Balance based on hard data from the PBEM tournament (continued)

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions Balance based on hard data from the PBEM tournament (continued)

This topic contains 246 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  StephenDat 2 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #246140

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Thanks to marcuspers (on the BF’s chat), we have the following new Priority changes:
    GC12
    Units acquired during a fight (mind-controlled or ghouled) start with 0 MP on the strategic map

    AD04
    Archdruid Heroes and leaders’s Healing is Once per battle (was cooldown 2)

    Th03
    Theocrat Heroes and leaders’s Healing is Once per battle (was cooldown 2)

    #246199

    Gilafron
    Member

    I suggest making Invoke Death attack Physical instead of Spirit. I’ve seen a warlord hero with the Strong Will stack ability make clearing out a lich tower easy. The banshee screams and invoke death become useless against the stack since they are both spirit-based. Thoughts?

    #246200

    Gilafron
    Member

    I also have another suggestion for healing. I proposed two modifications to healing:

    1. It is once a battle for everyone. AD04 and Th03 indicate heroes only. I suggest for all units.

    2. If Healing isn’t changed to once a battle for everyone, then I suggest that Healing should Regenerate all units in their stack. It doesn’t make logical sense that I would have to extend a battle intentionally in order to heal more. If healing regenerates the stack, it lessens the need to extend the battle for a stupid reason. Granted, someone may extend the battle to heal so their unit is stronger until the start of their next turn. But, if I could completely heal a unit during a battle, why can’t I heal that unit between turns?

    #246201

    Gilafron
    Member

    I guess I already proposed #1 for healing previously. Vacation caused me to forget 🙂 Feel free to disregard. However, I still suggest #2 from previous post. Or maybe combine #1 and #2 since the argument against #1 was that it was too harsh, but #2 is a buff. So, Healing is once per battle for all units and Healing regenerates the stack between turns.

    Question on Ne06d (Ghoul Strike not affecting units with mind control abilities), is it possible that the Ghoul requisite could remove the mind control ability? That is, if I ghouled a nymph, the nymph would lose Charm? If possible, that makes more sense to me.

    #246203

    Zaskow
    Member

    That is, if I ghouled a nymph, the nymph would lose Charm? If possible, that makes more sense to me.

    What the sense to have nymph then if she will lost charm?

    #246216

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Following feedback from Lightform:
    All these are officially confirmed (they were actually already implemented in the mod):
    AD06a
    Leaders and heroes’ Befriend Animal has strength 10 (was 12). When Summon Eldritch Animal is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 12 for its leaders (not heroes).

    Ne08a
    Leaders and heroes’ Control Undead has strength 6 (was 8). When Summon Banshee is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 8 for its leader (not heroes).

    Ro16a
    Leaders and heroes’ Charm has strength 7 (was 9). When Produce Bard is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 9 for its leader (not heroes).

    Th08
    Leaders and heroes’ Convert has strength 9 (was 11). When Produce Evangelist is researched by the player, its strength is improved to 11.

    Confirmed for v1.18:
    Ne10
    Necromancer heroes and leaders can choose Raise Corpse at level 1 for 4 points (was free and from level 0, i.e. inherent ability)

    So08
    Sorcerer heroes and leaders can choose Inflict Stun for 6 (was 5)

    #246224

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I suggest making Invoke Death attack Physical instead of Spirit. I’ve seen a warlord hero with the Strong Will stack ability make clearing out a lich tower easy. The banshee screams and invoke death become useless against the stack since they are both spirit-based. Thoughts?

    Yes, I’ve seen that too. But I don’t like the idea of making Spirit attacks become Physical attacks (like has been proposed for Energy Drain).
    I think it makes sense for Warlords to have this advantage against these sites and against Spirit attacks. Maybe it’s underpriced though? I don’t know. I clearly underestimated that ability before but I am not yet convinced it is too strong.

    1. It is once a battle for everyone. AD04 and Th03 indicate heroes only. I suggest for all units.

    Yeah, Lightform proposed that too. What benefits would you give to Theo in exchange? Because that would significantly weaken Order of Healing and Evangelists.

