Boneyard behavior

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Boneyard behavior

This topic contains 22 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  iceboy 6 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
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  • #214235

    Wallthing
    Member

    I’ve noticed that boneyards often have two or more stacks defending them & roaming stacks from boneyards also tend to stick together and act as armies. It kinda made me curious as to whether this is intended behavior – it ends up getting pretty nasty if I can’t put together a suitable army and take it out early. In one game I found the area around a boneyard to be littered with dead heroes’ gear – enemy AI obviously has trouble with them too.

    I’ve seen similar behavior (multiple defender stacks) from bandit hideouts, but of course that’s more of an annoyance than a threat.

    Perhaps there’s some mixing between how the indy AI treats roamer stacks and how it handles independent settlements’ roaming stacks? I’m not really complaining – it can be dealt with – it simply seems odd.

    #214241

    kwibus
    Member

    I was always pro-boneyard stacks, but since the AI can’t deal with them I’ve started to dislike them.
    AI gets wrecked by those Titan armies.

    #214267

    Ericridge
    Member

    I’ve lost armies to titans, such is the risks of exploring with a weak stack. But I didn’t run to the forums to complain about it.

    What I did was resurrect the hero and give him five new units to command and get revenge with.

    #214276

    enemy AI obviously has trouble with them too.

    If the AI has troubles with it, we should change AI not nerf boneyards.Just in case anyone plans on suggesting this! There have been so many topics on boneyards. Just as bandit camps are the lowest in the spawn site hacking order boneyards are topmost. The problem with titan stacks is mainly a “problem” in longer games. When playing short games (no longer than turn 60) you usually never get full titan stacks.

    boneyards often have two or more stacks defending them

    (multiple defender stacks) from bandit hideouts

    as far as I have noticed, this only occurs when a new stack spawns. It will usually stay at the camp for one turn. Or they just canot mover on the very turn they appeard.

    #214328

    Wallthing
    Member

    I’ve lost armies to titans, such is the risks of exploring with a weak stack. But I didn’t run to the forums to complain about it.

    What I did was resurrect the hero and give him five new units to command and get revenge with.

    Did you read my post and misunderstand it or do you talk down to people through ignorance alone?

    Look, folks, I’m not saying ‘nerf boneyards’ – I’m wondering if the AI is acting properly. I don’t give a flying monkey about 6-titan stacks or whatever misinterpretation you’re making of my statements. I am saying that it is strange to find the AI marching two or three stacks of roamers around together as if they’re going to besiege a city, or having two stacks stand next to the spawn point as if they’re defending a city, both instead of, well, roaming. I don’t or haven’t yet seen the same behavior from monster spawn sites.

    #214334

    it is strange to find the AI marching two or three stacks of roamers around together

    actually I have not noticed this behavior so far. But the way you describe it it seems pretty much like it should be that way.
    I would not be surprised if undead roamers had been designed to mass up as undead threat to replace the missing undead race/class when the game came out.

    If the AI has troubles with it, we should change AI not nerf boneyards.Just in case anyone plans on suggesting this!

    Just set things rigth: this was not meant to talk you down! Just wanted to prevent this thread from going to the wrong direction. There had been complaints about boneyrd strength several times.

    #214348

    Wallthing
    Member

    I was lucky enough in one game to have a wisp over a lake next to some blighted land with a boneyard at the end of an npc AI’s empire. Hmm. Perhaps the stacks moving together was an anomaly, aggravated by the NPC ai frequently sending units to that area? So the undead stacks would tend to stay close enough to each other to be able to both attack at the same time & have a higher chance of appearing to move together even when there wasn’t an enemy army they could reach.

    Just set things rigth: this was not meant to talk you down! Just wanted to prevent this thread from going to the wrong direction. There had been complaints about boneyrd strength several times.

    No, I didn’t take it as if you were. That particular comment was for Ericridge. Perhaps I should’ve organized my post differently.

    #214354

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    Well, now that independents will no longer see concealed units, I am hoping my scouts won’t get killed by them.

