Class & Race Survey

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Class & Race Survey

This topic contains 89 replies, has 61 voices, and was last updated by  Gloweye 6 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 61 through 90 (of 90 total)
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  • #213803

    Lord of Riva
    Member

    The class system is one of the best parts of the game , i love it (including the class specifc skills)

    i would like to the expansion on the amount of classes and races still, as i mentioned before, something less human would be nice.

    #213806

    Urizen
    Member

    The best thing in my opinion would be mantaining the class system, AND allowing class skill customization, maybe with a mini skill-tree for each class, to encourage diversity while mantaining the feel each class has.

    In addition I would point out that Diplomacy and LevelEd may be in the last position just because of their current state, as you can see these are the only two cases where the needed focus surpass the enjoyment.

    Remember that the LevelEd and Modding support is what really would keep the game alive for DECADES!

    #213813

    Lord of Riva
    Member

    In addition I would point out that Diplomacy and LevelEd may be in the last position just because of their current state, as you can see these are the only two cases where the needed focus surpass the enjoyment.

    Remember that the LevelEd and Modding support is what really would keep the game alive for DECADES!

    i would say its in the last place because not as many people CAN mod (or willing to learn it) but then you can also see that quite a few people wish improvements for it

    the discrepancy between enjoyment and improvement requests should certainly be taken into account though, lets hope that well see some improvements there

    #213880

    I guess my two cents on the current class/race system is that it seems like between race, class, and specializations; Race seems to be the least important one. Sure, it seems pretty relevant from the start, specially if you’re starting with Goblins or Halflings. Its just as the game goes on you start inducting more races into your empire your original choice loses meaning. You starting racial units start getting lost and switched with other races as only their roles matter. Unless you’re just feeling like an evil git and migrating out anything that isn’t your original race. Then your race’s properties will shine for a bit longer till you start investing in class units. It’s at that point you start shifting over from your race’s play style to your class’s. Losing all racial difference say for a name, model, and a few stats. The worst is in the Dreadnought where your race is completely omitted from the end game units. No, now that I think about it the worst is the Sorcerer where your race is taken into consideration for only one class unit. Now I’m saying that without having played Eternal Lords so take that with a grain of salt.
    …Guess I should talk specializations for a moment since I just unloaded about races and classes. They’re like sides to the main focus that is your character’s class. Sure there’s some that fit better with races/class but it’s also fun to mix them up and see how things turn out.

    #213915

    Draxynnic
    Member

    No, now that I think about it the worst is the Sorcerer where your race is taken into consideration for only one class unit.

    I actually tend to think sorcerer may be the class where race matters most. All but one sorcerer unit is summoned, so you’re probably going to want to be building something from your cities to supplement the summons, and if that doesn’t translate into ‘spam apprentices’, this means you’re naturally going to be producing some of the pure racial units.

    #213921

    @ Drax, my understanding of what people mean when they say that “Sorceror matters least for race” is that there is, as you say, little racial/class overlap.

    Now you can say, as you have, that the result is that it means race actually matters more, precisely because of little overlap, but ultimately I don’t think Xelotath and you are that far off from each other.

    Then again, if your plan is to go for Pure summoning then your racial units are likely to be ranged garrisons, so matter less.

    #213922

    Kiro
    Member

    I personally think races should have a bigger impact than what they currently do.

    Right now, I don’t feel as if there’s a great impact, aside from Tigran and Frostlings, of picking one race over the other in the long term, compared to picking your class or specialization. Unless you’re a Dwarf or a Goblin in a subterranean map.

    #213934

    Lord of Riva
    Member

    i would suggest a random map option that only enables chosen races as independents on the map. tada race matters.

    Race has a Huge Impact on a lot of classes, mainly the damage channels but also some of the abilities. dont Goblin phalanxces have lidesteal now? and my Tigran crusaders have sun shields etc.

    i agree i think all classes should have a variation of class/race units. Druid, Sorc and necro (and maybe even the dreadnought) fall a bit short on this.

    more class/race units please 😛 !
    less generic class units

    #213985

    greyclouds
    Member

    For the “I’D LIKE RACE TO HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT ON PLAY STYLE THAN CLASS” question, I chose “disagree” for the survey, but I would like to clarify on this question a bit more.

