Class units diversity

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Balance Class units diversity

This topic contains 125 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  Zaskow 7 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 91 through 120 (of 126 total)
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  • #173564

    Zaskow
    Member

    Remarks; Wont use them, halfling/human/elf/dwarf no matter the new cool abilities, (beard warbreed? :d that CGI thing in the first Hobbit movie was bad enough, let’s not make it worse) IMO leave them be until a new Dlc or mod replaces em with something acceptable, i suppose if the right thing won’t be done those suggestions are pretty good, i rather see devs focus on other things, like improving the dread final spell that needs attention.

    *sigh*
    Look, my friend, I’m also not very happy with appearance of some units in game and some gameplay decisions, but I accepted them, coz I know, that Triumph is small indi game studio and can’t afford additional 3d artwork and time for coding. This thread was focused on making races more diverse using ready gameplay elements (skills, abilities).

    and then translated (which costs money).

    Well, for me it is not big problem to translate for you into Russian for free (if it is not poetry – I’m pretty bad with translating poetry). Ask your fans. I think you find enough willing people.

    #173574

    Hide
    Member

    So I just had a walk and thought a bit about how to add diversity to the dread. I focused on the goblins for now. I personally like the way the goblins work with their debuffing theme. It kind of forces you to really find a nice balance in your army instead of spamming the “best” unit you can get. I wanted to do the same with the units of the dread.

    Gastank
    It was already mentioned before and I thought about it. I like the idea of it’s attack ignoring cover and my first idea was to add a lesser version of weakening that only reduces the blight-resistance by 40% or 20% but not the stats. Now you could either make the debuff stack with the “greater” weakening of the blight-doctor or you could make the weaking replace the debuff of the gastank. Either way the gastank would provide a overall small but effective debuff if you are using lots of goblin units with their blight damage.
    The other idea was to reduce its damage to the damage of weakening breath but instead of adding all the deseases the attack could inflict the debuff of choking gas for 1-2 turns.
    I think the explosive death should be removed or replaced by some kind of a gasfume hanging over the wreckage in a 1-hex-radius for 1-2 turns.

    Engineer
    I thought about adding a gas granade instead of the blinding one but the idea I really liked was to add a “scavanging”-ability. It would be a mixture of the maintenance and the victory rush ability. After a won battle the goblin engineer repairs the machines in its stack for a certain amount of HP. You could vary that on certain factors like enemy units involved or enemy stacks. You could also limit this ability to only goblin machines saying that other races would not let the engineers put junk on their precious machines.

    Cannon
    For the cannon I had the idea to replace their usual attack with a greater version of throwing filth. Dealing both physical and blight damage ( more than normal throwing filth obviously ) inflicting disgusting stench and maybe even weakening ( on a certain chance ). They would not be as effective at destroying walls as the usual cannon but with the right support they could be more effective against other units.

    I haven’t thought about the other units yet. You could add a kind of bleeding-aura to the wargolem, to make it seem like a rusty, spiky thing you don’t really want to touch. Another option of course would be disgusting stench again. I think the musketeers could stay the way they are. Maybe they could receive “volunteer” ( Is it named that way? ) at a certain medal if they don’t already have. You could lower some stats to keep it balanced.
    The Juggernaut obviously would need some changes, too. The easiest would be to replace the fire channel with blight. Instead of the physical surround-attack it could have some kind of gas-attack again with any kind of debuffs.

    #173601

    Astraflame
    Member

    @zaskow You’re overeacting. I”m only expressing my opinion like you are, relax. In the end you want me to accept your opinion but i wont, i stand by what i said and think warbreeds should be replaced at some point increasing racial diversity at the same time. Obviously it’s a future consideration and not for this x-pack, people have been wanting class specific racial units for a while so this could be done if the devs wanted it, warbreeds in particular shows the only (IMO) weakness of the class system, homogenous aesthetics leading to races feeling not so visually distinct, x pack is a huge step in the right direction as far as race diversity is concerned but this negative side still remains, one day i hope the devs or a skilled modder will do something about it.

