Dev Journal: Bone Collector and Deathbringer Units!

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: Bone Collector and Deathbringer Units!

This topic contains 179 replies, has 72 voices, and was last updated by  chrysophylax páuperem 7 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 61 through 90 (of 180 total)
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  • #131126

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Can I suggest something…<br>
    Ghoul giants: this

    Don’t quote me on this but I think that Ghoulification only works on the Humanoid Player Races.

    (Nice Shingeki no Kyojin reference though)

    #131127

    vormav78
    Member

    I’m concerned the bone collector ability to consume corpses will become way too situational. If you have the choice to attack/defend or consume a corpse, you’d always pick attacking/defending first.

    Perhaps make it so consuming corpse puts the unit in defensive stance or let it consume passively while walking?

    #131130

    Great job as usual, I kind of miss a vampire type for now, but I am not in the business for complaining about creative-stylish choices. I still believe vampires are an elite anyway. They are always nobleman in the collective unconscious, so what I really hope for, is a vampire mutation for heroes.

    A (powerful) spell that could change heroes (both friend allied or even enemy heroes why not?) into vampires. The affliction should not be reversible.

    While being powerful, the vampire hero should lower terribly the morale of living units that fight along with him, and while he could be weakened\wounded by any means the last hit point could only be taken out through magical/holy means (maybe fire too, but then again too many units can use fire).

    By casting that affliction on a hero that character would have to be used in a very specific way, so it could become difficult to use for a theocrat who would have problems regrouping him with his regular units… blah blah blah… anyways great job as usual 🙂

    #131133

    If there is a Dread Reaper then he totally needs Invoke Death as a (once per battle?) touch attack – this was in AoW1 and gave the Reaper a chance to instantly kill a unit.

    This being the very avatar of death, it is fitting ;).

    I would say floating, lifestealing, and cause fear, and various immunities (blight immuity, extra spirit weakness?), would be obvious choices.

    Incorporeal fits, but you could say that such a large being (Horned God size) wouldn’t be physically resistant, it would just have a tonne of hp and defence :).

    As a class, these Undead units are going to have issues regenerating, which is good, and a very powerful way to balance them out, because healing in battle via collecting bones and also being able to recruit large numbers of troops post battle via curse/ghoul both sound like powerful abilities.

    #131137

    Mardagg
    Member

    +1 to Dread Reaper as T4.

    Bone collector is a great fit for T3 imo,Deathbringer for T2 or T3.

    I love how the Necromancer class is shaping up!

    #131142

    RMZ1989
    Member

    Yeah, Bone Collectors definitely should be T3 with how tanky they should be(even though we don’t really know their stats), they mostly resembles counterparts of Golems and Warbreeds from other classes.

    Deathbringer I think should be T3 at least. If we have her at T2 we might get a problem of balancing Necromancer with ton of Ghouls he will be able to produce just from clearing neutral camps in the early game with Deathbringers.

    Amazing stuff btw, I really like how you kind of introduced old units(Vampire and Bone Horror) with a twist. They also have a lot better abilities.

    Really looking forward to play Necromancer just from the info I have here with all these units, let alone that we will see a ton of spells, abilities, special effects and even more units available later. 🙂

    #131151

    Deemonspawn
    Member

    Someone did wonder if dragons could be ghoulified into bone dragons, so I thought that he would be an amazing ghoul giant. I was just posting what instantly popped into my head.

    #131157

    AZJaguar
    Member

    I love the idea that they are getting their own unique units instead of everything just looking like a transformed other race.

    The Bone Collector does seem a bit strange in the animation. Picture looked awesome. As for the Dragon skull head, I agree with the others that dragons are too rare to be used that way. Maybe tweak it a bit so that it is random bones put together that resembles a dragon’s skull maybe? Also in the animated pic it looks more like a decorator crab that is just attaching bones to its shell than an actual made out of bones feeling.

    As for the collecting of the bones. I suggest it would be better if it gets healed with every time it kills an enemy. (not life steal, but has to kill off the unit for the heal, the tier level it kills determines its heal bonus. ex. tier one gives +10, tier two gives +20, …) No one wants a powerhouse to waste a turn having to use a separate function for such.