    What I would like to see is race having an influence on play style a tiny bit more in the game. Racial governance was an excellent step in the right direction, but it still feels that selecting a primary race doesn’t always affect your playstyle with the different classes.

    Supporting evidence:
    * Human vs high elf warlord
    * Most dreadnoughts
    * Most necromancers

    Notable exception to this:
    * Contrasting goblin rogues (squishy) vs dwarven rogues (more staying power). Goblin rogues have trouble clearing treasure sites and must produce more units all the time than their dwarven counterparts.

    I would like to see a more overt mechanism that makes starting race matter just a tiny bit more in the cases where it doesn’t really affect overall playstyle. For example, perhaps one race-specific spell/empire upgrade for each class?

    #213990

    Gloweye
    Member

    You could add Sorcs under supporting evidence. BTW, I disagree on high elf and human Warlords feeling the same, even if it’s just based on Mounted Archers. (longbow vs 2 spirit damage? now that’s a simple choice…)

    That said, I’m always in support of more (racial) diversity, if done with at least regard for the lore and in a non-random manner.

    #213999

    Nodor
    Member

    For the “I’D LIKE RACE TO HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT ON PLAY STYLE THAN CLASS” question, I chose “disagree” for the survey, but I would like to clarify on this question a bit more.

    What I would like to see is race having an influence on play style a tiny bit more in the game. Racial governance was an excellent step in the right direction, but it still feels that selecting a primary race doesn’t always affect your playstyle with the different classes.

    Supporting evidence:
    * Human vs high elf warlord
    * Most dreadnoughts
    * Most necromancers

    Notable exception to this:
    * Contrasting goblin rogues (squishy) vs dwarven rogues (more staying power). Goblin rogues have trouble clearing treasure sites and must produce more units all the time than their dwarven counterparts.

    I would like to see a more overt mechanism that makes starting race matter just a tiny bit more in the cases where it doesn’t really affect overall playstyle. For example, perhaps one race-specific spell/empire upgrade for each class?

    I’m confused.

    For High Elf Warlord the go to unit is Mounted Archers. For Human Warlord, I tend to skip the class units and just use Human Knights. These are very different builds/playstyles.

    There was a stream of goblineer (goblins with engineer rush) yesterday. That is not how you “normally” play dreadnaught. I can also see taking dreadnaught with dwarves and skipping machines.

    I can’t really comment on necromancer, because I rarely play it.

    But, you can play race first builds and I love the racial adjustments to the class units currently in place.

    #214056

    greyclouds
    Member

    You could add Sorcs under supporting evidence. BTW, I disagree on high elf and human Warlords feeling the same, even if it’s just based on Mounted Archers. (longbow vs 2 spirit damage? now that’s a simple choice…)

    That said, I’m always in support of more (racial) diversity, if done with at least regard for the lore and in a non-random manner.

    Fair enough — I rarely play warlord, but when I do I rely on the hard-hitting tier 3’s and 4’s usually. It was my mistake with the elven vs human comparison.

    I’m really not sure what I would like to see, apart from some more racial differentiation and maybe a race-specific skill/spell for each class. I still feel that humans need some more attention here — I do not agree with the argument that you need one baseline race and their mariner ability is only good on certain map-types.

    #214088

    Gloweye
    Member

    I do not agree with the argument that you need one baseline race and their mariner ability is only good on certain map-types.

    Well, they’ve been getting more unique along the patches.

    #214116

    Tasslehoff
    Member

    Cant modify my votes, but I would have preferred more racial diversity and no class at all.

    #214124

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    I think they already added a LOT of variety to races by making even class units very different from each other based on what race they come from. It’s a lot of fun and makes you think about what race to play with what class – or helps you use a multi-cultural empire if say, you want both Dwarf Crusaders with Defensive Strike and Tigran Crusaders with Sun Shields in your army. 🙂

    #214216

    Gilafron
    Member

    Gilafron, not to accuse you of being wildly inconsistent or anything, but you want to “get rid of alignment and replace it with” a system that adds “Dedicated to Good/Evil.” Come again?

    Are you saying you want your alignment to be whatever you say it is, having nothing to do with your actions, just your build?

