force projection.

    Hunters: How are they overpriced? They seem like improved versions of most races t1 archer unit – bring greater health, defenses, and other unique abilities like bleeding wounds and superior movement. I will admit that Hunter’s Finesse & Favored Enemy are rather underwhelming empire upgrades and in some cases ( Tigrans w/ Hunter’s Finesse & Orc Razorbow ) the research is redundant and adds nothing of value. Whether or either race *needs* a bonus is moot. A game feature, if it exists, should never be useless. I think these lackluster empire upgrades might be a good place to apply some softening of the blight damage problem. Giving hunters upgraded hunters inflict “weakness (not weakened)” 9or10 physical resist-check – applies -1 armor and 20% blight weakness for 2t (stackable). It would be a means of softening the blight issue while introducing some synergy to class defining units.

    Ancestral Spirits: How have you not found this spell useful? If you’re focused on the value in auto battles. Maybe. I don’t know whether or not the spell is prioritized to be cast in a useful manner in auto battle but I find it to frequently be one of the most useful abilities at the cost for taking on difficult sites. Creating a tough (60% physical protection) that can tie up a hard hitting physical focused enemy for several turns is invaluable. I’ve seen it keep a manticore rider away from my forces for two turns. How is this not useful? How many tactical combat summons are there at a measly cost of 20 mana? I find this to be one of the most useful hero upgrades for the investment compared to peers. Getting additional units into a tactical combat beyond stack limits very powerful. Ancestral Spirits is the cheapest means of doing this in the game. Their shield and physical protection mean that they will very likely succeed in draining multiple actions from enemy units and its not uncommon uncommon to see them outright kill a t2 unit and continue having battlefield effect at no risk to your other living units. How many other 20 mana spells can do that?

    Ancestral Spirits is a good spell. Maybe it suffers slightly from aging poorly into end tier battlefield casting (as many early spells do) and could benefit from some scaling benefit. Give a medal to the base effect for each level of Summon ___ Animal starting at Eldritch? A neat idea but this is already an effective spell.

    How can you not like Long Strider? It’s a powerful upgrade. Shamans and Hunters outrun horses (MFKING HORSES M8). Furthermore your hunter IS your scout and after acquiring Long Strider they go from being a good scout to a fantastic scout that can wreck and outrun any other single t1 scout unit.

    Animistic Knowledge: I suppose I’d call this a boring upgrade. Without some number models of just how much this accomplishes I find it difficult to gauge just how much it does for the caster.

    Druid Class Structures: Other class structures provide little to no persistent benefit. I’m not sure that those buildings simply being necessary to provide those class units make them more valuable on their own. Have you built any Rogue Planar gates lately for whopping +5 production? The bonuses of Druid Class structures are pretty well in keeping with his peers. I think you’re undervaluing city growth in the case of the Henge. Though, giving one rank to mounted units with the Henge would be thematically consistent and add some meaning to the Druid’s animal kinship (more on mounted unit synergy later). The Megalith the best mana income/capacity returns for the price. It’s already a pretty good deal.

    I have mixed feelings on unit Evolution. I find it to be one those annoying game features that’s wildly inconsistent in its effect. Its one of those things that varies wildly from potentially very powerful to a complete waste of time depending on circumstances not necessarily in the player’s control. It should be noted that for 40 mana summons *most* of the animals have pretty decent stats for t1. I just think a little greater consistency is in order. If all the t1 animals had the evolve trait I’d be considerably less broken up about that single spider I had pinned my hopes upon and it’d make evolve statistically likely to have some relevance over the course of 40 mana summons which eventually an Arch Druid will find passe compared to higher summon tiers.

    I have a criticisms of the Archdruid but my list is considerably different than yours; attempting to avoid ranting too many pages I’ll try to be brief.

    Many spells are extraordinarily limited in usefulness:

    Rust Strike could stand to have greater benefit vs armored units.

    Twisting roots: I think I’ve used it once or twice; only when playing high elf due to the access to archers without ranged penalties.

    Vengeful Vines: any spell limited only to city sieges remains the type of ability ignored until very specific conditions might be met. It should be noted that the addition of the flowrock citadel has greatly devalued this spell.

    Insect Plague: seems like this would make units or citizens slightly unhappy; or both.

    Wild Growth: little more than a cheaper terraforming option for High Elves; though in some cases where mana income/reserves are high using Terraformer is better because it doesn’t consume casting points.

    Savage Rage and Awakened Spirit: while the Arch Druid would be thematically expected to always have some beasts in tow his isn’t necessarily the case as the casting point bottleneck, most animals having relatively low defenses, and always being summoned at recruit level makes for a fairly high turn over. You may not necessarily have a beast on hand or not one that can make significant use of the spells. I think it would make a lot of sense to add alternative effects applied to mounted units. It certainly makes sense that a the Arch Druid would have bonds with mounts than non druids so why not?

    eg Awakened Spirit on mounted unit: +2 physical (melee) +1 defense +4 movement
    eg Savage Rage on mounted unit: Killing Momentum for 2 turns

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by  driveby.
    #252891

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Since I’m in some kind of creative modding frenzy at the moment, I made an Arch Druid Mod, that does the following:
    It will give all Shamans except the Tigran, that do not have an alternative to Poison Bolts either an alternative (Elves), Weakening Touch (Goblins) or Weakening Touch on silver medal (rest of PB only).
    It gives AD a new strategic spell that is essentially a cheap one-hex version of Wild Growth because
    it also gives AD a new Empire Upgrade INSTEAD of Hunter’s Finesse that will give ANIMALS something like Wetland Foraging (only for Dense Veg and with slightly better Reg),
    it makes Favored enemy a 280/T3 tech and lastly
    it gives AD a new Empire Upgrade, T5 for 500 Knowledge, needs Beast Mastery and Produce Shamans, that will give all ANIMALS essentially the Frostling Pikeman PoP ability, only for all AD heroes, Hunters and Shamans.

    I haven’t tested it for balance, yet, although it looks like everything works, that’s why I’ll only upload it, if there are people who are interested in trying it.

    #259078

    sinobas
    Member

    Wow, you think ArchDruid is underpowered? I think it’s the most powerful class. Have you ever lead an stack of Horned God’s into battle? They are the most powerful unit in the game, especially as they level up. Call lightening/entangling attack/and they can summon a fairly powerful boar unit.

    Hunters in general are weak with a BIG EXCEPTION, High Elf Hunters kick ass. You can mass produce them and they are cheap. On top of that, the druid class can reasearch bonuses that give them floating, and projectile resistance, and ignore line of sight penalites.

    You can mix them synergistically with spells like twisting roots. Also, a Shaman’s value is not in their attack. It’s in their ability to entangle other units.

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