Day/Night Cycles

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Day/Night Cycles

This topic contains 21 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  zealot83 9 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2709

    TirAsleen
    Member

    It might add something new to the age of wonders series. Saw this implemented in a couple of other very old games too.

    First noticed this in the fantasy strategy game “Ogre Battle”. Vampire units were very powerful during the night, but totally useless at the day, they rested in coffins and any unit could easliy dispatch them then.

    Same stuff with werwolves. Powerful during the night, just normal human soldiers during the day.

    Apart from these fantasy and horror based ideas, there is the tactical advantage/disadvantage when attacking/defending during the night. Ranged units will see no far throuh the darkness without it be helped by magic or other means. Here the X-Com series tactical battles comes to mind. I am sure most people here played that game.

    Since someone wanted weather in this game, why not have day and night to begin with? I also considered artistical reasions here not just gameplay.

     

     

     

    #2716

    BlaneckW
    Member

    Age of Wonders: Wesnoth

    #2717

    Fimbul
    Member

    even day night cycles can be interessting, i’m against, AoW is of bigger/longer scale (even the turns are counted in days 😉 ) and to balance that isn’t worth the devs time imho. and underground is in someway always night and some races have night vision so they can see the whole distances.

    #2726

    TirAsleen
    Member

    In the Interface, there could be a symbol of a bright sun next to the turn counter. And each turn, the sun will go down until it dissappears and and it gets night, and the moon will fill up until its fullmoon, and so on. A turn should be just a turn not a whole day. 😛

    night vision would be more useful too.

     

    Its not so uncommon to play without UG as UG is often not very appreaciated, especially in those online games.(poor starting positions and poor ug all around)

    #2729

    Griffith
    Member

    Day / night cycle could be cool. Underground wasn’t so rich on resources in AoW:SM, but at least you usually found a way out of there pretty fast. Hopefully TS will keep the UG for AoW3 though, and perhaps make the underground rock “diggable” by default for random maps. 😉

    3rd “level” isnt as important, but if that’s implemented, hopefully it’s better suited for multiplayer than shadow world was.

    #2730

    Why not change the period of a turn? no more one-day turn, but half-day turn, from midday to midnight. In this way we have a day turn and a night turn 🙂

     

    #2731

    BlaneckW
    Member

    This has already been implemented.

    #2732

    NEHZ
    Member

    I strongly dislike a system where environmental conditions switch on every turn. Seasons I would like because those could last several turns. Then you can adapt to the season or plan for it, instead of it becoming an arbritrairy “I only attack on uneven turns” thing.

    #2733

    BlaneckW
    Member

    This has already been implemented.  The AOW3 universe has been revealed as having three suns and sixteen moons, which often block the latter out.

    #2737

    Fimbul
    Member

    After thinking over, i really have to say don’t do it! it’s just annoying like hell if your stack is 50% of the time useless. you need to rely on your units. you won’t use such a unit much which is nearly useless over day or night. think about a war between night benefited against day benefited. they will always run back and forth. “uh, i can’t reach them by night but they will surely kill me if they catch me by day. so retreat and hoping to catch them in two turns!”

    in AoWSM was the shadow plane already a pain in the ass, without demons, syrons or draconians at hand were you quite f***** up. the benefits of normal environments in the previous AoWs was quite minimal (except shadow plane), and this is in my opinion good, so you are able to deal with it and it doesn’t “break” the game. if such things have to much influence, it will be like switching on shadow sickness every second turn. especially fighting against the opposite benefiters.

    #2738

    Merkraad
    Member

    Interesting idea, although I see it overcomplicating the game in an unecessary way.

    I think it could be implemented by simply having units such as vampires/werewolves get a bonus when fighting underground.

    Having a vampire Unit behaving as simply not being able to fight during the day creates in my opinion an ‘over specific’ situation that I think does not have a place in an AoW game.

    With that sort of reasoning, ‘alive’ races will sleep during the night while Undead could in theory work 24/7; so basically Undeads would produce (slave zombies!), research magic (liches) 2x as fast as normal races.

    It is actually ‘realistic’ if a fantasy world can be called that, but there would be balance issues and the creation of entire subsequent micro-situations. Alive races being able to be surprised at night (units sleeping), forced marching/fighting (alive races skipping sleep during a war campaign, accruing stat penalties henceforth) and so on.

    #2740

    BlaneckW
    Member

    I do not think there was any chance of them implementing it anyway.

    #2745

    TirAsleen
    Member

    Maybe its too complex for the aow series, but as i mentioned: ogre battle was a fairly simple game and it worked there. How else add new stratetic options to the new aow incarnation? The option to behave the ug as “night” might work, but then i hope ug start position wouldn’t be as horrible as in aow:sm. 🙂

    Anyways i think the devs have allready good plans and work on them, just wanted to discuss the topic for the sake of discussing it. Well, the variation of power increasements/decreasements of Vampires and Lycantrophy Creatures could be achieved with just darkness and holy light spells, too.

    Besides i did consider it for visuals only, too. I mean, my old friend Merkraad, as you are an artist, do you know how cool something can look like, if it burns and its night? 🙂

    #2748

    BlaneckW
    Member

    Ogre was a tactical game.  AOW is a strategy game that includes tactical battles.

    #2758

    TirAsleen
    Member

    Ogre was a tactical game. AOW is a strategy game that includes tactical battles.

    I suppose a lot of the online players would disagree with this. AoW is a game about tactical Combat with some global stuff as lackluster. Just look how improved tactical combat is, compared to all these other tbs games. Compare tactical combat with homm3 or civ series.