    Deathbringers, Love them. Looks and sounds great. The cursing for undead after a won battle is a great idea. Hate seeing people use such during a battle to save their own units and use yours as fodder to attack your remaining units.. Give it more of a feeling of having to get past the rigor mortise feeling where the corpse is to stiff to even move a muscle.

    Mentioned before as a domain spell but I think it better to have a combat spell that lasts till end of turn and randomly curses one enemy unit per turn vs. Spell resistance to aid the necromancer from having to curse them with units only.

    Domain spell idea, Cast upon target friendly undead converted city, each time a unit dies within its domain it gets +100 population. And have it as a tier 1/2 spell.

    As for the Reaper. Agree it needs to make its way back. But I would suggest as a powerful Summon spell.

    Also are the undead units considered heretics? And if so will they have a bonus to kill devout units? This will give a greater feel of opposites to the theocrat class. (Which I know is a re-inventing the Archon and undead race conflicts from the other two AoW) but that was always a fun conflict in my view point. (I was disappointed seeing that Archons are now the Undead. What happened?)

    Not necessarily need in this DLC but maybe the next. Frostlings, I loved them. I loved the cold freezing race that froze the lands in snow and ice. I even made a Human Sorc that mastered in Air to give such a feeling, but is not all there. My favorite mythical creature is the Yuki-Onna (Snow Woman) So I want them back. :'(

    #131161

    I was disappointed seeing that Archons are now the Undead. What happened?

    I *think8 what happened is that the Archons packed up and left after ShadowMagic, and the undead Archons you see are the corpses they left behind. *Someone* has managed to reanimate these, but for what purpose? 😉

    #131162

    llfoso
    Member

    Can I just say I am so incredibly stoked by the direction these unit designs are heading? It’s awesome.

    Love the fiddler crab design of the bone thing.

    Liking the deathbringer too…although I’m not sure about that hat 😀 It’s very “Maleficent.”

    Just a question; it looks like all the necromancer’s class units are undead. I’m not sure that’s necessary… why can’t the reanimator and the deathbringer be living (at least to start)?

    I’m dying with anticipation to see the T4. I’m also hoping for a mid-tier summoned unit (Poltergeist?). Fingers crossed.

    #131163

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>AZJaguar wrote:</div>
    I was disappointed seeing that Archons are now the Undead. What happened?

    I *think8 what happened is that the Archons packed up and left after ShadowMagic, and the undead Archons you see are the corpses they left behind. *Someone* has managed to reanimate these, but for what purpose? ;)

    The impression I got from the various Archon Undead units in the game is that the Archons left behind started worshipping an Ancestor-venerating cult called (or mediated by?) something/someone called the/a Shadai, and it corrupted them. I believe the Archon Dwellings are actually their ancient, sealed cities where the Ancestor/Shadai worship ran amok.

    #131166

    Gloweye
    Member

    Also are the undead units considered heretics? And if so will they have a bonus to kill devout units? This will give a greater feel of opposites to the theocrat class. (Which I know is a re-inventing the Archon and undead race conflicts from the other two AoW) but that was always a fun conflict in my view point. (I was disappointed seeing that Archons are now the Undead. What happened?)

    could be better – give them (un)holy champion on a regular basis/hero ability. Works miracles vs devout units.

    #131183

    LordTheRon
    Member

    Oh my I bet we’ll see a lot of Necro games when this comes out. I’m dying (no pun intended) to play this next xpack. The bone collector looks totally awesome.

    #131235

    Draxynnic
    Member

    The impression I got from the various Archon Undead units in the game is that the Archons left behind started worshipping an Ancestor-venerating cult called (or mediated by?) something/someone called the/a Shadai, and it corrupted them. I believe the Archon Dwellings are actually their ancient, sealed cities where the Ancestor/Shadai worship ran amok.

    From memory, the in-game text is ambiguous – it could have been something that infected left-behind archon populations, or it could be that someone moved in and animated the bodies.

    It’s worth mentioning that ‘Shadai’ is also a term used to refer to the shrines (Crimson Destroyer etc) which are part of the Shadowborn’s plotting. So whatever created the archon revenants seems to be tied up in the main story – we just haven’t seen exactly how yet.