    2. If Healing isn’t changed to once a battle for everyone, then I suggest that Healing should Regenerate all units in their stack.

    Do you mean make it like Healing Aura?

    ==
    These 2 changes really need more feedback before round 2 of the tournament:Wa04
    Death March costs 40 CP to cast (was 20)
    Wa05
    Researching Death March allows to cast Death March for 40 CP (was 20) and Individual Death March for 20 CP, which has a similar effect. Individual Death March can only target 1 stack of 1 T1 Irregular (and units can only be targetted once by Death March or Individual Death March).

    And one last thing, Zaskow pointed out Elf and Halfling Juggernauts would lose movement capacity when we will remove their Tree Crusher ability (in v1.2), so what about:
    Dr17a
    Juggernauts produced in Halfling and Elf cities have Forestry

    #246233

    Lightform
    Member

    Hiliadan
    Lightform wrote:

    1) I would add a T3 reward to spring of life ( like black bear that is non flying )

    Why? I think the game has already too many ways to increase in strength very quickly and what we need is way to slow it down, not speed it up.

    // Yeah maybe you are right. It just seems that the defender strength requires a better reward than a boar. What if you just made it a T2 only reward set.. like an improved farm ?

    Zaskow
    Lightform wrote:

    * Or, maybe make it require 3 action points but increase it’s range to medium. This means that the defender has some idea of what will be in range of what, rather than all of the pouncing units being able to hit almost anywhere. It also means that they can use up the pouncing units MP and prevent it doing a pounce on it’s turn.

    Medium range is too big.

    // How the heck can you know that… have you tried it already ? Consider how the 3 action points changes everything. If you attack or move past the unit causing an Op strike it negates the pounce ability. It also means that the unit can’t move more than 2 hexes and then pounce. SO EFFECTIVELY ( this means the range is smaller than the current one, which is the units entire movement range + 3 hex pounce ) What is your reasoning ?

    Hiliadan
    Sure but it will be hard to make all heroes strictly equal. There is always some luck in the game and removing it would make it dull. So we should deal with the most crazy heroes (like the one with Charm who has been modified) but accept that some heroes are very strong. As long as they cannot win game by themselves, it’s ok. So, if Aegelis, Balo or Sheila need to be changed, let’s focus on them only.

    // Yeah fair enough. I’ve never considered Aegelis to be too powerful, but definitely Sheila is ridiculas. If you want my opinion on the various heroes I could make a list ?

    Hiliadan
    Lightform wrote:

    AD12
    This one sounds ok, but I wonder if it might make them too useless if the evolve at champion one is also included ?

    AD13
    Same as AD12

    According to preliminary research by cbower, it’s actually not technically feasible to make evolve at Champion.
    So I put you “for” both.

    Ne11

    Not clear if you’re in favour of this one?

    // Yes to all of these.

    Hiliadan
    Lightform wrote:

    Ne12
    I think this one might be a bad idea due to the fact that necro units are non healing. The living races have all sorts of healing available to them, the necro player only has necromancers or the odd well until reanimators.

    Yes but if you think about it, you can select it as soon as you reach level 2, it’s not that long. It just slows down Necro a bit, which is the main objective.

    // Oh.. I was meaning to respond to whether necro starts with a non necro hero option which I think is a bad idea.

    #246234

    Lightform
    Member

    Hiliadan
    Lightform wrote:

    defender can retaliate

    We should not forget that Pounce is initially a ranged attack for Tigran’s Irregular, the Cheetah, which should be similar to all Irregulars’ ranged attack. So allowing defenders to retaliate on Cheetah is NOT a good idea. However, that could be a good idea for other units which have Pounce.

    //// Hmm.. well it isn’t quite the same as the other T1, they have a cooldown on their “range” It effectively gives them a 1 shot no retaliation, then they become melee units. Maybe if we changed pounce to retaliate we could give them a small HP and def bonus ?

    Hiliadan
    Lightform wrote:

    * Is it possible to make it a class ( range ) and there for suffer LOS penalties ? ( This would offer the defender some ability to protect themselves ).

    It’s possible, but this change opens way to use pounce as teleport through walls (it’s impossible now). Editor doesn’t let to set both options: only Blocked by Obstacles or only Range damage fall-off.

