Better than the rest

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Better than the rest

This topic contains 42 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by  Flyingpenut 8 years ago.

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  • #88782

    Flyingpenut
    Member

    Why do you feel AOW3 is better than the other related games out there? HOMM 6, Disciples 3, and Civ 5 have all come out in the last few years and AOW is the only one that is actually worth playing. Tell us why in your opinion?

    #88786

    Sathra
    Member

    I like tactical combat and having tons of things to keep in mind (wall of unit abilities). Also AoW2 and SM were incredibly fun.
    Civ bored me pretty quickly, and the HoMM games are increasingly bland and flavourless. The only ones I really liked were the first and third.

    Never played Disciples, but heard terrible things about it. Also the trailers don’t strike me as interesting compared to the Theocrat vs undead dragon one for AoW3.

    #88815

    Ericridge
    Member

    Hmm….. hard to say but I think I prefer Civ 5 BNW: Modded over AOW3 in it’s current state.

    #88880

    Erwin
    Member

    To me they feel like different games. Civ V for example has a totally different playstyle than AoW III and I play both to satisfy my needs for both fantasies. The same counts for some of the other games out there, most of them are different enough to verify existence next to each other.

    It’s a good time for being a TBS fanatic 😉

    #88882

    melkathi
    Member

    I found Civ 5 frustratingly boring. Click, click, click (End Turn, End Turn, End Turn…)
    Of course the whole civ series is at a disadvantage with me, since I am one of “those” – a die hard Alpha Centauri fan. Since then every game in that series has always come with the disappointment of “AC did it so much better”.
    So I never tried the expansions for Civ5 that people say are great. Why pay money for expansions of a gmae I did no like.

    Age of Wonders 3 comes with an advantage: I loved all three previous games and it has been a long time since the series had a new game. So nostalgia and a general positive attitude towards the series has me positively predisposed.
    But to be honest, while I prefer this over Civ5, I do find it to be the weakest AoW gameplay wise.

    #88901

    It passes the time. I wouldn’t say its any better than other titles. There just isn’t anything out right now that I haven’t beaten. Isn’t that why we all play games? I mean, it is once in a decade something ever comes out that I’d really say is a “great game.”

    AOW3 could be great if it had a challenging AI that launched an offensive, more strategic depth, and better empire building.

    It’s fun, but all the way through both campaigns on hard, after the first 15 turns or so, I wasn’t too worried about losing, just how many hours it would take to burn through the AIs T4 stacks around its capital.

    #88970

    Weltenreiter
    Member

    I kind of stopped the “Dedication to <game>” thing when BEARS made me lose interest in WoW, and in fact some of the Gaming ADS I have in boardgames (halp, can’t stop buying games. >.<) rubbed off on my computer gaming in the meantime.

    So the “onetru game that is better than all others” isn’t really my thing.
    Instead I’ll list why I dropped or never picked up some games.

    HoMM 6 – Had good fun with it for a while, really liked the campaign characters. Ultimately a bug ridden pest that not enough was being done about though. The hilariously broken (potentially campaign-permanent) Week buffs/debuffs eventually made me rage-quit, didn’t want to savescum all mapstarts and delay all mapfinishes to week of nothing to maintain a pure game.

    Disciples 3 – Never tried. Suspected that going from sorta Final Fantasy style combat in 2 to tactical movement combat would have made me rage. Mind you, I like tactical combats, but I like the heart and souls of games not being messed with *more*.

    Civ 5 – What. Not even remotely the same genre, does not contest each other. I do need to give that thar Brave New World Expansion a try though, yeah.

    I’ll add to your list:

    Eador – Excellent game, I particularly like their take on the “planeswalker” concept, the detailed damage/exhaustion/morale mechanics in combat (but can live without them), and the crazy John Madden diagram of a building tree.
    The campaign became a bit of a slogfest though, slow building unlock advancement (Didn’t help that I actually restarted it once I understood the building tree to properly beeline unlocks). When I realized it would be at least half a dozen (big) shards more till I could try a proper spellcaster hero, I kinda put the game on hold. Also more practical problem: It plain didn’t work for me for longest of time. haven’t checked if that patch yesterday-ish fixed that.

    #89015

    Flyingpenut
    Member

    I have not played Eador yet but might give it a try. Another game left off would also be Fallen Enchantress I guess.

    The biggest advantage AOW has for me would be the most strategic combat over of all the rest.