    Tactical Combat is the focused, detailed and fun part of this game latest released incarnation(aow:sm). And i like it that way. So, if something really needs to get more complex and improved its the strategy and variation happen on the global map.

    In the buildings thread, i made it clear, that most buildings are just generic and add absolutely nothing to the gameplay except wasting turns on it without having any fun/challenge whatsoever, the only real exceptions are the racial building adding unique units and bonuses. If this gets polished and new game mechanics added for the veterans to master, aow3 will be really a great game and masterpiece.

    #2759

    Red Key
    Member

    No! Keep this out of Age of Wonders! This only leads to two possibilities: 1) The game slows down because your army must wait until day/night to advance, and must seek defensive positions when it is not day/night. 2) The effects of day/night aren’t powerful enough to be more than a minor annoyance so you ignore them. Also AoW already has the underground to give advantages to those with night vision.

    #2760

    TirAsleen
    Member

    well, should everything stay the same then? I did not read a lot about other game conceptions to make the game more complex. I would like to raise the complexity of this game by adding new game mechanics, but without bogging down the game. I want rather a faster game pace as in aow:sm, too.

    And i said it before at least for the visuals i would like to see this.

    Anyways some examples on castle sieges during the night and stormy weather too, as it makes sense how should archers hit the attacker under such conditions:

    http://www.castlesmashinggames.com/famous-castle-sieges/

    #2762

    Red Key
    Member

    well, should everything stay the same then?

    I think many would be happy if this game was the same besides updated graphics and AI. I would be fine with that. I see no need to make the game more complex except when it comes to buildings as your other thread talks about. More unique buildings, “Wonder” buildings, or stronger effects from buildings would be great. I thought the weather idea in another thread was good because it would only affect part of the map and add some randomness. However, day and night would affect the entire map and slow the entire game down if it was too strong. If day/night was too weak then it would just be ignored most of the time, and thus there would be no reason to include it. Also in reference to castle sieges, realistic does not always equal fun.

    #2764

    What if night/day happened just during battles?

    #2795

    Edi
    Member

    One of the things that I specifically did not like in AoW2 and AoW:SM compared to AoW2 was the much more complex city building system, which took focus away from many areas that were more important in AoW1 and increased both the need for micromanagement and the time it took to get anywhere.

    The addition of mana producing buildings (several per single city)  and the ability to build essentially as many cities as you could fit on the map (provided you could defend them all) made magic nodes almost entirely superfluous, while in the first game they were very important. The increased building tree shifted the focus of the game much more to city building instead of fighting a war in a strategy game. Sure, you needed to take out enemies and conquer their cities, but the first order of business was always getting the infrastructure up and running so you could get increased gold and mana income.

    I liked the simple upgrade mechanics in the first game, because this cut out a lot of the micromanagement and allowed the player to proceed directly to the war fighting phase and you needed to expand in order to keep income ahead of army upkeep. The AI also did not have as many choices to make, so it could crank out units by the ton and throw them at you, which made even SP games challenging.

    The one turn = one day mechanic was always a fairly good one, though it could just as easily have been one turn = one week or one turn = one month (okay, this could have been something of a stretch).  Adding a day/night cycle will either shorten the turn interval or otherwise add even more complexity and even more need for micromanagement into the game for questionable gains.

    An easier way to do something like that would be to make locations have intrinsic effects that amount to the same thing. Such as it being dark in old underground crypts and/or in the underground and giving bonuses and penalties to units according to what kind of vision they have. If they have only night vision, bonuses in the dark, penalties above ground or otherwise lit areas. If day vision, bonuses in daylight, penalties in the dark (twilight neutral for both).

    Then you have units that do not exactly need vision to do whatever it is they do, like bats (who use echo location) or elementals or spirits who do not have eyes as such but use life sensing or soul sensing or spirit sensing or whatever and thus are not affected by the presence or lack of light sources.

    This also opens up an interesting tactical consideration in the form of spells that alter battlefield conditions (such as Veil of Darkness to penalize daylight units and give bonuses to night units, or Rays of the Rising Sun for the opposite or Twilight to neutralize both).

    This would allow light conditions or day/night mechanics into the game without a need to implement massive changes to the turn structure or the global map and increasing options for tactical combat. It would not significantly increase micromanagement beyond the need to make sure you have mixed performance stacks so you don’t get flattened by unfavorable conditions.

    The way night vision is implemented in Dominions is as a percentage score (that reduces penalties for darkness by the percent value)  and a blind attribute for units that have no need of vision. Something like this could be the least amount of work for the greatest amount of relative gain.

    #2796

    Brother JO
    Member

     

    The addition of mana producing buildings (several per single city)  and the ability to build essentially as many cities as you could fit on the map (provided you could defend them all) made magic nodes almost entirely superfluous, while in the first game they were very important.

    I agree with this.I remember having 25k mana(300 mana income every turn :S:S ) and could not use all of them at all.It should not be normal that mana should stack that much.In some maps players even created an event to get rid of that much mana.They know that you just can’t use them all.I think it should be harder to get high mana income.

    An easier way to do something like that would be to make locations have intrinsic effects that amount to the same thing. Such as it being dark in old underground crypts and/or in the underground and giving bonuses and penalties to units according to what kind of vision they have. If they have only night vision, bonuses in the dark, penalties above ground or otherwise lit areas. If day vision, bonuses in daylight, penalties in the dark (twilight neutral for both).

    I don’t think that is a good idea.Everybody hated shadow sickness in shadow world and having something like that in underground and surface would annoy most players.

    About Day/Night mechanic: I agree that it can slow down the game.Having retreating at day and attacking at night would be annoying.

    #6762

    zealot83
    Member

    I agree to sounds annoying.

Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.