    I can see where my comment was confusing. 🙂 Essentially, I suggest expanding specialization so that a player picks a play style before the game, instead of the game trying to determine the player’s play style. Good and Evil can stick around, but it would be in a different form. Demons and other nasties are still Dedicated to Evil. Unicorns, angels, and so on are Dedicated to Good. Based on my specialization choices, my empire has a tendency toward an alignment. If a Peacemaker keeps declaring war on independent cities, then the empire suffers a happiness penalty.

    There’s too many variables for the game to determine alignment. For instance, I really don’t think two evil leaders making an alliance should penalize them. My suggestion is that players pick a play style before starting the game. And that play style will give them benefits and drawbacks.

    #214292

    Sirrkas
    Member

    I expect that they anticipate a shakeup when Meandor &c start pouring back thru the portal, and they haven’t finalized their new designs.
    It also sounds like the changes might, depending upon how big a shakeup it is, force a AoW:SM vs AoW2 type of split where the rules are different enough that you play in either classic (pre-Portal) or expansion (post-portal) modes. If this is in fact on the table, it would be a gutsy move.

    When it comes to a game, where one can either decide, to play one of the classes or to join as Wizardking, I would totally look forward to it.

    That could at least explain the question about more or less influence on classskills.

    #214347

    Kastore
    Member

    I’d like Eternal Lords features. But I think that the game requires a couple of changes.

    At first, it is about race and class system. In every part of AoW there was a lot of playeble races. And the classical standard is 12. We have many old races and abandoned the strong restriction of aligment to race. However, we have 4 “neutrals” (humans, tigrans, frosts, dragonkins), 3 “good” races (halflings, elves, dwarves) and only 2 evil (goblins, orcs). For the great balance it could be great to have 1 good race and 2 evils. In AoW setting we have some interesting variants for playable races. Minotaurs from AoW 2 and Werewolves from AoW beta as evil races. Syrons or some spirit-like folk as good race.

    Also, people need to have ability to choose different classes in one match. That’s why it should be nor less then 8. It could be Demonologist, which connected with Shadow Realm. Or Merchant an advanced diplomate and trader.

    Secondly, I need to stress the question about multiplayer. It should be more dynamic: when I play with other players (3-4 people) — our turns are very long. It happens because of we need to wait every player who charges in battles. People need an option to fight at the same time.

    And another importaint thing is about interface. I think, there is more comfortable to make all descisions about matches in the game lobby. Such as customising hero, your banner and it’s color. Sometimes people need to change their choice before the game starts.

    #214350

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    Dude, the mods are asking about improving race/class ratio. Not adding new races – that I bet they are planning already. 🙂
    Also, in the new alignment system… any race can be good or evil. I have met a lot of Evil Human and Draconian cities.
    I do expect they will eventually introduce the Dark Elves as a separate race. Note how the now unified High Elves don’t really have any formerly dark-elf-like unit. I bet whenever Meandor returns – or maybe some Necromancer raises the elven heroine’s brother from the dead – the dark elves will be back. The commonwealth has surely given plenty of reasons for elves to hate humans (and dwarves) again.

    And all the cryptic warnings of Merlin are definitely about the Shadow Demons returning. 🙂 Now that’s a race I’d love to see again – they could be done right this time with a very unique racial mechanism – maybe they could work like the Zerg and infest cities to turn them to their race, and mutate their own units. The harvester would be a very powerful Tier III for them… I think the Lord would be too powerful as a Tier III. Maybe as a summoned being.

    #214352

    Buczer
    Member

    I do not agree with the argument that you need one baseline race and their mariner ability is only good on certain map-types.

    Well, they’ve been getting more unique along the patches.

    Yeap, they are fun to play. Actually after all patches, they are no longer vanilaboring at all. Basic human units are universally usefull, they are water speedsters, they are good at the most common terrain types, they expend like a rats.

    #214355

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Also, in the new alignment system… any race can be good or evil. I have met a lot of Evil Human and Draconian cities.

    Any race can be good or evil, but the races do have tendencies. Independent cities belonging to High Elves, Dwarves, and Halflings are more likely to be good, while independent cities belonging to orcs or goblins are more likely to be evil.

    Dwellings also have tendencies: the more units that can potentially be made at the dwelling that are dedicated to an alignment, the more likely that an independent dwelling of that type will lean towards that alignment.

    #214362

    Kastore
    Member

    Any race can be good or evil, but the races do have tendencies. Independent cities belonging to High Elves, Dwarves, and Halflings are more likely to be good, while independent cities belonging to orcs or goblins are more likely to be evil.

