Bringing sexy back to the AoW III interface

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Bringing sexy back to the AoW III interface

This topic contains 108 replies, has 60 voices, and was last updated by  Cosmicwitch 8 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 61 through 90 (of 109 total)
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  • #10623

    Edi
    Member

    To be honest, the new font looks like shit. And that’s putting it politely.

    I generally have had no problems with text, fonts or other stuff in most computer games, even when many people have complained of them being completely unreadable or very hard to read.

    I find the new font hard to read, needing to squint even with some of the sections in those partial screenshots. The letters blur together in some places, stretch out in others. Letter thickness is inconsistent, in some places parts of the letters seem barely a couple of pixels wide and in other places they are twice or three times as thick.

    The old font was consistent in appearance, clear and easy to read. The new font is inconsistent in appearance, smudged and blurry, very hard to read. There is NOTHING good that can be said about it.

    If you go with the new font, prepare to be deluged with complaints from those users who have vision problems of any kind. There are a lot among turn based strategy fans, as we found out with the Dominions 4 beta because that was the number one interface complaint from many of the veterans. The font there is better than the new choice for AoW3 (at least on a big monitor) and it still got slammed even there.

    EDIT: I figured I should add that even though my post formulation may not be the height of tact, it is not meant as an attack on anyone. The game is going to be awesome, but avoiding such an obvious mistake now when it is still easy to change seems desirable.

    #10624

    NuMetal
    Member

    The font itself is totally acceptable, I only dislike the numbers.
    Altogether I’d prefer the old font, but not by a whole lot. They are both good and I could go with either one.

    #10627

    meeber
    Member

    I did not mind the old font. It was clear and that is what really matters. But the new font does look better. But for me font and lore/fluff are low priorities, font being higher than lore. AS long as I can read what is on the screen I’m happy. The real important thing in games like this is of coarse game play (combat, exploration options, quests, sites etc.) And a player friendly UI (and a player friendly editor.)
    And from what I’ve seen and read you guys are right on the mark with this. Outstanding job DEVs.

    #10628

    meeber
    Member

    Upon further reflextion iHunterkiller is correct the number do look pretty bad.
    However I do like the letters.

    #10629

    meeber
    Member

    Funny… Some people here admit they know nothing about fonts, yet vote and voice their opinions on something they’ve just said they know nothing about. Typical democracy.
    <P></P>
    <P>Loading custom fonts would be great IMHO. We could load our own soundtrack so why not fonts? It shouldn’t be so difficult from dev point.</P>
    <P>The two fonts presented should both go in the bin. The old one is dull, boring, has no character as if it was designed by someone at Apple Inc. The new one looks as if someone used an old-timey typewriter, heavily worn-out and a bit broken at that. None fits a fantasy game. The original AOW1, even though it mostly generic celtic font, still works much better than any of those (although I want to see something fresher than generic celtic fonts).</P>

    One does not need to know anything about fonts to see them with thier eyes and determain which they like the best. Just as you don’t need to know anything about the creation of a PC game in order to know if you like the finished product or not. Love Demacracy.

    #10630

    meeber
    Member

    Edi it is a good thing you put that last edit at the bottom of your post for using the S – word. I used the word ‘dumb’ in another tread and you would have thought it was the end of the world for something very minor.

    #10631

    Tomipapa
    Member

    Edi it is a good thing you put that last edit at the bottom of your post for using the S – word. I used the word ‘dumb’ in another tread and you would have thought it was the end of the world for something very minor.

    Can you stop playing the drama queen finally? Everytime you come here you start crying like a little girl about how some of those evil fans bashed you a bit. It’s really irritating. And by the way there is a “little” difference between calling the fonts shit and saying that the descriptions are dumb and AoW has no story at all.

    #10632

    The old font was consistent in appearance, clear and easy to read. The new font is inconsistent in appearance, smudged and blurry, very hard to read. There is NOTHING good that can be said about it.

    Nothing good at all? That seems a little harsh (and untrue) so here are the defining quotes on what fantasy is (and why we need fonts that have a fantasy feel).

    “Enchantment produces a Secondary World into which both designer and
    spectator can enter, to the satisfaction of their senses while they are inside; but in its purity it is artistic in desire and purpose.” And also

    “For creative Fantasy is founded upon the hard recognition that things are so in the world as it appears under the sun; on a recognition of fact, but not a slavery to it.” Tolkien, On Fairy Stories.

    “For fantasy is true, of course. It isn’t factual, but it is true.” Ursula Le Guinn, Why are Americans Afraid of Dragons?

