Best 4x Other Than AoW3?

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Best 4x Other Than AoW3?

This topic contains 32 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  Philippos 5 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 33 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #246856

    Nerva
    Member

    hey guys,

    i have almost 500 hours on AoW3 and still fire it up from time to time. in fact, im starting a new 1v3 map against emperor AI.

    but i havent been able to find any 4x like AoW, ones with strong RPG and combat elements. Endless Legend was boring, and I hate the Civ series with a passion (for some reason). what other 4x are you guys playing and what would you recommend? anyone playing Stellaris (i dont like the idea of automated combat)?

    #246862

    Gloweye
    Member

    You could try Heroes of Might and Magic. III was a good one, IV had the best ideas of the entire franchise (but crap combat and crap execution in a few other areas), and after that it became total crap – graphic improvements but the gameplay lost it’s addictiveness.

    #246873

    EverydayJoe
    Member

    If you are up for old games, and haven’t tried these yet, check out Master of Magic, Master of Orion 2, Disciples 2 (85% of at GOG atm), or Eador:Genesis (perhaps with the great New Horizons mod). All are turn based in and out of combat, and have some sort of heros/leaders.

    And if you are up for something unusual, take a look at Thea:The Awakening. I’m not sure in what genre i’d put it, but it does come with strong RPG elements, an interesting card based combat mechanic, and an overall unique style.

    #246874

    Arlow
    Member

    i second disciples 2, a wonderful game, there is a third out there to be avoided

    #246875

    Draxynnic
    Member

    More recently, you could look at Warhammer: Total War (turn-based strategic, realtime combat) – I haven’t played it enough yet to form a firm opinion, but that’s more because I have other things occupying my time.

    Planar Conquest is another one that you might look at – it’s essentially a rebuild of Worlds of Magic, which wasn’t much of a success. I haven’t had the opportunity to try it at all yet (again, time) but you could look at it and see if you like it.

    You could try Heroes of Might and Magic. III was a good one, IV had the best ideas of the entire franchise (but crap combat and crap execution in a few other areas), and after that it became total crap – graphic improvements but the gameplay lost it’s addictiveness.

    I tend to think of this as an example of what happens when a third party takes over a franchise without really understanding how it works. The later Heroes really feel like they’ve taken what they thought was the glory age (Heroes 3) and just repeated the same formula while losing the spark that makes Heroes 3 regarded as the standard now.

    TBH, while a lot of people didn’t like Heroes IV, that was a mix of some elements that didn’t pay off while on the other hand the game suffered by being rushed out the door. If NWC had survived, I expect they would have ironed out the issues Heroes IV had and made something better than III or IV. Since then, though… well, ‘shovelware’ might be too harsh a term, but it’s in that direction.

    #246877

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I disagree somewhat. HoMM V (complete) is a brilliant game and better than H3 in so many respects, especially now that the massive and excellent HoMM 5.5 Mod is out. 6 and 7 are indeed very diasppointing, but 5 is REALLY good.
    I also disagree a tad about the Disciples series. Yes, Disciples 2 Gold is probably the game with the best campaigns ever, but the Disciples series as such isn’t much suited for single map games. D3 Reincarnation isn’t bad at all, and might be the better pick for someone not knowing the Disciples series at all, because combat is more like AoW.
    H IV, with Heroes on the battlefield may also be worth a look BECAUSE of that when you come from AoW.

    #246881

    Nerva
    Member

    thanks for the suggestions guys! Disciples and HoMM games look a bit too dated for my taste, i guess im not oldschool enough.

    i think i’ll be trying the Warhammer Total War game, been thinking about it. and Planar Conquest looks fun as well.

    #246885

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Disciples 2 Gold is on sale today at GoG for 1.49 $

    Everyone who doesn’t have that game should buy it. Best campaigns ever. You get 5 campaigns plus extra difficult bonus campaigns.

    #246894

    Draxynnic
    Member

    I disagree somewhat. HoMM V (complete) is a brilliant game and better than H3 in so many respects, especially now that the massive and excellent HoMM 5.5 Mod is out. 6 and 7 are indeed very diasppointing, but 5 is REALLY good.
    I also disagree a tad about the Disciples series. Yes, Disciples 2 Gold is probably the game with the best campaigns ever, but the Disciples series as such isn’t much suited for single map games. D3 Reincarnation isn’t bad at all, and might be the better pick for someone not knowing the Disciples series at all, because combat is more like AoW.
    H IV, with Heroes on the battlefield may also be worth a look BECAUSE of that when you come from AoW.

