Can stun be made interesting instead of just powerful?

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Can stun be made interesting instead of just powerful?

This topic contains 5 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Hatmage 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #176741

    Hatmage
    Member

    I feel the reason people despair of stunning effects is that they reduce the number of intersting choices players make. I think it should be possible for the ability to be interesting to play with and against by making it into something that creates strategic choices instead of taking them away.

    Frankly, if a unit is doing nothing, that is boring. If it is dangerous or difficult for a unit to do anything, that is interesting. With this in mind, what if, in stead of absolutely locking down a unit, stunning drained movement or action points, while keeping the “every hit flanks” effect. You can now do things with stunned units. Things such as getting them killed or very badly hurt. This might not be the best way the ability could be designed, but I feel it should be possible to keep stunning as a powerful CC effect without simply saying “you don’t move this unit this turn”. Because every unit that does nothing in a turn makes that turn more boring.

    Just something to discuss.

    #176821

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Been thinking about that as well, to tell the truth.

    I do think, though, that the problematic thing are the shield effects, that is, all stun that happen to an attacking unit (it a unit is stunned/frozen/webbed/netted because of an enemy attack, that’s ok-ish, game-wise).

    Consider a unit attacking another one with Stun AND Static Shield (and possibly First Strike on top): the attacker hits, and whether the defender dies or is frozen or whatever, Static Shield hits back. After that, retaliation. Logical, but pretty massive.

    The two effects are different, though: To defend against static shield, you just have to insulate THE WEAPON (that is, the grip), with a layer of insulating material, which should be easy to do (Hero ability? Medal effect?) for those that actually fight with a (metal) weapon.
    It could be simplified so that Static Shield would work only against units that attack with hands, claws, tooth and so on – on DIRECT contact, simply ASSUMING, that all weapons have been insulated.

    So that would be a nerf for static shield – DIRECT CONTACT necessary for it to work.

    #176852

    Hatmage
    Member

    I like the idea of insulated weapons, but bear in mind wood is about the best insulator that fits the period, unless people start building glass swordhilts, and doesn’t stand up that well to actual arcing, as it is flammable. Perhaps polearms, or any two handed/long reach weapon could grant extra defence and resistance against shield effects? It might also be fun for gameplay, if rather unrealistic, if assasin’s strike could bypass the shield effects.

    I think that the shield abilities and inflict stun are both bigger issues than the touch attacks, but that inflict stun at range is on par with the worst of the shield abilities.

    Honestly, I think that sorcerers are currently hard to get right, because if inflict stun is reliable, they are boring for the player and frustrating for his opponent, while if it can only lock down chaff that most supports can kill anyway there is no point.

    Hence the idea of keeping the chance fairly high, but nerfing the actual effect inflicted. Currently, even if a stun is dispelled, the unit stunned is lowered to one action point. If this stays the same – reducing the stun victim’s AP by 2 – but we still allow them to stagger and even attack in an easily flanked daze, then we get a couple of nice effects:
    One is that stunning a melee attacker still stops him from hitting you any more this turn.
    The other is that crossbows, muskets and other simple point and fire weapons can still be used by a reeling unit in self defence, and that units with such weapons, or some other means of doing good damage at one AP, become counter units to stunners without needing to be immune to electricity, incentivising sorcerers and other stun users to recruit troops which counter these units in turn, which causes varied army composition and allows for interesting tactics.

    #176921

    Sindir
    Member

    +1
    Yeah good ideas here for more individual and interesting abilities.
    Cause i think everybody knows that all the different abilities like
    petrify, froze, net, stun and and and… mostly do all the same,
    so to change some of them a bit would be cool.

    #176961

    chronobomb
    Member

    It’s already good to bring varied armies. Inflict stun is chancy sitting in the 10-40% depending on the tier you are fighting. If you don’t bring units that can inflict shock, your not gonna stun more than half the units if not less.

    The new freeze works the same way.

    #177048

    Hatmage
    Member

    Chronobomb, the effective chance is higher, because stun infliction units often make multiple attacks. Add to this that sorcerers in particular can throw star blades on supports and thus have ranged shocking and stunning (and possibly spirit breaking) on one unit and you end up with sorcerers not being very melee dependant at all. Though this may be an argument to make star blades only shock in melee.

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