    #173622

    Astraflame
    Member

    coz I know, that Triumph is small indi game studio and can’t afford additional 3d artwork and time for coding. This thread was focused on making races more diverse using ready gameplay elements (skills, abilities).

    I understand the purpose of the thread, it’s just that not every unit needs a special ability, Wls already got manticore diversity. I spoke against warbreeds since it’s going to take time/effort for them to implement this suggestion and i rather see them focus on the important stuff, the warbreed should receive a proper treatment when time/money allows (e.i the butcher—> skewer routine for half the races) I don’t mind the suggestion otherwise.

    #173646

    Fenraellis
    Member

    For what it’s worth, we are currently discussing some of the more viable ideas from within this thread(and a few other places).

    I can’t say which, though, sorry.

    I’m sure several of the discussed ideas will make it into the release patch(likely into the open beta patch within a week as well). Either for further testing, or already approved.

    #173741

    Mythabril
    Member

    Here are some ideas I’ve come up with about Dreadnought units. I’ll add them to the pile without further comment.

    Draconian

    Engineer:
    +20% Fire Resistance to 80% (together with the racial bonus 100%) and Lava Walking
    Replace Flash Bang with Flare, which causes 4 fire damage and Inflict Scorching Heat.
    Change visible skin to the red of Flamers.

    Musketeer:
    Add +20% Fire Resistance at Veteran and Elite

    Golem:
    Would require a new model.
    Turned into Dragon Walker. Dragon headed, blade armed walking dragon in gold and bronze with flames billowing from its mouth.
    Remove Wall Crushing and Demolisher.
    Add 40% Fire Resistance.
    Add Immolation ability, doing 20 points of damage in one adjacent hex and Inflict Immolation with 1 turn cooldown.
    Change melee damage to 15 physical and 4 fire.

    Dwarf

    Golem:
    Add Cave Crawling and Mountaineering.
    Change base cost to 90G/20M

    Cannon:
    Would require new model.
    Replaced with Mortar. Fire Mortar as Juggernaut and Ironclad.
    Base cost 130G/30M

    Juggernaut:
    Add Tunneling.

    Goblin

    Golem:
    Add Explosive Death from shoddy Goblin engineering.

    Cannon:
    Replace Fire Cannon with Fire Plague Cannon, doing 25 physical 5 blight damage and causes Disgusting Stench.

    Flame Tank:
    Replace Flame Throwing with Caustic Flames, doing 20 fire 5 blight damage and Inflict Noxious Vulnerability.
    Add Disgusting Stench and loses 20% fire resistance from shoddy goblin engineering.

    Juggernaut:
    Add Explosive Death from shoddy Goblin engineering.

    Halfling

    Golem:
    Turned into a Party Robot.
    Remove Demolisher.
    Add Fireworks.
    Replace Guard Breaker on Veteran with Nourishing Meal.

    Cannon:
    Turned into a Goulash Cannon, dispensing Nourishing Meals every other turn at long range. (this is a joke)

    Flame Tank:
    Add Quick Roast ability which adds/recharges Nourishing Meal if an animal is killed by the tank.

    Juggernaut:
    Add Fertile Path, replacing terrain it passed over with Fertile Plains.
    Change base cost to 320G/100M

    High Elf

    Musketeer:
    Add Crystal Bullets, modifying ranged damage by -2 physical, +2 shock damage.

    Golem:
    Would require new model.
    Turned into Spider Bot. Silvery mechanical spider with lightning arcing mandibles.
    Remove Wall Crushing and Demolisher.
    Add Improved Wall Climbing.
    Add Stunning Touch.
    Change damage to 10 physical, 8 shock.
    Replace Guard Breaker on Veteran with Inflict Shocking.
    Replace Defender on Elite with Inflict Stun.

    Flame Tank:

    Would require a new model.
    Turned into Prismatic Phalanx. A tank with a crystal spire on the turret shooting cosmic rays.
    Prismatic Spray ability does 4 physical, 4 blight, 4 frost, 4 fire, 4 spirit and 4 shock damage in a large cone.
    Add Inflict Dazzling on Veteran.
    Add Inflict Daze on Elite.
    Replace Explosive Death with Cosmic Death, doing 3 physical, 3 blight, 3 frost, 3 fire, 3 spirit and 3 shock damage in all adjacent hexes and spawns a random lesser elemental.