    Undead armies can get nasty – Titans, Bone Dragons, Bone collectors… I never let them fester long enough, but do they start manufacturing Reapers too eventually?

    Btw, can’t we have other high-level monster spawners? They could even spawn racial units, or class units…
    I’d like to see something like say, “Warlord Camp” that starts out by sending scouts and berserkers out, and eventually makes small bandit armies made of phalanxes and horse archers (Manticores would be too much).
    Or heck, make a site with “Warlock laboratory” which churns out demented apprentices and various summoned monsters to ravage the countryside.
    Or a Dragon Lair that spawns wyverns and various draconian units as its minions, sending them out to collect treasure while the site is guarded by dragons.

    I know – there are already various cities and neutral settlements, the thing is – unless you trespass on them or if they spawn with the “always evil and never talks” setting they will be neutral. Even if they are hostile, their troops will stay within their domains.

    #214358

    Wallthing
    Member

    Undead armies can get nasty – Titans, Bone Dragons, Bone collectors… I never let them fester long enough, but do they start manufacturing Reapers too eventually?

    I’ve never seen a wandering Dread Reaper except as part of the NPC necromancer cosmic event. It would be out of character, I think, for one to come from a boneyard, but maybe the circles produce them late in the game?

    Edit: I support the idea of adding a few more spawn point – my preference for the first would be something like a mad inventor’s workshop; a machine spawner. So rare to run across machines in use. Perhaps it could even be a combination spawner + treasure site, giving production, gold, and knowledge, and offering a building with a slightly eccentric bonus for machines – like lower defense in exchange for more damage.

    #214494

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    Oh yeah, just posted that myself on another thread. 🙂 Maybe a mad dwarven inventor lab – it’d produce flame tanks, golems, accompanied by racial dwarf tier 1-2 units (not priests though).
    I dunno about treasuse sites being spawners as well. There aren’t any like those so far. Maybe we could have two different such structures, the latter would be guarded “inside” by machine and dwarf (or goblin?) units.

    #214642

    iceboy
    Member

    I just wish they would give us the option to control the spam from all sites and seals…

    #214705

    Lykus
    Member

    I just wish they would give us the option to control the spam from all sites and seals…

    You can adjust the frequency of spams in the settings

    #214708

    Fenraellis
    Member

    I just wish they would give us the option to control the spam from all sites and seals…

    You can adjust the frequency of spams in the settings

    Actually, you can adjust the number of spawning sites. Which, while similar, isn’t quite the same as the frequency, which remains within the same regular deviation of spawn timing, depending on the particular type of spawning site.

    #214709

    Ericridge
    Member

    I’ve lost armies to titans, such is the risks of exploring with a weak stack. But I didn’t run to the forums to complain about it.

    What I did was resurrect the hero and give him five new units to command and get revenge with.

    Did you read my post and misunderstand it or do you talk down to people through ignorance alone?

    Look, folks, I’m not saying ‘nerf boneyards’ – I’m wondering if the AI is acting properly. I don’t give a flying monkey about 6-titan stacks or whatever misinterpretation you’re making of my statements. I am saying that it is strange to find the AI marching two or three stacks of roamers around together as if they’re going to besiege a city, or having two stacks stand next to the spawn point as if they’re defending a city, both instead of, well, roaming. I don’t or haven’t yet seen the same behavior from monster spawn sites.

    Roamers do march together. To see it happen more often, switch independent’s strength to “Very Strong” and you will see insane independents. I played with it once, and i plan to do so again somewhat soon after i finish my current XL map. In my one time foray into “Very Strong” I saw a brigand hideout that I neglected to smash cuz it well protected by mountains/river/wetlands and so i went eh screw it and ignored it. Later into the game I came back to see it defended by six stacks of combined brigands, monsters and elementals. All other independent hideouts might converge to the closest independent hideout to your empire to give you a hard time smashing it. Too bad for them I was playing dreadnought at the time..

    And plus archon roamers sticking together is one way to increase their overall combat strength. It’s simply smart tactics. And I do see AIs clear out the roamer’s nests. If its too faraway from their cities, they won’t give a flying care about it. If it actively threatens then they will move out to clear it eventually if they’re not under pressure or busy in a war.