    5 is probably the best of the non-NWC instalments of the series, from what I’ve heard. I haven’t played it myself, but it seems to basically be 3, with a new set of units, dwarf faction instead of swamp dweller faction, non-hero spellcasting units a la HoMMIV, and instead of having two heroes per faction you have one hero with a faction-specific special ability.

    Personally, I looked over it, and felt that I preferred the way that 3 and 4 worked, including the lineups (dungeon should be a monster town! Not Warhammer dark elves with the serial numbers filed off!) – but that’s subjective enough that I can recognise the viewpoint that 5 might have been the best. 6 and 7, though, do seem to mark a certain degree of deterioration.

    #246911

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    We are in full agreement about Dungeon. 🙂 That said, H5 really upped the ante with hero skills. They also came up with alternative upgrades (you can pick one for each creature) and meaningful faction specials. Haven/Castle, for example can upgrade human units vertically, and so on. The 5.5 Mod is really adding.
    In any case, 5 definitely isn’t 3, although you can find a lot of 3, but also 4 (skills are more 4 than 3, for example).

    #246971

    I’m going to mention warlock 2. Not amazing but a solid game and enjoyable enough. Has a few interface issues though and moving between worlds can be tine consuming and boring due to one unit per tile.

    Not totally related but chaos reborn is quite fun.

    #246985

    alexej
    Member

    Planar Conquest is not bad at all, but has some flaws and bugs which makes him inferior to AOW3. Warlock 2 with all dlcs and renaissance mod is quite good, but not as good as modded AOW3 and multiplayer is strange to me there. Sorcerer King is not bad if you plan to play single and its (bit overpriced) sequel Sorcerer King Rivals (seems to be same game with more content) will be even better I hope. Should be unlocked in September and if you buy it now, you will get for free and can play Sorcerer King instantly.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by  alexej.
    #246988

    Lannister
    Member

    Total War: Warhammer, not technically a 4x(real time battles) has spectacular visual battles(Giants, Trolls ranks of halberdiers and amazing looking spells), can’t wait for them to release the Elf factions, i hear in time all 3(wood, dark, high elfs)will be released.

    #246996

    Draxynnic
    Member

    I wouldn’t exclude Total War from 4X status due to having real-time combat, particularly since some classic 4Xs autoresolve combats: the strategic-level gameplay is turn-based 4X gameplay. Furthermore, I don’t think there’s anything about the 4X genre that actually requires even the strategic level to be turn-based: it’s just that 4X games often involve a level of empire management complexity that is impractical in real time.

    If it was to fall short on the definition, I’d say it was because of the general lack of an “explore” phase: you usually know where everything is (or at least everything within a practical striking distance) and jump straight into the other phases.

    I believe CA has said they ultimately plan to have all the major factions from Warhammer as playable (what they define as ‘major’, I guess we’ll see), which will include a couple of big expansions. I’m hanging out for New World + Ulthuan expansion myself (you could have Dark Elves, High Elves, Skaven and Lizardmen as the major factions, Chaos threatening to invade from the north as usual, and various minor factions as escaped slaves (the lore had some greenskins in Naggaroth at least), colonies, the Vampire Coast, and so on.

    #246998

    Griffith
    Member

    Total War Warhammer is a great game in many respects, but due to it not having random map generator, it gets old really fast. Even if it had larger map or several new maps, its replayability would still be very limited, for me at least.

    #246999

    omgsuperman
    Member

    For those looking for something a bit different, I highly recommend Dominions 4

    #247011

    NINJEW
    Member

    For those looking for something a bit different, I highly recommend Dominions 4

    i’ve seen enough of dominions to say that getting into the multiplayer would be a bit much for me, it looks like being competitive requires learning a dwarf-fortress level of complexity and information

    conquest of elysium 4, on the other hand, looks like a pretty fun game for single player than i plan on trying out

    #247021

    LordCameron
    Member

    Dominions is actually a lot simpler than it looks and I highly recommend it. The best way to view it is a fantasy simulator rather than a 4X however. Don’t try to learn every item, spell and unit, there are literally thousands, instead be surprised each time you see them and choose them based on what feels right or looks coolest.

    Also don’t play they AI. It’s better to play yourself than the AI. (Which I quite enjoy personally)

    #247041

    LordCameron
    Member

    I disagree somewhat. HoMM V (complete) is a brilliant game and better than H3 in so many respects, especially now that the massive and excellent HoMM 5.5 Mod is out.