    #89018

    Civ’s decision making always seemed really spread out to me – lots of time sitting around, going through motions compared to time where you actually have to make a meaningful choice (albeit part of this was probably that I had a bad computer that took quite awhile to go between turns).

    #89021

    SirSesshaku
    Member

    I found it more bland than AoW 1 in some aspects, but is fun, and I clearly see the potential.
    Just like Civ5, I think this game will improve and change drastically with each patch/dlc/expansion.

    I expect a lot new races, at least 2-3 new classes, new buildings, units, spells, game mechanics, etc. But of course, that will require time, patience and time, to do it, to do it, to do it RIIGHT.

    #89023

    AnemoneMeer
    Member

    Good combat, fast enough to play a full game in a reasonable amount of time, very little bloat.

    The game gets alot of mileage out of very little difficulty to learn, which makes it easy to pick up, while at the same time, it’s deep enough to allow all the usual strategy game counterplay and tactics. So it’s great for multiplayer, and doesn’t tend to drag at any stage of the game.

    #89030

    I found Civ 5 frustratingly boring. Click, click, click (End Turn, End Turn, End Turn…)<br>
    Of course the whole civ series is at a disadvantage with me, since I am one of “those” – a die hard Alpha Centauri fan. Since then every game in that series has always come with the disappointment of “AC did it so much better”.<br>

    Agree with this so much. For my part, I think why I liked SMAC and like AoW3 better than Civ 5 is the design style. Civ 5 feels very limited and linear to me, where SMAC with random tech and AoW3 have a more open-ended and sandbox feel to them. I compare it to RPG’s like Dragon Age v Skyrim (I prefer Skyrim, for example). I can also only find a challenge in Civ 5 on Deity, Domination Victory only- and that game has pretty dull conquest and combat mechanics obviously. So then it comes down to what game has good combat and multiplayer (since AI never keeps me entertained for long). AoW 3 wins hands down.

    #89031

    Rabiator
    Member
      Civ5 vs AoW3

    The tech tree in Civ is always the same and you have to research “basic stuff” before you get the “good stuff” … that is an advantage over AoW3, because some techs you NEED early can only come up (too) late in the game. Obviously the changing research of AoW is an advantage, because it keeps the game fresh due to not always having the same start.

    Combat in AoW3 is far better than in Civ5, because it is stupid that archers have a longer range compared to tanks AND that you can actually still hurt a tank with puny arrows. [There would be an easy solution to “fix Civ”, but it would require splitting up the hexes into far smaller ones so you can allow for bigger numbers than 2 for the range of units … but they didnt do it.]

    AoW has MAGIC!

    AoW city building is simpler to focus more on combat. Civ5 is a game designed for a longer “development” and thus it is more complex with a lot of “filler buildings”.

    Civ has religions and the world council with politics and worldwide quests.

    AoW AI is stupid when it comes to declaring war, trespassing and making peace again. You can have war-peace-war-peace-war in a few turns … which is terribly illogical.

    The bottom line is that both games have their strong points and weak points AND both could be improved by a lot.

    #89036

    Alockbee
    Member

    Fallen Enchantress “Legendary Heroes” is a very solid game. It’s like Masters of Magic in many ways. Tactical combat is decent, but AOW3 has it beat. I own all the add-on’s (& there are a decent amount of them) Recently I only play Fallen LH & AOE3. I wanted to love Disciples 3 (I own both games) from Steam, but it simply wasn’t as good as Disciples 2. Although the artwork is wonderful IMHO, it doesn’t cut it.

    HoMM6 is fair @ best. I own the original, but refuse to buy the add-on. Too bad because the HoMM series is my all-time favorite (i.e. I, II & III) & I liked HoMM V after the “Tribes of East” came out.

    #89037

    Mips
    Member

    AoW, Civ and the Total War series are my favourite TBS games (Rome2 was a huge disappointment though 🙁 ). they re all good in their own way. but they also have their own flaws each. i wish the devs would learn a bit more from other, look into what the others do better. for example, i think Civ has the best diplomacy and empire/city management but the worst combat.

    #89056

    vota dc
    Member

    Mmmm Total War isn’t 100% TBS (and isn’t a RTS too), it reminds me more Birthright the Gorgon’s Alliance that was mixed too (Total War better real time battle, Birthright a better strategic part depth as Romance of the three kingdoms games).

    Romance of the three kingdoms is TBS since both strategic and tactic is with turns but I haven’t played the new games.

    Jagged Alliance 2 with the mod 1.13….eh I still play with that. The mod is still keeping that game alive, they even introduced new features like need to eat and spy mode.