    Juggernaut:
    Remove Tree Crusher.

    Human

    Cannon:
    Add Mariner because it loses little functionality when mounted on a ship instead of tracks.

    Flame Tank:
    Add Mariner because it loses little functionality when mounted on a ship instead of tracks.

    Juggernaut
    Add Mariner because it loses little functionality when mounted on a ship instead of tracks.
    Or add Swimming, turning it to a right terrifying amphibious war machine.

    Orc

    Engineer:
    Remove Flash Bang.
    Add +2 melee damage.
    Add +1 defense.

    Golem:
    Replace Defender on Elite with Killing Momentum.

    Cannon:
    Replace Fire Cannon with Fire Grapeshot, dealing 30 physical damage in a large cone.

    #173751

    Zaskow
    Member

    Replace Flash Bang with Flare, which causes 4 fire damage and Inflict Scorching Heat.

    It’s a sort of nerfing. ‘Blind’ is more useful, than ‘Inflict Scorching Heat’.
    Agreed with fire immunity and lava walking.

    Musketeer:
    Add +20% Fire Resistance at Veteran and Elite

    How this can help them to be more useful in battles?

    Add Cave Crawling and Mountaineering.
    Change base cost to 90G/20M

    +1

    Replace Fire Cannon with Fire Plague Cannon, doing 25 physical 5 blight damage and causes Disgusting Stench.

    Flaming of gunpowder while shooting can destroy any diseases and poison. :/
    This idea is more viable in Trebuchets, imho.

    Flame Tank:
    Replace Flame Throwing with Caustic Flames, doing 20 fire 5 blight damage and Inflict Noxious Vulnerability.

    Good idea! Using acids is more fitting for goblins. Only I suggest to give more blight damage (15+10 or 17+8).

    Or add Swimming, turning it to a right terrifying amphibious war machine.

    Ironclads will be useless. :/

    Engineer:
    Remove Flash Bang.
    Add +2 melee damage.
    Add +1 defense.

    Why you hate so much poor orcs? *crying*

    I like idea of acid tanks for goblins very much really. It may fix most issues which we foung while discussing pure poison tanks.

    #173755

    Mythabril
    Member

    Nerfing the grenade on draconian engineers was intentional because they get fire immunity and lava walking. Fire resistance on the musketeers is the normal progress for draconian units.

    While fire may cauterize, I was thinking more of a shell of baked crap around the cannon ball that creates a smear on impact, leaving a cloud of stench over everyone in the line of fire. Though a goblin crapapult may be something to think about.

    The damage ratio for caustic flames can go either way. How much burns and how much burns? Burning acid! I burns! And burns! Aayyy!

    Ironclads cost half that of a Juggernaut and have 40 movement at sea compared to 28. They are still very valid even with swimming human Juggernauts.

    Flash bangs aren’t very orcish, imho, especially compared to beating someone’s head in with a monkey wrench.

    #173757

    Zaskow
    Member

    Nerfing the grenade on draconian engineers was intentional because they get fire immunity and lava walking. Fire resistance on the musketeers is the normal progress for draconian units.

    Fire immunity would be fitting good with draco engis if they have portable flamethrowers or lesser flame breathing. Then dracos have no need for grenades.

    #174787

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    OK, I grabbed all your suggestions, and we picked the ones we felt we could safely implement without causing balance issues that we don’t have time to fix. I’m afraid that only 16 survived, but it was the best I could do this late.