    As these quotes point out, it is the very goal of fantasy to be non utilitarian, to “pierce the pasteboard mask” of our daily existence through pretty and different things. That’s why I insist that there be a good fantasy font, and insofar as the new font is more fantastic than the old, then I like it better.

    Of course, if you actually can’t read this, it is understandable for you to complain. After all, we do have to be able to read it. Allowing a plain font option would be an acceptable compromise, for people with vision problems. I suppose those who who insist on absolute readability over aesthetics can use it as well (why are those people playing a fantasy game; shouldn’t they be reading the stock report?).

    #10634

    I find the new font hard to read, needing to squint even with some of the sections in those partial screenshots.

    For the data conveyed in those screenshots, coupled with the clear iconographic echo of the text, comprehension is pretty much a non-issue for that font.

    Aesthetic is far more important for the amount of text in this game than an absolute immediate character recognition– you’d likely have the same font in every single game, designed to military radar spec for that.

    You should be looking at the average use case: if you need to do more than glance at the name of these spells after playing the game a bit, there’s probably a bigger problem than just font choice.

    If they wanted for areas of high ‘eye traffic’, they could increase the font size by a point or two.

    #10635

    BlaneckW
    Member

    oh blah blah just make the font changeable, how hard can it be.

    #10640

    Nikoline
    Member

    im thinking not about fonts. I see game graphic will be much much more better but i really fear what gameplay will be much much more cheaper. Only one
    example — In city siege mode only front attack possible now —-same with “Heroes” 1…6 :-(((( Why siege system aow 3 same with Heroes now???lol!!!

    Very very Often most of modern games look better and have tonnes visual effects, tonnes of features and poor AI and much more cheap gameplay .I very hope AOW3 will be much better more interesting and dont cheaper than aow2.
    I VERY HOPE!!!!!
    p/s sorry if my english not very well

    #10645

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Edi wrote:</div>
    I find the new font hard to read, needing to squint even with some of the sections in those partial screenshots.

    For the data conveyed in those screenshots, coupled with the clear iconographic echo of the text, comprehension is pretty much a non-issue for that font.

    Aesthetic is far more important for the amount of text in this game than an absolute immediate character recognition– you’d likely have the same font in every single game, designed to military radar spec for that.

    You should be looking at the average use case: if you need to do more than glance at the name of these spells after playing the game a bit, there’s probably a bigger problem than just font choice.

    If they wanted for areas of high ‘eye traffic’, they could increase the font size by a point or two.

    This game is complex. There are tons of abilities, spells, descriptions, lore, etc. to get familiar with. Those, in time – a lot of it, probably – you could skip reading. But the textual information doesn’t end there: There will be a combat log, mods with new/modified content, a chat window, etc. that you will need to read everytime. The combat log, for instance, will display a lot of numbers and, if they’re not easy to read, then it’s not doing a good job.

    I’m all for a stilized, fantasy font, as long as it remains clear.

    tl;dr: For a game as complex as this one, you need a easily readable font.

    #10646

    Edi
    Member

    It is actually not difficult to find a font that is both aesthetically more pleasing than Arial or other sans serif style fonts, but which are still clear and easy to read. However, the new font does not belong in that category. At least not at the point sizes in the screenshots.

    As it happens, I am looking at this from an average use case, because I am an average use case. I don’t have complex vision problems, though I do wear glasses. The new font in the screenshots still makes my eyes hurt, even though I can read it. It’s unpleasant, however.

    The arguments about stock reports and military radar fonts are ridiculous and gross distortions or oversimplifications of what I was saying and do not deserve any response beyond derisive laughter.

    I do like the other spellbook improvements, such as turns required to research a spell. The information and “etching” (school, level etc) surrounding the graphic of the spell could use a little darkening, to about the same degree as the font for spell name is or just a shade less, to make them more clearly visible.

    #10647

    Agree with the last 2 posts above.
    From design principles point of view typical fantasy fonts are primarily decorative, and are not designed to be used as the main font for long passages of text. However this does not mean that we should use boring fonts. Fonts that are clear and easy to read while being more visually pleasing than the proverbial arial do exist and these are the ones the devs should go for.

    #10649

    The arguments about stock reports and military radar fonts are ridiculous and gross distortions or oversimplifications of what I was saying and do not deserve any response beyond derisive laughter.