    I got Homm V when it came out, and thought it was mediocre at best, and I quickly stopped playing. Earlier this year I acquired the complete version in a bundle as I was trying to rebuild my Heroes collection, but I didn’t play it.

    But I played it today because of what you said, and I’ve been blown away by how good the complete version is, especially after my initial experience of the game in 2005/06 whenever it was.

    Highly recommend now.

    #247050

    Thariorn
    Member

    But I played it today because of what you said, and I’ve been blown away by how good the complete version is, especially after my initial experience of the game in 2005/06 whenever it was.

    Highly recommend now.

    You should definetly check out the 5.5 Mod then

    #247061

    LordCameron
    Member

    You should definetly check out the 5.5 Mod then

    The moment I get my footing with the game I plan to! I’ve been reading up on it and after playing the stronghold with obvious weaker units I look forward to a bit of rebalancing.

    #247064

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Well, yes, Stronghold units aresomewhat weaker “vanilla”, but that’s what Blood Rage is for.

    #247076

    LordCameron
    Member

    I meant the useless alternate upgrades, like Centaur Mauraders and Venom Wyverns.

    #247078

    stellarrat
    Member

    I too will highly recommend Dominions IV. It’s very good. However, graphics are not its strong point, so you’re looking for something fancy then you might not like it. On the other hand, the graphics are sufficient to show you what’s happening AND the game play is very deep. There is less of tactical element, but a lot more grand strategy in Dominions. You don’t really command during a battle, but the setup before hand is critical. Battles can involve literally hundreds or even thousands of individual units. The AI is pretty capable and it’s really fun multi-player. Depending on the map size it can take a very long time to finish a game specially in multiplayer.

    #247394

    Nyanko
    Member

    The latest interesting one I have played is Thea:The Awakening. It’s a survival 4X in which the combat system is handled with cards. And each playthrough is based on a deity to be chosen among 8 so it has a lot of replayability.

    #247404

    Cadfan
    Member

    I’d second Thea the Awakening.

    I think 4x games are at their best when they focus on doing one thing well, instead of trying to do everything at once. AoW3 does this. I think Thea does too.

    #247411

    Sloul
    Member

    Other than previous AoW installments, there is nothing shiny in its category.
    It’s better that I keep my opinion of HoMM and Disciples for myself.

    Planar Conquest, I think, tends to get boring quite quickly.
    MoM is MoM, but it’s old, and I think AoW 3 atm has much more to offer.

    If something comes to mind, ill be sure to pop here.

    #247520

    ElderDays
    Member

    My favorite fantasy 4x game without a doubt is the Fall From Heaven mod for Civ IV.

    #247522

    starvation
    Member

    My favorite fantasy 4x game without a doubt is the Fall From Heaven mod for Civ IV.

    Absolutely! I don’t really like civilizations games either like the OP, mostly ‘cos there is very small variation between the various civilizations, but i’m having the just one more turn addiction playing the excellent FFH2 campaign at the moment.
    Every civ plays wildly different from the other and is portrayed very well, the campaign narrative is interesting if a bit odd (almost everyone is insane, an asshole or both), religions make possible to recruit more units (kinda like the aow3 hero class), the research tree is different from normal Civ IV, you won’t be able to discover everything in a reasonable time so you have to decide where to focus, magic plays a huge role, the cons are high learning curve (but MUCH less than Dominions) and nowhere near the amazing AoW3 combat.
    Remember to install the extramodmod on top of FFH2, it fixs many AI problems and has alot of unit balance tuning.

    About TW:Warhammer…well i’m a huge TW fan (old titles have lots of incredible mods!) but i’ll pass for now, we are talking about a planned trilogy with probably like 30 paid dlcs and castrated mod support…no thanks i’ll wait for some kind of gold edition in 5-6 years from now.

    #247548

    About TW:Warhammer…well i’m a huge TW fan (old titles have lots of incredible mods!) but i’ll pass for now, we are talking about a planned trilogy with probably like 30 paid dlcs and castrated mod support…no thanks i’ll wait for some kind of gold edition in 5-6 years from now.

    I have the current edition with no dlc and it occupied 60 odd hours, so happy with that. The novelty wears off though once you realise siege battles are…not that great. And you need mods, mostly battle mods.

    Still, worth it in current state. I *will* be revisiting it in a couple of years time to get the entire collection for like $20 lol.

    edit: as a rule, I’m finding games with 1 or 2 years support post release tend to be the most enjoyable. For example, I’m replaying Pillars of Eternity, and it is much more fun than I remember it. I mean, it was fun at release, but now it is really good.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 33 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.