    • Goblin Engineer now has Inflict Noxious Vulnerability, -2 physical ranged damage, -2 fire ranged damage, +5 blight ranged damage. Cost is 72 gold, 13 (was 63 gold, 9 mana)
    • Goblin Phalanx now has Life Stealing. Cost is 135 gold, 27 mana(was 126 gold, 27 mana)
    • Goblin Warbreed now has Disgusting Stench, cost is 153 gold, 36 mana (was 144 gold, 36 mana)
    • Goblin Crusader now has Demolisher
    • Orc Engineer now has Razor Projectiles, cost is 75 gold, 10 mana (was 70 gold, 10 mana)
    • Orc Succubus now has war cry, cost is 175 gold, 30 mana (was 170 gold, 30 mana)
    • Orc Shaman now has black bolts instead of poison bolts.
    • Draconian Engineer now has Inflict Immolation, cost is 80 gold, 10 mana (was 70 gold, 10 mana)
    • Draconian Crusader now has Improved Wall Climbing, cost is 75 gold, 10 mana (was 70 gold, 10 mana)
    • High Elf Musketeteers now have Forest Concealment, cost is 85 gold, 10 mana (was 80 gold, 10 mana)
    • Dwarf Monster Hunter gets a Heavy Crossbow, cost is 88 gold, 22 mana (was 77 gold, 22 mana)
    • Dwarf Bard now has Shoot Heavy Crossbow, cost is 99 gold, 11mana (was 88 gold, 11 mana)
    • Human Warbreed now has Swimming, cost is 170 gold, 40 mana (was 160 gold, 40 mana)
    • Human Exalted now has 8 spirit, 10 physical melee attack (was 3 spirit, 14 physical), cost is 165 gold, 30 mana (was 160 gold, 30 mana)
    • Halfling Mounted Archer now has resistance 11 (was 9), cost is 100 gold, 30 mana (was 100 gold, 20 mana)
    • Halfling Assassin now gets Very Lucky on Gold, instead of Inflict Crippling Wounds.
    • Halfling Crusader now gets Backstab on Gold
    #174823

    Astraflame
    Member

    Ouch dwarf Mh and goblin phalanx, dwarf WL t2 is now beastly and Gob WL wth? I suppose elf is still the best.

    #174828

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    Goblins and High Elves were my favorite races to play Warlord with anyway so “awww yisss”.

    #174888

    Astraflame
    Member

    ^^ You’re fortunate the game favors your preferences. I’d prefer human warlord but find their reliance on slowish siege weapons to kill most of the fun(And refuse to build hu/warbreed for aesthetic reasons) High elf is really superior as Warlord though thanks to their extremely good archers/cavalry.

    #174945

    Gloweye
    Member

    Goblin Warbreed now has Disgusting Stench, cost is 153 gold, 36 mana (was 144 gold, 36 mana)

    Finally smells how he looks!

    (And refuse to build hu/warbreed for aesthetic reasons)

    This basically means it’s your own choice to stay with slowish siege weapons.

    Even that aside, Human Mounted Archers got Spirit Damage at base. Manticores got Devastating Charge. They’re not weak by a long shot, even if you discount the Warbreed.

    #174956

    Astraflame
    Member

    Sure, i never stated it’s weak, just that it isn’t fun. Human is theo/dread for me at least possible necro.

    #174971

    Epaminondas
    Member

    OK, I grabbed all your suggestions, and we picked the ones we felt we could safely implement without causing balance issues that we don’t have time to fix. I’m afraid that only 16 survived, but it was the best I could do this late.

    • Goblin Engineer now has Inflict Noxious Vulnerability, -2 physical ranged damage, -2 fire ranged damage, +5 blight ranged damage. Cost is 72 gold, 13 (was 63 gold, 9 mana)
    • Goblin Phalanx now has Life Stealing. Cost is 135 gold, 27 mana(was 126 gold, 27 mana)
    • Goblin Warbreed now has Disgusting Stench, cost is 153 gold, 36 mana (was 144 gold, 36 mana)
    • Goblin Crusader now has Demolisher
    • Orc Engineer now has Razor Projectiles, cost is 75 gold, 10 mana (was 70 gold, 10 mana)
    • Orc Succubus now has war cry, cost is 175 gold, 30 mana (was 170 gold, 30 mana)
    • Orc Shaman now has black bolts instead of poison bolts.
    • Draconian Engineer now has Inflict Immolation, cost is 80 gold, 10 mana (was 70 gold, 10 mana)
    • Draconian Crusader now has Improved Wall Climbing, cost is 75 gold, 10 mana (was 70 gold, 10 mana)
    • High Elf Musketeteers now have Forest Concealment, cost is 85 gold, 10 mana (was 80 gold, 10 mana)
    • Dwarf Monster Hunter gets a Heavy Crossbow, cost is 88 gold, 22 mana (was 77 gold, 22 mana)
    • Dwarf Bard now has Shoot Heavy Crossbow, cost is 99 gold, 11mana (was 88 gold, 11 mana)
    • Human Warbreed now has Swimming, cost is 170 gold, 40 mana (was 160 gold, 40 mana)
    • Human Exalted now has 8 spirit, 10 physical melee attack (was 3 spirit, 14 physical), cost is 165 gold, 30 mana (was 160 gold, 30 mana)
    • Halfling Mounted Archer now has resistance 11 (was 9), cost is 100 gold, 30 mana (was 100 gold, 20 mana)
    • Halfling Assassin now gets Very Lucky on Gold, instead of Inflict Crippling Wounds.
    • Halfling Crusader now gets Backstab on Gold