    Too bad: 1). I wasn’t referring to you, since I said that those who have moderate vision problems have a valid reason for emphasizing a more readable font 2). Some people have actually said that readability should be the critical focus above and beyond any fantasy element and 3). that’s the example Ursula Le Guinn uses in her essay “Why Are Americans Afraid of Dragons?” as the highest example of the plain and quotidian world that we live in: I hardly think she deserves derisive laughter.

    #10668

    Edi
    Member

    Too bad: 1). I wasn’t referring to you, since I said that those who have moderate vision problems have a valid reason for emphasizing a more readable font 2). Some people have actually said that readability should be the critical focus above and beyond any fantasy element and 3). that’s the example Ursula Le Guinn uses in her essay “Why Are Americans Afraid of Dragons?” as the highest example of the plain and quotidian world that we live in: I hardly think she deserves derisive laughter.

    If you’re going to respond to me by quoting my post and then be unclear enough in your own that even two readings of what you wrote still come across as a full rejection of my point of view, you need to work more on your clarity of expression.

    The post I am now quoting is clear in its meaning, with no ambiguity whatsoever. I actually agree with your points, but I do not think the LeGuin quote is relevant, since it addresses the content of text instead of the physical appearance of the text, which is the focus here.

    I suppose if Triumph Studios wanted, they could make up an entire fantasy alphabet and write all in-game descriptions using that and it would all make for a very authentic feel. Something like what was done in Betrayal at Krondor with the Moredhel riddle chests, or in Ultima 4 and 5 with the runic alphabet. I actually took the time to learn to read both untranslated, which was fun and certainly increased immersion. While both alphabets were fantastic, neither one of them was unclear.

    #10671

    I’m struggling to read the new font in the first & second image, the newer font looks more like it’s in bold weighting? Which might work better on the old font? Can we see a screenshot of that please?

    #10678

    If you’re going to respond to me by quoting my post and then be unclear enough in your own that even two readings of what you wrote still come across as a full rejection of my point of view, you need to work more on your clarity of expression.

    Well, I did stick the agreement element at the end, without a “thesis sentence” clearly labeling the totality of my reaction. however, I thought it was clear that I was reacting to the “nothing good at all” element, and you hadn’t clearly distinguished your objection to the font as “I hate this font/feel it is unreadable and doesn’t serve fantasy needs”, from what some others have said to the effect that the “fantasy nature of script isn’t relevant.”

    Well, now that everyone is crystal clear, I think we can move the argument beyond derisive laughter and ambiguity.

    It is true that Le Guinn was directly addressing not the type, but the content; however, my contention is that the type is an important element of the content for immersion reasons, because of the subtle impact and sense that different font types imply.

    Consider the phrase “Napoleon is the current emperor of France”. In any font, it has the same objective reference; the man Napoleon by way of his imperial title in France. However a plain times new roman font, a fancy script font, something foreboding, or a funny font each give a different “sense” to the phrase. It’s like how Neil Gaiman gave each Sandman character a different (and character appropriate) type convention for thought bubbles in that comic.

    Tolkien is probably the best example of this, with his multiple linguistic developments and different script types (all invented by elves, even the “dwarvish runes”) that he included and described to add character to his work.

    Now, taking all of that into account is why I want at least the option for a general font that is a little fantasy esque. I think the new font is a move in the right direction in this context, but I’m not married to it. If a large subgroup of people actually can’t read it, I’m all for trying other options, as long as “fantasyness” is kept as one of the considerations.

    On a side note, that was an awesome, Futurama level of development in Betrayal at Krondor and Ultima 4 and 5; I’ll have to check those out.

    #10707

    Andocair
    Member

    The old font was too clean, that’s right. But while the new one is looking a little more fantasy, it’s readability suffers to the point, where I would consider it overall worse than the old one.

    The Name of ‘Gustav Gorsmog’ looks good in the new font, but it could be a tad bigger. The unit names in the dragon article look very good too.

    The lowercase numbers are easier on the eye, and I like them quite well. The 5 however looks a little too wacky.

    And then there is the running text. While in general serifs help connect the letters to a single text, the font itself I think is too bold in smaller sizes, especialy on the Unit descriptions it is a blight. It reminds me very much of the ‘Times’ font, which is a print font for novels and newspapers, but no screen font.

    AoW:SM had a very readable, and very fantasy font. In AoW2 it was the same one I think. That one I would prefere over any of the two presented here. The subtle handwriting characteristics like diagonally cut off, or stroke like thinning and thickening lines, fit the aesthetics and scenario perfectly. You propably want a new font too underline, that this is a new age, and a new game (I know I would), but don’t be afraid to reuse the font, or use a similar one. The new interface looks new enough, and in the end usability for a UI is more improtant, than making something completely new.