    So I assume you drop the proposition Lightform?

    //// Yeah it wouldn’t be a good move to let units pounce up walls.

    #246235

    Zaskow
    Member

    // How the heck can you know that… have you tried it already ? Consider how the 3 action points changes everything. If you attack or move past the unit causing an Op strike it negates the pounce ability. It also means that the unit can’t move more than 2 hexes and then pounce. SO EFFECTIVELY ( this means the range is smaller than the current one, which is the units entire movement range + 3 hex pounce ) What is your reasoning ?

    I know because almost all range attacks in game are medium. It’s pretty easy for pouncing units to counter archers if they try to kill tigrans from distance. Of course, you can try to go melee, but this is what Warlord plans.

    #246238

    Draxynnic
    Member

    We should not forget that Pounce is initially a ranged attack for Tigran’s Irregular, the Cheetah, which should be similar to all Irregulars’ ranged attack. So allowing defenders to retaliate on Cheetah is NOT a good idea. However, that could be a good idea for other units which have Pounce.

    //// Hmm.. well it isn’t quite the same as the other T1, they have a cooldown on their “range” It effectively gives them a 1 shot no retaliation, then they become melee units. Maybe if we changed pounce to retaliate we could give them a small HP and def bonus ?

    One thought that might be worth considering is making a new version of Pounce. The cheetah’s, and possibly the dire panther’s, is the current version, while berserkers and manticores can have a nerfed version.

    #246239

    Lightform
    Member

    // How the heck can you know that… have you tried it already ? Consider how the 3 action points changes everything. If you attack or move past the unit causing an Op strike it negates the pounce ability. It also means that the unit can’t move more than 2 hexes and then pounce. SO EFFECTIVELY ( this means the range is smaller than the current one, which is the units entire movement range + 3 hex pounce ) What is your reasoning ?

    I know because almost all range attacks in game are medium. It’s pretty easy for pouncing units to counter archers if they try to kill tigrans from distance. Of course, you can try to go melee, but this is what Warlord plans.

    What are you even saying !
    *All range attacks are medium…
    so ?

    *It’s pretty easy for pouncing units to counter archers if they try to kill tigrans from distance.
    I am not sure if you are referring to now, or after my proposed change ? Even if it had a medium range, if it required 3 action points to execute then the range will be decreased from the current pounce. Are you listening ?

    *Of course, you can try to go melee, but this is what Warlord plans.
    What is that supposed to mean ? That if you try to avoid going range because it gets hard countered by my proposed pounce by going melee, that you are fighting vs WL’s strength ? If this is what you mean then as I have just mentioned, my suggestions are to NERF pounce. Pounce that requires 3 action points and has medium range + retaliate is definitely a nerf.

    I don’t know if it’s the right way to go. As Drax above has suggested, maybe beserkers and manticores just need a different skill in place of the current pounce. Either way, the statement that medium range is too long just sounds so off hand and ill considered. Maybe it is too long, but how could you know without trying it.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by  Lightform.
    #246242

    Hiliadan
    Member

    // Yeah maybe you are right. It just seems that the defender strength requires a better reward than a boar. What if you just made it a T2 only reward set.. like an improved farm ?

    Spring of Life’s rewards are actually:
    Hunters
    FELHORSE
    GRYPHON
    FAIRY BUTTERCUP
    FAIRY TOADSTOOL
    FAIRY NIGHTSHADE
    NYMPH
    UNICORN
    I think most are ok. Maybe remove Fellhorse?
    But again, my personal opinion would be to decrease other sites’ rewards rather than boost this site’s.

    // Yeah fair enough. I’ve never considered Aegelis to be too powerful, but definitely Sheila is ridiculas. If you want my opinion on the various heroes I could make a list ?

    Yes, please do!
    And what to give Sheila instead? Maybe a non-flying mount? Like a Unicorn Sire? Or a Dire Panther? (http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Items/Mounts)

    (by the way, use the QUOTE button to quote people 😛 you can select the text you want to quote, then click on “quote” on the top-right of someone’s post)

    // Oh.. I was meaning to respond to whether necro starts with a non necro hero option which I think is a bad idea.