    This is a stunning example of dev responsiveness. I am speechless. Perhaps you are too easy – at least for some? 😉

    #175540

    Zaskow
    Member

    OK, I grabbed all your suggestions, and we picked the ones we felt we could safely implement without causing balance issues that we don’t have time to fix. I’m afraid that only 16 survived, but it was the best I could do this late.

    Thanks! I’m glad, that at least the part of my (and forumers here) work was helpful.
    But I hope you may reconsider about some additional no balance breaking abilities here and there.
    For example…
    Draconian Scoundrels – Improved wall climbing. +5-7 gold
    Orc Musketeers – razor projectiles. +5-10 gold
    I think orcs love things like this
    Halfling Hunters – Monster slayer. +5 gold.
    Orc Bards – razor projectiles. +5 gold.

    High Elf Musketeteers now have Forest Concealment, cost is 85 gold, 10 mana (was 80 gold, 10 mana)

    Only after your change I came up with nice upgrade for elves. As a race skilled in archery, elves deserve a bit larger range damage. What do you think about giving to Elven Musketeers +2 ranged strength on veteran, expert and elite, instead 1? On elite Elven Musketeers get 33 damage (+10%, 30 – old version). No game breaking at all, but effectively stands out Elven Musketeers among other.

    #175579

    Gloweye
    Member

    I think orcs love things like this

    They might, but are they able to craft that? And use it with that kind of musket?

    Mind you, their culture puts much importance on melee combat, and Archers are considered whimps by their own mothers.

    #175655

    quo
    Member

    OK, I grabbed all your suggestions, and we picked the ones we felt we could safely implement without causing balance issues that we don’t have time to fix. I’m afraid that only 16 survived, but it was the best I could do this late.

    Thank you so much for implementing these. Your devotion to making the game better really stands out.

    #175657

    quo
    Member

    While I don’t think this is the place to discuss it, I too really dislike the Warbreed unit. What I would love is for some races to get Warbreed (it seems semi-appropriate for Orcs and Goblins I suppose) and the rest to get a Support unit like a “Tactician.”

    The Tactitian would be modeled loosely on the Theocrat Evangelist in terms of stats, but in place of Convert have have a War Cry-like ability (“Rally Troops” or something) that instead of affecting themselves affected all friendly units within X hexes. It might also get a once per battle Heal ability. A third bonus that seems appropriate, if it is possible to achieve, would be for Tactitians to grant additional XP to troops they accompany.

    You could really do some cool stuff with this unit if you wanted to. Like what if it’s shout allowed all units in range to also go instantly back into Guard mode even if they acted this turn? That would force a strategic decision (attack prior to the shout to be able to jump back into Guard mode? Or after the shout to take advantage of +3 damage?)

    I think this would round out the Warlord class much better and make it open to many more thematic varieties.

    #175685

    Zaskow
    Member

    They might, but are they able to craft that? And use it with that kind of musket?
    Mind you, their culture puts much importance on melee combat, and Archers are considered whimps by their own mothers.

    Ok, dreadnought class is not combined good with orcs, just block it for orcs then. 🙂
    Orc dreadnought is able to build golem, cannon, fire tank and, finally Juggernaut. To rasp off bullets in right place is much easier.
    IRL this type of bullets can be fired from same type of firearms on a par with typical types of ammo.