    #131243

    gracious11
    Member

    good job!

    #131245

    Chikanuk
    Member

    I CAME =D

    #131255

    MrDias
    Member

    First, let me say, that it’s a most beautiful reincarnation of Bone Horror I could’ve ever hoped for. Great job, guys!
    But one thing irks me as a result: It seems that, while Necro brings a bunch of mechanics, other classes begin to look rather shallow by comparison.
    I mean, what Necro currently has that is unique:
    a) Abiltiy to transform defeated units into your units
    b) Units that respawn on battlefield
    c) Whole Ghoulish towns mechanic

    Other classes: Well, Dreadnought is really unique, no doubt abot that,
    Sorcerer has apprentices, Druid and Sorc have pretty powerful summons – but other classes, to me, seem to bring way less uniqueness and to have less “special” about them now. Are there any plans to also add new features to existing classes?

    #131260

    Taykor
    Member

    other classes, to me, seem to bring way less uniqueness and to have less “special” about them now

    And Rogues have tons of concealment and means to destroy enemies’ economics. Warlords have a cheap, numerous and strong army (which is not too exciting for me too, but this is special in comparison).

    #131265

    Cerber_ok
    Member

    too chaotic for a nonunique unit
    if you know what I mean

    Attachments:
    #131272

    hilfazer
    Member

    I’m just curious if Undying also works as Resurgence.

    I’m pretty sure it does. It makes a lot of sense just like Regrowth also working as Regeneration.

    #131279

    Hellspirit
    Member

    Death Reaper ftw!Btw,can we get a call hero spell,or a Heroes Inn building so AI doesn’t steal our heroes xd?I mean in this expansion,i mean,then this game would be perfect xd.

    #131323

    terrahero
    Member

    Hopefully the Deathbringer is tier3. I say this because, as Lenart Sas stated, it wont be a terribly great combat unit as an offset to the Ghoul plague it inflicts, phasing and backstabbing.
    If its tier2, and then reduced combat stats, it wont be a very durable unit at all. And even in midgame it will already be struggling in a direct fight with tier2 units, let alone what tier3 and tier4 units do to it.

    It might make this completely badass looking unit come across considerably more mundane when it can more easily substain significant damage, even from non-melee units, on retaliation.
    And being introduced at a time, and a cost, that makes them more “spammable” and early-tech.

    And i am also curious how Ghouling is going to impact Resurgence. As others before me have pointed out.
    It could be a simple case of Resurgence takes presedence, and a unit is considered fine.

    Now i would like it if it was more interesting than that. For example, Ghouling counters Resurgence. And a unit that is infected and killed, cannot Resurge anymore. And i understand that would be a bit powerful.
    Or perhaps a resurged unit does come back to life, but as a Ghoul under control of its original leader. To go back a little bit to the original idea, but instead of all units getting Ghouled, just units with Resurgence can get effected like this.

    #131325

    NuMetal
    Member

    The Bone Collector is what i believed the Bone Horror would be. I think of it as Bone Horror mkII. My guess, also a tier3 unit just like the Bone Horror was.

    Yeah, I think so too.

    A remark about the bone horror: excellent concept but I think the 2nd little a arm is too small. If you don’t look closely you read the creature as some kind of bone dragon that walks funny. The crab features would be enhanced if the little arm would be longer and the unit therefor more symmetrical.

    I actually really liked that. Haven’t you seen one of these crab types where the one arm/claw really is much much much bigger than the other?
    Example: http://www.animalstown.com/animals/f/fiddler-crab/wallpapers/fiddler-crab-wallpaper-Array.jpg or http://web.fscj.edu/David.Byres/fiddler/ucaArray.jpg or just google “Fiddler Crab”

    I personally loved the animation! Much cooler than anything I had imagined for the Bone Horror… 🙂

    but other classes, to me, seem to bring way less uniqueness and to have less “special” about them now.

    To you it might seem that way, but it’s not really the case. All the classes are very distinct and unique and even the ones that appear to be less “special” (Rogue/Warlord) will not seem that way anymore, once you’ve actually spend some time playing them. Especially the Rogue… <3

    so AI doesn’t steal our heroes

    How does the AI steal our heroes?! :O

    #131329

    Arnout
    Keymaster

    Hopefully the Deathbringer is tier3.