    Ok, right. But 25 HP healing every turn and every combat + the Raise Cadaver and Lesser Reanimate Undead gives sufficient healing with just 1 Necro hero. Giving 2 Necros at the start just makes it too easy and fast to expand.

    As Drax above has suggested, maybe beserkers and manticores just need a different skill in place of the current pounce.

    Yes, I think that’s the best thing to do: keep Cheetah and Dire Panthers as they are now (or at least Cheetah) and modify Berserkers and Manticores.
    They could get “Jump” (for lack of a better name), short range (because it doesn’t make sense to jump 5 hexes!), allow retaliation and gives “Dizzy” for 1 round (-2 def) or something like that.

    #246349

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Key topics to debate now:

    v1.18 (for round 2 of the 2vs2 PBEM tournament):
    GC15
    Dominate cannot be added to items built with the Arcane Item Forge

    AD10
    Baby Spiders and Serpents evolve on Champion grade (was on Elite)

    AD10a
    Baby Spiders and Baby Serpents get the abilities of their evolved state (Spider Queens and Mature Serpent) on Elite, namely:
    Dread Spider Baby: Inflict Severely Poisoned
    Hunter Spider Baby: Inflict Enfeebling Fever
    Vampire Spider Baby: Inflict Exhausting Fatigue
    Baby Reed Serpent and Baby Shock Serpent get +4 MP

    AD12
    Baby Spiders have an intermediary T2 step in their evolution:
    Dread Spider Baby evolves into Mature Dread Spider Baby:
    HP: 48; Def: 10; Res: 10; MP: 32
    Melee Strike: 8 physical, 5 blight
    Abilities: same as Dread Spider Baby, 60% (40%) Blight Protection, Evolve (Dread Spider Queen)
    Hunter Spider Baby evolves into Mature Hunter Spider:
    HP: 43; Def: 10; Res: 10; MP: 36
    Melee Strike: 8 physical, 5 blight
    Abilities: same as Hunter Spider Baby, 60% (40%) Blight Protection; Evolve (Hunter Spider Queen)
    Vampire Spider Baby evolves into Mature Vampire Spider:
    HP: 44; Def: 10; Res: 10; MP: 32
    Melee Strike: 8 physical, 5 blight
    Abilities: same as Vampire Spider Baby, 60% (40%) Blight Protection; Evolve (Vampire Spider Queen)
    AD13
    Baby Serpents have an intermediary T2 step in their evolution: Adult Serpents

    AD17
    Independent Spiders and Serpents lose the Evolve ability (only summoned and produced units keep it)

    Ne11
    Necromancer heroes and leaders can choose Heal Undead at level 1 for 3 points
    Ne12
    Necromancer starts with a random hero (was starts with a Necromancer hero)

    Wa04
    Death March costs 40 CP to cast (was 20)
    Wa05
    Researching Death March allows to cast Death March for 40 CP (was 20) and Individual Death March for 20 CP, which has a similar effect. Individual Death March can only target 1 stack of 1 T1 Irregular (and units can only be targetted once by Death March or Individual Death March).

    v1.2:
    GC06
    The Healing ability of heroes and leaders (Theocrat and Archdruid upgrade and item’s ability) can be used only Once per battle (was 2 turns cooldown)
    GC16
    Pounce requires 3 action point and has Medium range (was no action point and Short range)
    GC17
    Pounce allows retaliation by the defender (was no retaliation)

    AD01a
    Call Beast Hordes summon 6 animals per round during 2 rounds with the following chances to summon units of certain tier: T1 – 45%, T2 – 35%, T3 – 20%
    (instead of 4-5, time to life – to 4 rounds, T1 – 43%, T2 – 30%, T3 – 20%, T4 – 7% in current version of the balance mod)

    AD04
    Archdruid Heroes and leaders’s Healing is Once per battle (was cooldown 2)

    Ne09a
    Energy Drain has a physical strength 10 (was spirit strength 10)
    (instead of Energy Drain has a spirit strength 10 chance of draining 20 of the target’s MP and is non-stackable in current version of the balance mod)