    #176037

    Astraflame
    Member

    The Tactitian would be modeled loosely on the Theocrat Evangelist in terms of stats, but in place of Convert have have a War Cry-like ability (“Rally Troops” or something) that instead of affecting themselves affected all friendly units within X hexes. It might also get a once per battle Heal ability. A third bonus that seems appropriate, if it is possible to achieve, would be for Tactitians to grant additional XP to troops they accompany.

    You could really do some cool stuff with this unit if you wanted to. Like what if it’s shout allowed all units in range to also go instantly back into Guard mode even if they acted this turn? That would force a strategic decision (attack prior to the shout to be able to jump back into Guard mode? Or after the shout to take advantage of +3 damage?)

    That’s an interesting idea, i’d think thematically this unit would fit for the human race as warbreed replacement.

    In my ideal world, i’d like to see some beloved and classic units return for the races that warbreed thematically doesn’t fit for. Warbreed would ideally just remain for orcs, fits them perfectly given their lore/breeding/mutation experiments of the past.

    A few examples;

    High elf, I’d like to see the Iron Maidens come back and she fits perfectly with the war theme of the warlord. High elves don’t really need a wall crushing unit (archers/flyers/phase), armed with shield and stylish lances, lower defence than most t3(including gryphons) but some form of strong magical debuff attack(the original had magic strike) that makes her unique and as different from Elf unicorn riders as possible.

    Halfling, i’d like the Centaur back. As hunters/protectors it fits with the warlord theme. Could lose regrowth/wallcrushing and gain Longbow(Why elf exclusive?) lowered melee damage/hp. Something like 70hp, 15 melee damage and longbow/forestry etc.

    As for other beastlike races that warbreed is better fit for, could still be replaced by some awesome unique units from the past.

    Draconian, the crusher from shadow magic renamed Destroyer or Siege beast/breaker. Similar to the warbreed in function but slower/ with draconian stuff such as inflict immolation possible a new form of improved wall crushing.
    http://aowArray.heavengames.com/aowsm/pics/units/draconians/crusher.gif
    Hydra would also be an awesome replacement, regrowth would fit perfectly for it.

    #176100

    LoQueSeaLoco
    Member

    Halfling, i’d like the Centaur back.

    Yes!

    I kind of thought that there was the chance that the devs would bring them back in a dwelling rather than a class or racial unit.

    @astraflame I believe that your suggestions have been previously suggested as racial T3’s rather than class unit replacements. If the devs where to consider implementing these units, that’s probably the direction they would take IMO.

    #176113

    LoQueSeaLoco
    Member

    @astraflame I believe that your suggestions have been previously suggested as racial T3′s rather than class unit replacements. If the devs where to consider implementing these units, that’s probably the direction they would take IMO.

    Allow me to correct myself, I meant your unit roster was more of a wishlist than actual suggestions, and the following post, in which I’ve added the link below, describes two of them as racial T4’s:

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/tier-4-racial-units/page/3/#post-172348

    -Draconian-

    Tier IV: Hydra<br>
    Lore: A conclave of sorcerers once tried to undo the magic that had transformed the Draconians, hoping to become dragons themselves. Their ritual failed, disastrously, merging the sorcerers into a many-headed draconic abomination… but their spell did effect the draconian race. To this day, one in a hundred draconian eggs hatch into a being with two heads. As this individual ages, their form mutates, becoming more bestial, and more heads grow until they are a full hydra; a monster with the mind of a draconian, a monstrous appearance, and a multitude of snapping heads. The largest draconian cities build lairs for these individuals, courting their presence so that they be unleashed in battle.<br>
    Practice: The Hydra is a monstrous irregular unit that functions as something almost like a dragon. It is Fearsome, its melee attacks to good physical damage (mixed with some blight and fire), and it has the Many Headed special rule, which allows it to retaliate against flanking attacks (combined with Tireless, removing movement point costs for retaliations, and Regeneration, this makes the Hydra exceedingly difficult to mire and kill). It has an additional active ability Spread Attack, which costs three action points and attacks every enemy in a short cone in front of it, doing one attack’s worth of damage without opportunity to retaliate.