    #10711

    ZombieEater
    Member

    Like the new font. The numbers are a bit quirky, but it’s not like you can’t read them. Gives it some character IMO.

    #10716

    LegioIX
    Member

    The new one is better indeed!

    #10726

    RevenantK
    Member

    In the fisrt pic the new one look a bit better (in my opinion), in the second one they both look almost the same.

    And the back ground design seem somewhat unprofessional (just look at the paper), and white texts on black make me feel like looking at some cheap mobile game.

    In short the whole design look boring and uninspired, it not just the font that got problem.

    While the 3D artists had done their jobs well, the 2D artist still have a lot to learn.

    The game look fine at first glance, it’s just that “below the rest” level of 2d art is somewhat unexpected.

    #10729

    Would prefer the new one if it was slightly larger (bolded?) and clearer. It looks pretty murky at the moment but maybe that’s just the screenshot quality.

    #10733

    Anonymous

    I like the font change, but I still find the interface far too reminiscent of Civilization V. The colour scheme is basically the same. I do like a modern/fantasy combination though, as pure fantasy often seems cheesy and unreadable. The interface works, but is not interesting in any way. Maybe too cartoony, wouldn’t mind a whole overhaul, maybe with the colour scheme reflecting your nation’s chosen colours.

    #10734

    This game is complex. There are tons of abilities, spells, descriptions, lore, etc. to get familiar with. Those, in time – a lot of it, probably – you could skip reading. But the textual information doesn’t end there: There will be a combat log, mods with new/modified content, a chat window, etc. that you will need to read everytime. The combat log, for instance, will display a lot of numbers and, if they’re not easy to read, then it’s not doing a good job.

    I’m all for a stilized, fantasy font, as long as it remains clear.

    tl;dr: For a game as complex as this one, you need a easily readable font.

    So okay, have you played Age of Wonders 2? The AoW series is designed to provide ‘at a glance’ data systems pictorially so it can focus on being more immediately tactical with a fairly quick turn clip.

    Now compare this to something like Dominions 4 (a game I also like quite a bit)– this is a very heavy planning game with long turns, and a rather huge text output. For that, eye ease is a priority.

    But for a more ‘visceral’ fantasy experience, immersion can become more paramount among the fans. It might seem paradoxical, but some people attracted to this game may enjoy having ‘harder to read’ text. Like pouring over some dusty hand-written ancient spellbook.

    AoW should focus on having a fantasy ‘feel’, especially diversified from Civ, with tactics preserving immersion in addition to providing lasting playability through player-driven customization and a detailed palette of creatures and abilities to do so.

    #10736

    Alexan89
    Member

    Both old and new fonts are good.
    The only issue is the size of the new font,
    if it was bigger i think it would be way better.

    My oppinion? Keep the new font but change it’s size a bit.

    #10737

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    Both old and new fonts are good.<br>
    The only issue is the size of the new font,<br>
    if it was bigger i think it would be way better.

    My oppinion? Keep the new font but change it’s size a bit.

    I agree with this. I prefer the new font because to me, for a fantasy strategy game, the old font feels lazy in comparison. I’m not saying the devs were lazy; it’s a great placeholder, but a fantasy game with a decent font is important. Just adds character and immersion and all those fun things. But if the devs decide, despite the votes, to put in the old font, my life would still continue as normal and the world will still turn.

    I cannot for the life of me understand, even after reading all 3 pages, why some people are so vehemently against this font. It does need a smidgen of a size increase, but come on guys, it’s not like it’s hieroglyphs -_-

    And though it pains me to say this, I agree with BlaneckW. If you hate it so much, then edit or mod it when the game comes out. Good grief. Anyone would think Triumph are trying to massacre kittens with the way some of you guys are carrying on.

    #10748

    Will massacring kittens be in the game?

    #10749

    Findecano19
    Member

    I totally agree with you…

    I think both are good but I like the new front the most because it looks older and less cheap.

    The thing is that when the game comes out we all gone play it on a larger screen so I think it will be much better then these sceeen shot pictures. And What also has been said maybe it is less clear then the old one but for sure the new one isn’t onclear, we all can see that the 7 isn’t a 8… I think it is great that triump Whats to put more feeling in the game… and as you said the world will not end Whatever the choice so people calm down 😉

    #10773

    aarion81
    Member

    I like the new font much better, and voted as such. However, I do think it’s a bit small/hard on the eyes. All the videos and screenshots I’ve seen of the game so far are breath-taking; please don’t make us have to squint to read the text

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