    Th03
    Theocrat Heroes and leaders’s Healing is Once per battle (was cooldown 2)

    Other key topics to discuss:
    – how best to nerf Pounce? Current proposal: keep Pounce only for Cheetah and maybe Dire Panthers. Tigran Berserkers and Manticores get a nerfed version (allow retaliations and gives “Dizzy” for 1 round (-2 def) or something like that)

    #246353

    gladis
    Member

    Good ideas; I´m in for the most of them:

    FOR: GC15, AD12, Wa04, GC06, GC16 (but I would prefer 2 action points and short range!), AD04, Th03

    If AD12 is not possible, it should be at least AD10+AD10a

    AGAINST: AD17 but maybe reduce the number of serpents/spiders at sites
    GC17 I think it would be still very strong. As they are in guard mode, the tigrans won´t take that much damage and the attacked unit could get tired.
    So it COULD be in favour of the tigran player?

    Im not sure about Ne11/12: In a current game, I think i would´ve had a major struggle if I wouldn´t have got a Ne-heroe.
    I would prefer if the heroe is chosen by accident like in other races, but maybe it would be too harsh.
    But if a Ne-heroe is still offered in the first round, they should be nerfed I think.
    So I would say FOR Ne11, AGAINST Ne12
    Maybe it is possible to have undead-healing in Ghoul-cities inherent?
    So you could heal parts of your troops there if you only have one Healer?

    No input to: AD01a, Ne09a (too less experience)

    Definitly FOR nerfing Tigran Berserkers and Manticores.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by  gladis.
    #246358

    Hiliadan
    Member

    GC16 (but I would prefer 2 action points and short range!)

    Unfortunately, as far as I know, it is not possible with the mods to require 2 action points to use an ability.

    Following this feedback, this is new priority change:
    Wa04
    Death March costs 40 CP to cast (was 20)

    Maybe it is possible to have undead-healing in Ghoul-cities inherent?
    So you could heal parts of your troops there if you only have one Healer?

    I don’t know what other thinks but I feel like Necro already has sufficient ways to heal its troops, especially with 2 heroes. In live MP, it is probably different because of auto-combat but in PBEM, I don’t feel it lacks healing.

    I added the following proposed change:
    Wa06
    Tigran Berserkers and Tigran Manticores have Jump: short range ranged attack similar to their melee attack, which allow retaliation, put them in Guard mode but with “Dizzy”, causing -2 defense and -2 resistance (was Pounce)

    #246371

    gabthegab
    Member

    Hilidian like you know for me 40 CP is not a solution.
    With this spell and heal or regrowth you can play 2 time in one turn and win many power quickly.
    If you have strong hero with this spell you can explore all the map in few turn i hope Cbower make a video like this many players can understand the incredible power of this spell!
    This spell give incredible power and more It can be impossible to catch a strong warlord pack if he want run away! For me that is clear this spell must don’t work on heroes or leader and pack.
    One solution may be it works only on one unit not on heroes or leader it stay very very powerful spell for explore and make blitz.

    Gladis one construct heal ghoul in city and give 40% fire résistance to ghoule make in the city, i don’t know the name of the construct in english but you can easily find 🙂

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by  gabthegab.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by  gabthegab.
    #246378

    jab_st
    Member

    Wa04/ Wa05
    death march should be casted only once per turn per player. I am not sure about technically feasibility. Even increasing CP wont help, it is easy to find CP sites and 40 CP is very low.

    I am in for GC15/GC14

    I am in for AD17

    #246390

    Gilafron
    Member

    Two quick responses:

    That is, if I ghouled a nymph, the nymph would lose Charm? If possible, that makes more sense to me.

    What the sense to have nymph then if she will lost charm?

    Disregard. I was attempting to balance play vs common sense, but losing specific abilities when ghouled vs other abilities also seems arbitrary.

    Gilafron wrote:
    1. It is once a battle for everyone. AD04 and Th03 indicate heroes only. I suggest for all units.
    Yeah, Lightform proposed that too. What benefits would you give to Theo in exchange? Because that would significantly weaken Order of Healing and Evangelist

    My proposal is make healing once per battle for all units, 100% heal stack between turns. My argument is that if I can extend a battle for an advantage, then also give me that advantage between turns. To be clear, heroes would 100% heal stack between turns as well, since I’m suggesting the ability be modified, not who has the ability.