    Dwellings also have tendencies: the more units that can potentially be made at the dwelling that are dedicated to an alignment, the more likely that an independent dwelling of that type will lean towards that alignment.

    That is what I meant. Thank you.

    #214732

    Hasbulat
    Member

    The class system is one of the best parts of the game , i love it (including the class specifc skills)

    i would like to the expansion on the amount of classes and races still, as i mentioned before, something less human would be nice.

    It is exactly my opinion too.
    I’d prefere, the diplomcy, AI and RMG will be improved in the next patches. And additional races and classes. I dont like a necro. Better something more fantasy-like, please.
    Also a cast system should be improved. Why I couldnt set forests on mountings, for example. Or remove water or mountings.

    #214744

    Ragnarok777
    Member

    I agree as well with that,
    But to my mind, the next expansion if there comes any shall focus on maybe one new unit for each classes to make them more able to handle any foes(rogue vs necro= necro winner by far!) because they rely on poison, cold and mind while the undead are immune to mind and poison and resistant to cold!(a more brutish unit rogue or shadow kind would fit)
    And of course more races and classes would be very good.
    One more desert race like nomads and one more cold based like vikings would fit well to counter all the loving plains (only the tigrans and frostlings really have problems with opposite land(or make a new race love wasteland)
    The dreadnought still miss a gyrocopter or something flying and bombing like it!
    Anyways, this game is one of my favorites!
    Keep up the good work triumph!
    Amazing work so far with incredibly never seen before immersion in this fantasy world!

    #215029

    esvath
    Member

    So, what is the news for this weekend? 🙂

    #215041

    Flamespike
    Member

    I’m ready for another survey!

    #215090

    Jaim
    Member

    Just dropping by to say that now after the second expansion I find it hard to think of anything I could wish for in terms of content.

    There is certainly room for improvement in the areas of diplomacy and maybe strategic AI, but everything else is just so masterfully executed that I seriously feel that AoW3 is the best fantasy TBS ever (and i played them all).

    Racial governance is one of the concepts that I would love to see expanded in view of the apparent intent to change races/classes/specialisations.

    #215111

    Taykor
    Member

    It’s a little strange for me (as I thought I don’t need more classes) but now I think one more magical class would actually be good. It’s just becomes a little repetitive playing Sorcerer and Necromancer all the time (ok, occasionally Druid, but I’m not a fan). I can’t really play Theo as I don’t like it thematically, Rogue is a little too tricky (though I’ll try), Warlord and Dread are boring (maybe actually only thematically, but it’s enough for me).
    So, Warlock, Demonologist, Wizard(!!!) – or any other brilliant idea which devs could implement would be good.
    As for ‘magical’ – Necro is magical enough, for example: several truly useful and unique summons, a lot of interesting and useful combat and strategic spells, mana-increasing technology accomplish that well enough.

    Or.
    Make Specializations really matter. I know there will be objections that they already are, but it’s wrong. I mean that Fire Sorcerer and Wind Sorcerer (for example) would be really different from each other (like Wizards in SM were). Now they are not: you need to learn the exactly the same key technologies, spells, you use exactly the same units (maybe depending on the leader’s race), you would aim for more or less the same late game goals (in spells and techs again). Yes, specs could add some variation: raze or absorb cities, more racial units or less, you can diversify a little your most used damage source by race and spec (but not too much). Not enough.

    #215758

    ptlans
    Member

    I hate how it seems like from the results of this survey that this series is going to stray even further from the original features of the previous games. Cutting back on customization/optimization seems to be what the survey is calling for. I don’t see why anyone wants the game to be more cookie cutter, forcing people to use certain features rather than allowing everyone to develop their own play-style from a wide array of options.

    TBH though I question the validity of a survey with so few responses.

    #215799

    Gloweye
    Member

    I hate how it seems like from the results of this survey that this series is going to stray even further from the original features of the previous games. Cutting back on customization/optimization seems to be what the survey is calling for. I don’t see why anyone wants the game to be more cookie cutter, forcing people to use certain features rather than allowing everyone to develop their own play-style from a wide array of options.

    TBH though I question the validity of a survey with so few responses.

    It’s around 400 votes. I’ll admit you can’t say it’s the “community”, but I do daresay you can base something on it, especially with the bigger majorities.

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