    -High Elves-

    Tier IV: Iron Maidens<br>
    Lore: One of the oldest and most esteemed traditions of the wood elves, the iron maidens were the most virtuous of their kind, riding pure unicorns to war against despoilers. After the mending, the order of Iron Maidens underwent something of a reimagining, embracing dark elf converts and tactics. The modern Iron Maidens use the enchanted life-stealing blades of the Executioners, phasing through the battlefield on shadowy mounts mixed from unicorns and darker things by old, occult magic. No longer the pure warrior maidens of old, the modern Iron Maidens reflect high elf martial culture, mixing light and dark into truly deadly warriors.<br>
    Practice: Heavy cavalry with life steal, martial prowess, and phase, Iron Maidens are something of a mix between the old SM Iron Maidens and dark elf executioners. They are hard hitting heavy cavalry with an emphasis on mobility. Their shadowy armor gives them projectile resistance. In addition to phase they have the Shadow Dash special rule, a variation on sprint that has a one turn cooldown and allows the Iron Maidens to move four hexes without suffering attacks of opportunity (unlike sprint, it does not add movement to the unit’s pool but resets it to charging range). Their attacks have a passive chance to weaken enemies, reducing their defense and resistance, and they receive Victory Rush at gold medal level, making them incredibly potent, fast, and hard-hitting tactical cavalry.

    Just to be clear here, I’m not advocating for racial T4’s, rather I’m simply trying to tie in people’s ideas here for the sake of discussion.

    #176159

    llfoso
    Member

    I would love to see inflict immolation become more common among draconians. It could be a more common silver or gold medal reward for draconian units that do at least partial fire damage, or maybe an added effect of dragon ancestry.

    #176570

    haloloki
    Member

    Orc Shaman now has black bolts instead of poison bolts.

    If there could be some frost damage increase in lvl that would be nice, either replacing melee(less favirable as there orcs) or one of the blight lvl ups or just +1 added somewhere

    Also some suggestions for the upcoming frostlings and tigrans (sorry if i get some names wrong of abilities)

    (F) Warbreed, Shatter strike (T) Sprint
    (F) Monster hunter Ice ball(lol the irregulars ability just guessing name)
    (T)Hurl Net, Coup de grace
    (F)phalanx,mounted archer & berserker frost weapons
    (F)phalanx pledge of protection (This im not sure about)(T)Inflict bleeding wounds (While ranking up),sun guard
    (F)Manticore rider frost weapons and shatter strike (T) Inflict bleeding wounds (replace crippling) pounce
    (T) Berserker pounce, Mounted archer throw knives

    Martyrs ice ball, Pledge of protection (might be a nerf as its only heroes and female units) unless u make crusaders women (i think the theocrat needs a female unit anyway) (T) Not sure
    Crusaders, evangelists & exalted (not a fan of it on evangelists as much)frost weapon
    Evangelists (F)Castigate (again i dont female support ability on male support i dont know if it goes with the frostling theme)
    (F)Evangelist Dome of frost (situtional add if they didnt have the previous two id add this but there is still an issue with that only I might have with it going to a male support) (T) Hurl net (more of a unique choice) but more likely to get the spirit/fire support ranged attack
    Crusader (T) already getting sun guard seen in video from explorminate
    Exalted(T) Coup de grace

    Hunter ice ball and maybe shatter strike or frost weapons to compensate for weaker range attack (oh maybe throw harpoon instead of iceball, polearm needed as well then =p)
    Shaman all same ideas for evangelist all the same hang ups i have lol

    (F)Engineer ice ball =p instead of grenade not blunderbuss (T) orcs have razor projectiles so maybe flash bang still but with spirit damage(could also work on humans) like a flash of the light =p
    Musketeer got nothing lol

    (F)Bards throw harpoon (T) Hurl Net,razor projectiles & throwing knives (much higher cost the normal)
    (F)assassin frost weapon (T) Inflict bleeding wound on elite,pounce
    (F) Succubus Dome of frost as a nerf in a way castigate instead of bane fire after dark pact (T) Sprint
    (F) scoundrel Ice ball (T) Hurl Net

    (F) Castigate replaces fairy fire gains inflict chilling
    (T) Bane fire instead as tigrans dont like frost i guess

    Anyway that was alot of writing and no one probably cares in the end lol plus no necro units as even though weve seen them would like to play them first

    #176950

    Astraflame
    Member

    I kind of thought that there was the chance that the devs would bring them back in a dwelling rather than a class or racial unit.