    For other items propsed:
    GC15 (dominate on items) – for

    AD10, AD10a, AD12, AD13 (spider evolution) – abstain (don’t know enough about exploit)
    AD17 (indy spider evolution) – abstain with lean toward against, seems the other spider evolution is enough, but again I don’t know the exploit enough

    Ne11 (heal undead) – against, several reasons: seems like a big nerf to start the game, seems like this ability would be mandatory to take at level up. Alternative: keep Heal Undead at level 1 for 3 points, but give necro a 6hp undead heal at night ability.
    Ne12 (necro random hero) – for. I never liked that necro’s were different. Alternative: Every leader starts with a same-class hero. An apprentice, if you will. This suggestion isn’t for game balancing, but a for-fun only suggestion.

    Wa04/05 (death march) – against, based upon the prior feedback that it is not enough. I don’t think limiting a spell to once per turn is feasible. Alternative: Death March added +8 MP and was not stackable. I “think” that is feasible. If the “not stackable” is not possible, then maybe adding +4MP on every casting.

    GC06 (healing) – abstain (spoken my opinion, see above for alternatives)
    GC16/17 (pounce) – abstain. The proposals seem ok, but I do like the discussions above about giving tigran beserkers and manticores a different ability. Those units having pounce seems like the needing the most nerfing.

    AD01a (beast horde) – for
    AD04 (healing) – abstain (spoken my opinion, see above for alternatives)

    Ne09a (energy drain) – for, as long as it is still non-stackable. Against if it is returning to stackable.

    Th03 (healing) – abstain (spoken my opinion, see above for alternatives)

    #246396

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Wa04/ Wa05
    death march should be casted only once per turn per player

    Yes, it would indeed be the best solution but I asked cbower and he said he thought it was not moddable. He suggested another approach: limiting it to a cast every X turns on a given unit (e.g. every 2 or 3 turns). That would mean each time you cast it on a stack, it receives a property like “Exhausted” for X turns and “Exhausted” units are not affected by Death March any more. That could help, even if you would still be able to cast it 3 times in a single turn to move 3 stacks at once.
    I add this as Wa07 with a value of 3 turns:

    So lacking a better solution, do you agree we should at least implement Wa04 jabst?

    I am in for GC15/GC14

    Did you mean GC15 and GC16?

    @jabst: and for the others, you have no opinion?

    My proposal is make healing once per battle for all units, 100% heal stack between turns. My argument is that if I can extend a battle for an advantage, then also give me that advantage between turns. To be clear, heroes would 100% heal stack between turns as well, since I’m suggesting the ability be modified, not who has the ability.

    Ok, I had not understood what you meant initially. I think that may be a bit too strong. Recently, I was thinking about another way to solve it: make Healing once per battle for everyone and give Evangelist and Theo’s support after Order of Healing (not Shaman) a second Healing called “Battle Healing”, that does not heal on the strategic map and starts with a 3 or 4 turns cooldown on the tactical map (and usable only once). That would basically make Healing usable twice per battle. What do you think about it?

    ==
    Confirmed for v1.18:
    GC15
    Dominate cannot be added to items built with the Arcane Item Forge

    Wa04/05 (death march) – against, based upon the prior feedback that it is not enough.

    Ok, I put you for Wa04 because if you think it’s not enough, it means you think we should at least take this step. 😛 But I think we’re going to implement something more constraining than Wa04 because everyone agrees it’s not enough.

    Death March added +8 MP and was not stackable. I “think” that is feasible. If the “not stackable” is not possible, then maybe adding +4MP on every casting.

    That may be too weak, I ask other opinions.

    GC16/17 (pounce) – abstain. The proposals seem ok, but I do like the discussions above about giving tigran beserkers and manticores a different ability. Those units having pounce seems like the needing the most nerfing.