    There’s no point in clearing out a huge nest of undeads faraway from you if you cannot capitalize upon freshly freed up land which will only increase the strength of enemies nearer to the land than you are.

    You might wanna wait til around turn 120+ cuz that’s about when AIs will wake up again start expanding past the limit.

    #214720

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    Nice! I noticed that too, I ran afoul of 2 stacks of undead (a total of 3 titans) once this way. Luckily I had a good Dreadnougt hero and an Archangel with me.

    Underground nests are the worst – you cannot even see them and their spawn sometimes just emerge and start conquering your thought-to-be-safe cities. I now make it a point to go down every cavern and check if there are any sites nearby.

    #214726

    Ericridge
    Member

    Nice! I noticed that too, I ran afoul of 2 stacks of undead (a total of 3 titans) once this way. Luckily I had a good Dreadnougt hero and an Archangel with me.

    Underground nests are the worst – you cannot even see them and their spawn sometimes just emerge and start conquering your thought-to-be-safe cities. I now make it a point to go down every cavern and check if there are any sites nearby.

    That’s part of the thrill of exploring underground for me. 🙂 Its simply smart to bring minimum of three stacks when venturing into unexplored sections of map. And several scouts too. You don’t want to be dogpiled with 18+ Stacks if there is alot of boneyards together XD

    #214802

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    Yikes that sounds scary. I never saw spawning sites grouped so close to each other, though.

    What do Bandit Camps produce eventually, btw? Assassins? I never leave them around for late-game and they tend to be closer to settlements than Monster Lairs or the Undead Graveyards, so they get found earlier even by the AI.

    There should be some Tigran spawner site too, that spawns desert raiders – racial Tigran units mixed with Scoundrels, Mounted Archers, etc.

    #214833

    Ericridge
    Member

    Yikes that sounds scary. I never saw spawning sites grouped so close to each other, though.

    What do Bandit Camps produce eventually, btw? Assassins? I never leave them around for late-game and they tend to be closer to settlements than Monster Lairs or the Undead Graveyards, so they get found earlier even by the AI.

    There should be some Tigran spawner site too, that spawns desert raiders – racial Tigran units mixed with Scoundrels, Mounted Archers, etc.

    brigand encampments stay weak forever on normal strength. Their strength doesn’t change in like 100+ turns unless you’re playing on very strong for some reason. I’ve seen very strong defenders produce assassins and mini shadowstalkers.

    #214875

    Fenraellis
    Member

    brigand encampments stay weak forever on normal strength. Their strength doesn’t change in like 100+ turns unless you’re playing on very strong for some reason. I’ve seen very strong defenders produce assassins and mini shadowstalkers.

    Assassins will often be produced by the third or fourth spawn on even Normal settings… As for Lesser Shadow Stalkers, I’ve seen them generally around fourth or fifth spawn and beyond. Bandit Camps rarely survive long enough for that, though.

    #214884

    Ericridge
    Member

    brigand encampments stay weak forever on normal strength. Their strength doesn’t change in like 100+ turns unless you’re playing on very strong for some reason. I’ve seen very strong defenders produce assassins and mini shadowstalkers.

    Assassins will often be produced by the third or fourth spawn on even Normal settings… As for Lesser Shadow Stalkers, I’ve seen them generally around fourth or fifth spawn and beyond. Bandit Camps rarely survive long enough for that, though.

    Ooh didn’t know that. Thanks!

    #214885

    Dontar
    Member

    Yup, I’ve seen this

    #214938

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    The Bone Collectors make it look like there are mounds of bones surrounding the graveyard. 🙂

    And thanks on the info on brigand camps.

    #215033

    iceboy
    Member

    I just wish they would give us the option to control the spam from all sites and seals…

    You can adjust the frequency of spams in the settings

    Actually, you can adjust the number of spawning sites. Which, while similar, isn’t quite the same as the frequency, which remains within the same regular deviation of spawn timing, depending on the particular type of spawning site.

    Exactly I want to control the spam not just the number of sites!

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