    Civilization 5 was very slow when just out. It is still a bit slow despite all patches. The game is ok but I hate the combat system because the result are bugged and very often I lose when they say it will be an easy victory, with AOW3 sometimes I have the opposite problem, expecially with shadow stalkers, and I win withouth any loss autobattles labeled as “possible defeat”….but autobattle is just an option in Aow3 when in Civ 5 you must do it!

    From what I heard Homm6 is really dumbed down. Less resources and common creature pool. You don’t have to worry about logistic much. Also no city screen….homm series used to be a lot better than AOW in city building.

    Battle for Wesnoth is free and funny, not same level of AOW3, still interesting gameplay.

    So AOW 3 doesn’t have much rival among new games for me.

    #89100

    MartyD81
    Member

    Also no city screen….homm series used to be a lot better than AOW in city building.

    Visually, maybe. Strategically, not by a long shot. The HOMM games have never been about city building or perhaps empire development, ya know…

    #89254

    Epaminondas
    Member

    For the record: In spite of my many gripes about the tactical combat, I have found AoW 3 more enjoyable than any TBS I’ve played thus far. At this point I am hitting close to 200-hours, and I haven’t played as much the last few days only because I’ve been busy in real-life. With the exception of WoW, I don’t ever recall investing this much time in any kind of PC game in such a short time-frame.

    In terms of comparing AoW to its TBS competition, I think what distinguishes AoW is its well-roundedness, that it has no glaring flaws or areas where it is really sub-par or below the “norm” relative to its competition. For instance, Civ 5 might offer better “empire building/management” aspect, but few other TBS do; for another, Eador might have better tactical combat, but that’s about the only TBS I can think of that does; and basically any other major feature of TBS games you can think of, AoW 3 does better than most.

    In short, it is a “well-made” game in a comprehensive sense.

    Or to use a different metaphor, it’s neither the prettiest girl nor the most brilliant girl in the neighborhood; but it is a damn attractive girl and quite bright, too.

    I know that this will sound surprising given my many rather vociferous complaints, but the reason I have been so critical is because I hold it to such a higher standard given how masterful the prior games in the series have been. So I am almost comparing it to the “utopian” ideal of what a fantasy TBS game ought to be, rather than existing fantasy TBS games such as Fallen Enchantress, Warlock II, Eador, HoMM VI, Disciples III, etc. – all games that would be ashamed to stand in the same contest with AoW 3.

    Of course, the problem with “utopian” hopes is that no human inventions can fulfill it. Moreover, all utopian hopes are necessarily subjective! 😉

    #89277

    jpinard
    Member

    It’s gorgeous and lays a fantastic groundwork for becoming the best 4x fantasy game ever.

    #89280

    MartyD81
    Member

    @epaminondas

    Is this the first time I have seen you appreciate AoW III as such? BTW, with regard to your constantly comparing the game to a non-existent “utopian” ideal TBS fantasy game, is it not time you came back to Earth already? Such a game will most likely never exist, you are only troubling your soul and mind here.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by  President.
    #89345

    11balanced11
    Member

    1.Realism ) The most ‘realistic’ combat and empire building mechanics.

    2. Diversity: tons of units, spells and features coming from races, classes and specializations.

    3. Atmosphere and style ))

    #89392

    Epaminondas
    Member

    @epaminondas

    Is this the first time I have seen you appreciate AoW III as such? BTW, with regard to your constantly comparing the game to a non-existent “utopian” ideal TBS fantasy game, is it not time you came back to Earth already? Such a game will most likely never exist, you are only troubling your soul and mind here.

    No, not the first time. But perhaps the first time where the entire post was positive! 😉

    #89405

    Shiara384
    Member

    @epaminondas: You just made my brain implode. ..Thanks, I actually needed that.

    @Op: For me, its hard to say. I’ve always been fond of Age of Wonders, my opinions are incredibly biased towards AoW because its what brought me into the fantasy genre. So unfortunately, I will not actually list my opinions because, in all honesty. I would probably only be able to speak in terms of bias towards the age of wonders series in general, not just AoW 3. Holds a special place in my heart it does. One of the reasons I react so strongly to some comments about stuff. Yeah I know, it should have been final fantasy, but Final Fantasy never felt “Fantasy” enough to me, and Dungeons and Dragons doesn’t entirely appeal to me, too many rules, my imagination is best left unshackled.

    I’ll voice my opinion about AoW 3 tho.