    @astraflame I believe that your suggestions have been previously suggested as racial T3′s rather than class unit replacements. If the devs where to consider implementing these units, that’s probably the direction they would take IMO.

    Well i’m sure they have been suggested before in many different topics/contexts, if devs would add more racial T3s that’d be great since the’re available to everyone. The thing with racial units is that they do not really divert from their race while the Centaur or hydra for example are different species.

    Devs did it in Shadow magic though so would be awesome if they did it again. Still I’d love to see classic units replace the warbreed as i can’t find any other unit in the entire game that needs it more, the unit is just from an aesthetical point of view terrible design for certain none beastlike races.

    #176991

    Ferrin
    Member

    For more diversity, can’t some races get their pikeman from their barracks, and their infantry from the warhall? (Also making said infantry t2 perhaps?) Or a t1 cavalry? I remember the AoW1 pony Riders. I thought making the goblin(and frostling) pikeman a T2 was a nice little difference from the other races.

    I also really like the governance bonus for goblins that they get Tame Trolls. Wouldn’t similar things be possible for the other races, perhaps at different tiers for more variety? (One of them perhaps being a T4 even?) Class diversity, right.

    Arch Druid:
    Draconian Hunter: Could they be given small wings like the chargers for Lesser Flying?
    Goblin Hunter: Darts heroes use, with some added poison damage perhaps? Or Acid Darts?
    Halfling Hunter: Slingshot. (with extra damage or sprint)
    Human Shaman: Water Concealment.

    #177091

    Zaskow
    Member

    Also some suggestions for the upcoming frostlings and tigrans (sorry if i get some names wrong of abilities)

    I got all stats of tigran and frostling units (thanks, beta-tester!) and began to work on it. I had to say, devs had done a lot of work to make new racial class units diverse enough, so only a few suggestions will be made.

    Goblin Hunter: Darts heroes use, with some added poison damage perhaps? Or Acid Darts?
    Halfling Hunter: Slingshot. (with extra damage or sprint)

    Already suggested. Waiting for dev’s respond…

    Human Shaman: Water Concealment.

    Other shamans have better skills. Water Concealment is useful, but situational.

    Draconian Hunter: Could they be given small wings like the chargers for Lesser Flying?

    I’m not against flying archer, but what do devs think about this?

    #177597

    Enforcer
    Member

    As for Engineers, how about giving them another grenade skill, focused on damage and debuffing, that comes either with certain Vet level or empire upgrade (Great Mobilization?)?

    Here is what I came up with:

    1) Draconians: Inciendiary Grenade (5 phys damage, 9 fire damage,inflict immolation and inflict scorching heat).
    2) Goblins: Gas grenade (5 phys damage, 9 blight damage, inflict severely poisoned)
    3) Dwarves: HE grenade (10 phys damage, 10 fire damage, demolisher (?) — basically a high-damaging skill with no debuffs)
    4) Halflings: Concussion grenade (7 phys damage, 7 fire damage, has inflict daze)
    5) Elves: Shock grenade (5 phys damage, 12 shock damage, inflict shocking)
    6) Orcs: Black grenade (8 blight damage, 8 cold damage, weakening)
    7) Humans: Stun grenade (15 phys damage, inflict crippling wounds)
    8) Tigrans: Fragmentation grenade (9 phys damage, 4 fire damage, inflict bleeding wounds)
    9) Frostlings: Freeze grenade (2 phys damage, 5 cold damage, inflict freeze)

    Those abilities have 1 turn cooldown.

    Basically the point of this is me wanting to use engineers as an agressive supporting unit, rather than a cannon/musketeers baby sitter. Givine them Flash Bangs was a great idea and I want it to grow further.

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