balance weaker classes

[swupsMember]

evolving unit
i think we should give the weaker races an evolving unit

my opinion based on units and Race Governance
strong: Draconian, Human, High Elf, Tigran, Dwarf in any order
weak: Halfling, Orc
depending on class: Frostling, Goblin

lets start with orcs
War Halls are now 50g cheaper to produce
just plain stupid. why choose?? its a Second Tier building with no gain, if u consider
thats a 1st level race gov. , no point at all in early game!!!
i would change it into Siege Workshop are now half price 75g

they definitively need a Mind Control Immunity unit
so im thinking give Orc Spearman evolving into Javeliner
with Mind Control Immunity + throw javelin 15 dmg and -15 mp

also i would give Orc Black Knight at elite or champion Strong Will

theyre dead meat ag every class with decent shooters cuz of low res or just fairies
and very susceptible ag convert or any other mind abilities

[swupsMember]

PBEM balance mod

Zaskow
swups wrote:

evolving unit
i think we should give the weaker races an evolving unit

Evolve is game cancer in AoW3. Definitely no.

swups wrote:

weak: Halfling, Orc

Orcs are debatable weak race. They’re pretty reliable on autocombats in live MP, on manuals are far better I suppose.

swups wrote:

War Halls are now 50g cheaper to produce
just plain stupid. why choose?? its a Second Tier building with no gain, if u consider

Cheaper Warhalls means easier and quicker way to get Black Knights and Shock Troopers later.

swups wrote:

they definitively need a Mind Control Immunity unit

AFAIK no one race has MCI unit in race sets. Why orcs should?

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lets clear smth i only refer to medium or tournament maps
for any other map building order is irrelevant , coz no time -> small map
a lot of time -> big map
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irrelevant what evolving is from the moment that they are 4 evolving units
which u cant change or delete. ad + dracon + elv + hum knight

so to level up with the top races either u create new units, evolve is a form of it,
or u nerf existing ones. everything else has too much time consuption, like
try + error.

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orcs + half are by far the weakest (maybe goblins but the have mass adv)
coz of no existing df , phys for half , res for orcs

see stats

Balance based on hard data from the PBEM tournament (continued)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z28mJy6bHfYKgHgwu8RbwpuldHqaF-CRj6pp0xJ7Kx8/pubhtml?gid=2052154804&single=true

Orc 0% 0% 100% 40% 33%

https://www.the-battlefield.com/AOW3%20Players/index.php?page=ladderstats
Elves vs all : 48% (23 from 48)
Draconians vs all : 49% (29 from 59)
Goblins vs all : 39% (19 from 49)
Frostlings vs all : 44% (17 from 39)
Tigrans vs all : 68% (43 from 63)
Humans vs all : 53% (39 from 73)
Dwarves vs all : 49% (41 from 83)
Orcs vs all : 37% (15 from 41)
Halflings vs all : 55% (16 from 29)

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again building order is given in early stage combat vs enemy like rush in 20-30 turn

start with
Builders’ Hall 4 rd
then depending , either way
Laboratory 3 rd
Shrine 2 rd
Store House 2rd
then choose Temple 2/3rd Observatory 2/3rd Bath 2/3rd Siege Workshop 2/3rd

so best case scenario 16 rds for 5 buildings (no prod rush) and u didnt build
any troops!!! i didnt include vasall\2nd town as well as any defenders for ur
structures.

Cheaper Warhalls means easier and quicker way to get Black Knights and Shock Troopers later.

so what do i care for smth that happens in 25+ turns.
its patron governance the 1st !!!
look at http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Racial_Governance
what almost all other races get. day and night comparison.

_______________________________________

AFAIK no one race has MCI unit in race sets. Why orcs should?

really?
so Firstborn Human Knight Sphinx dont have mci??

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  swups.

[HiliadanMember]

swups wrote:

War Halls are now 50g cheaper to produce
just plain stupid. why choose?? its a Second Tier building with no gain, if u consider
thats a 1st level race gov. , no point at all in early game!!!
i would change it into Siege Workshop are now half price 75g

Siege Workshop is also a T2 building. 😛 I think War Hall boost does make sense, even at RG1 because it actually makes it affordable for early game: usually you wouldn’t build it around turn 10 but now you can because it costs almost the same as Barracks.
However, I would not start discussing Race Governance right now because we’re going to open a discussion about it soon and think more deeply about what each RG level should give.

swups wrote:

they definitively need a Mind Control Immunity unit

I strongly disagree here. Each race has strength and weakness and has some asymmetric balance compared to others. Orcs have weak resistance and thus more sensitive to mind control, but they have other strengths. You need to play on their strengths. Do we want Draconians to have a frost immune unit? I don’t think so. Races should not have a counter to all their weaknesses.

I also agree with Zaskow that Evolve is an issue in terms of balance and we should not introduce new Evolve units.

You’re right that Orcs are probably a weaker race right now (though they probably do better with some classes). But I don’t believe the issue will be solved by giving them MCI. Maybe by improving their RG but, again, let’s discuss that later when we discuss overall RG changes for all races.

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