    Yes it is!

    As for the Reaper. Agree it needs to make its way back. But I would suggest as a powerful Summon spell.

    I agree as well! And it will return as the ultimate Necromancer T4 unit.

    If there is a Dread Reaper then he totally needs Invoke Death as a (once per battle?) touch attack – this was in AoW1 and gave the Reaper a chance to instantly kill a unit.

    This being the very avatar of death, it is fitting ;) .

    Also agree 🙂

    #131332

    Fenraellis
    Member

    AZJaguar wrote:

    As for the Reaper. Agree it needs to make its way back. But I would suggest as a powerful Summon spell.

    I agree as well! And it will return as the ultimate Necromancer T4 unit.

    BLOODYBATTLEBRAIN wrote:

    If there is a Dread Reaper then he totally needs Invoke Death as a (once per battle?) touch attack – this was in AoW1 and gave the Reaper a chance to instantly kill a unit.

    This being the very avatar of death, it is fitting 😉 .

    Also agree 🙂

    Yay…!

    I wonder how close it will be to the idea I proposed so long ago for the Dread Reaper/Avatar of Death/whatever-reasonably-alignment-neutral-naming-scheme, or at least in particular for the Invoke Death ability.

    #131339

    NuMetal
    Member

    AZJaguar wrote:
    As for the Reaper. Agree it needs to make its way back. But I would suggest as a powerful Summon spell.
    I agree as well! And it will return as the ultimate Necromancer T4 unit.

    BLOODYBATTLEBRAIN wrote:
    If there is a Dread Reaper then he totally needs Invoke Death as a (once per battle?) touch attack – this was in AoW1 and gave the Reaper a chance to instantly kill a unit.

    This being the very avatar of death, it is fitting .


    Also agree

    This is perfect! All my dreams coming true… <3

    #131340

    Arnout
    Keymaster

    Any race news? ;)

    Soon (hopefully) 🙂

    Now does Undying work like Resurgence, is what i was wondering. If a unit dies, does it mean we should stall the fight for it to come back to (un)life? Or will it come back upon victory aswell?

    Yes, Undying unit also have Resurgence. So its quite a powerful ability!

    #131343

    Jordos
    Member

    They are both very nice, but i find the Bone collector OP already. Player will make a lote so tht the amount of round will be longer. Is it possible to give them some weakness in there armor.
    The concept of the bone collector looks like a work of nature finest bugs who collectes death ants bodies to be undecteable in a ant nest.
    Nice thinking guys!!

    #131345

    terrahero
    Member

    Yes, Undying unit also have Resurgence. So its quite a powerful ability!

    Thats quite a beastly skill indeed. Any clue you might want to share on ow Resurgence deals with getting Ghouled?

    They are both very nice, but i find the Bone collector OP already. Player will make a lote so tht the amount of round will be longer. Is it possible to give them some weakness in there armor.<br>

    You might have a point, its difficult to tell as we dont know what stats the Bone Collector has, it might not actually be to strong (a stat deficit) to compensate for the Undying ability. Meaning its easier to die in the first place.
    Also important is at how much health a unit with Undying comes back. If it comes back with just 20% health or 80%, is a big difference. And what about actions? Does a unit with Undying get to act when it comes back, or (as i suspect) will the reanimation take a turn aswell?
    And will it maintain any buffs it has accumulated, or not?

    But i do also believe that the strength of the Bone Collector is in drawn out, scrappy fights, preferably with a lot of units to become potential corpses for buffing. Fortunatly there are plenty of ways to easily limit this if the need should arrise.

    #131348

    Gloweye
    Member

    Also important is at how much health a unit with Undying comes back. If it comes back with just 20% health or 80%, is a big difference. And what about actions? Does a unit with Undying get to act when it comes back, or (as i suspect) will the reanimation take a turn aswell?
    And will it maintain any buffs it has accumulated, or not?

    I guess it will be 35%, just like Resurgence. Actions, not so sure. Maybe just the one Action Point?

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