    Ok so what about the latest proposal:
    Wa06
    Tigran Berserkers and Tigran Manticores have Jump: short range ranged attack similar to their melee attack, which allow retaliation, put them in Guard mode but with “Dizzy”, causing -2 defense and -2 resistance (was Pounce)

    #246425

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I added new options for Death March:

    Wa07 (was lacking in my previous post, sorry)
    Death March causes units getting extra movement to become Exhausted for 3 turns.
    Exhausted units do not benefit of the extra movement from Death March.
    Wa08
    Death March gives +8 MP (was +100%) and cannot be stacked
    Wa09
    Death March causes units getting extra movement to become Tired until the end of the (strategic) turn.
    Tired units get -50% movement in tactical combat

    #246427

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I write down the opinion of cbower and marcuspers from the BF’s chat to avoid losing them:

    cbower: put me down as for wa07&wa09 and against wa08 (it would just not be worth casting)

    marcuspers: Cbowers votes+Wa04. Well also Wa10, so in total wa04, 07,09,10

    #246433

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok, we’ve got some confirmed things for v1.18 following feedback by Jean_de_Metz and many others on the Battlefield:

    AD10
    Baby Spiders and Serpents evolve on Champion grade (was on Elite)

    + these changes are now priority change:
    AD10a
    Baby Spiders and Baby Serpents get the abilities of their evolved state (Spider Queens and Mature Serpent) on Elite, namely:
    Dread Spider Baby: Inflict Severely Poisoned
    Hunter Spider Baby: Inflict Enfeebling Fever
    Vampire Spider Baby: Inflict Exhausting Fatigue
    Baby Reed Serpent and Baby Shock Serpent get +4 MP

    Wa07
    Death March causes units getting extra movement to become Exhausted for 3 turns.
    Exhausted units do not benefit of the extra movement from Death March.
    ==

    3 more ideas for Death March:
    Wa11
    Death March’s Research cost is 280 RP and is tier III (was 140 RP and tier II)
    Wa12
    Death March can be casted only once per (strategic) turn
    Wa13
    Death March has no effect on heroes and leaders

    #246471

    jab_st
    Member

    do we even need the stack death march, cant even just remove it if it is so op.

    #246472

    jab_st
    Member

    like wa12

    #246479

    I am for wa12 also, death march is still pretty strong, but the opponent has at least a chance to figure out what the warlord is capable of next turn.
    I am also for AD17
    For Ne12 and against Ne13

    #246480

    I am also for Ro6a, and since i often play rogue and in every game, the lack of healing is the much of an issue and disadvantage, i would like to see it with healing on strategic map too.
    Pro Ro9-13

    #246482

    Hiliadan
    Member

    For Ne12 and against Ne13

    There is no Ne13. Do you mean for Ne11 and against Ne12?

    Upgraded to “Priority change”:
    Wa12
    Death March can be casted only once per (strategic) turn

    Ro06a
    Rogue heroes and leaders can choose Antiserum for 4 points at level 5. Antiserum can be used once per battle on a Poisonned unit (touch ability): it heals 10 HP and gets 100% Blight Protection for one round.
    Antiserum does not heal units on the strategic map

    #246483

    gabthegab
    Member

    I think players don’t have understand the power of death march at start on pack with the leader and hero who can heal or steal life. the upgrade Wa12 is the more poor of all! You make very good update for balance AD but now if you have the luck at start to have this spell the warlord is really over powerfull. Also a flying warlord can be impossible to catch!

    #246489

    Hiliadan
    Member

    New priority changes following feedback by Skuns:

    Wa05
    Researching Death March allows to cast Death March for 40 CP (was 20) and Individual Death March for 20 CP, which has a similar effect. Individual Death March can only target 1 stack of 1 T1 Irregular (and units can only be targetted once by Death March or Individual Death March).

    Wa09
    Death March causes units getting extra movement to become Tired until the end of the (strategic) turn.
    Tired units get -50% movement in tactical combat

    Wa10
    Death March causes units getting extra movement to get Cannot Regenerate and Cannot Heal (they cannot be targeted by Healing, Bestow Iron Heart, Guardian Flame, Nourishing Meal, and they cannot use Slip Away)

    Wa12
    Death March can be casted only once per (strategic) turn

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