    I love the varying classes and their themes. The Warlord is one of my favorites, its not very often you find a Genghis Khan themed class in fantasy, sure, there are barbarians, berserkers, ect, but not a proper “Mongolian Khanate” theme. I’ve always been fascinated by Mongolia, so there is that.

    The Dreadnaught is one of my honest favorites. Steampunk isn’t that uncommon, but when meshed into with elements of other fantasy, and STILL associating with magic? Now thats nice. Its Magitek without being final fantasy, which makes me smile. (I am not bashing final fantasy, just pointing that out. Its just overdone, FF is.)

    The rest of the game is utterly beautiful too. That’s the thing about the age of wonder series. Athla/The Blessed Continent, has always been so incredibly beautiful. Even AoW 2, Shadowmagic, had this feel. Age of Wonders, the whole series, from begining to now. Feels like you are inside of a fairy tale, a story book, a tale of heroes, a tale of legends. This is why I love the Age of Wonders series, and AoW 3. Age of Wonders 3 has continued that storybook feel, the user interface especially helps.

    #89407

    And I find myself agreeing with you twice in one morning…

    I feel strange. What can we argue about, to reset the balance?

    #89469

    Flyingpenut
    Member

    @epaminondas

    This is exactly the way I feel. I think this game is the only one in the genre that has potential to be a great game. Shadow Magic is the single best game I have ever played but unfortunately I have played it so much that it has finaly become boring after all these years. If the devs were to bring back some of the thought provoking descision choices from previouse installments while keeping the new and original innovations they have come up with this game could be near perfect as well. Many games are released watered down like this one so I am hoping after patching and expansions we will all have the near perfect experience that we know this game can be.

    #89768

    MartyD81
    Member

    This is exactly the way I feel. I think this game is the only one in the genre that has potential to be a great game. Shadow Magic is the single best game I have ever played but unfortunately I have played it so much that it has finaly become boring after all these years. If the devs were to bring back some of the thought provoking descision choices from previouse installments while keeping the new and original innovations they have come up with this game could be near perfect as well. Many games are released watered down like this one so I am hoping after patching and expansions we will all have the near perfect experience that we know this game can be.

    And here lies your problem. You have played the s*** out of AoW:SM and you have apparently even caught yourself in a “grind-it-for-joy” loop. Still, you demand improvements and innovations in the spirit of a fictitious AoW:SM v2.00.
    Actually, I feel for you in this regard because I have also played the c*** out of AoW:SM. I have possibly managed to break it down to molecules by modding it through and through with Dwiggs 1.4, BNW2.0, community patches including the newest MPE 2.0, I have tried out the AOW1 mod, I have fooled around with the editor, units stats, played plenty of custom scenarios the community has released, I have got countless of RMG sessions under my belt.
    You know what? One day I thought to myself: it is time to move on. That was when AoWIII was nearing its release date… All I can say in conclusion is thanks god for a new AoW game.

    #89783

    Flyingpenut
    Member

    I too want a new experience from Shadow Magic. However when you go from a steak dinner to a McDonald’s hamburger it is kind of a tough pill to swallow. I know that was over dramatizing it but the idea is the same. I do enjoy AOW 3 but I feel as if it is just lacking depth. Therefore my many suggestion posts on how the devs can keep the new foundation they have but beef up the strategy depth a bit. Again I am not complaining I am just offering insight on how I feel the game can be better.

    However even with my wish list for this game it is far and away better than any of the other strategy game sequels out lately.

    #89846

    MartyD81
    Member

    @flyingpenut

    Maybe you will bring yourself over these self-troubling sentiments as time passes. I wish you could enjoy the game the way I and many others can.
    You keep on talking that AoWIII is something of a watered-down rehash of AoW:SM in your view. But your posts seem to be more of your personal preferences than valid points about the game’s supposed shallow strategic depth. Again, that the game does some things differently does not mean it has been dumbed down for casuals. Deal with it, OK?
    Being able to exploit a game to the bone does not indicate anything about a game’s depth, you know. And AoW:SM was full of all kinds of exploits.

    #89891

    Shiara384
    Member

    Exploits are bad mmkay.

    #89919

    Flyingpenut
    Member

    Marty and Shairao it sounds like neither of you are strategy gamers. You want an easy game to pick up and one that the novice can compete with the master. That is fine but more more for FPS or the action genre. Here in the strategy genre we don’t complain about exploits but we find strategies to counter them. That’s what you can’t seem to figure out. I am confident that the true following for AOW would preffer an experience where strategy is a greater factor.

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