Dev Journal: Bone Collector and Deathbringer Units!

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: Bone Collector and Deathbringer Units!

This topic contains 179 replies, has 72 voices, and was last updated by  chrysophylax páuperem 7 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 121 through 150 (of 180 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #131623

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I guess there’s our answer. Reaper is making a come-back, and so is its iconic Invoke Death.

    Based on what you’ve said i assume its a spirit based attack with a power of 10, hence the 55% against a 9resistance tier1.<br>
    Thing is, higher tier units dont gain that much more resistance. A tier4 Manticore rider for example only has 12resistance. So thats still going to be a 40% chance to insta-kill with Invoke Death, 45% for Orcs. And even if its leveld, it gains only 1 extra resistance.<br>
    And tier3 units have resistances as low as 10 from what i could quickly see. For example, the War Breed. An Orc Warbreed is as low as 9. Thats 55% chance to instantly kill a tanky tier3.<br>
    Even the apex tier4′s such as Giants and Dragons usually stick around 12 resistance, Stone Giant being 11 and Fire Dragon 13.

    As there are a lot of units well protected or outright excluded from getting afflicted by Invoke Death, such as atleast half of the Theocrat units, every Machine and Elemental. I agree that overall its probably not overpowered, as there are a lot of units or things you could do to counter this.

    And thats what i so strongly dislike about Invoke Death. I see three possibilities. Either its useless as it cannot affect the unit you want to attack. Some classes have fairly little to fear from the Reaper, such as the Dreadnought or the Theocrat.<br>
    Or its meaningless as the unit is so weak, why roll the dice when you can just attack it and kill it easily?<br>
    Or its very effective, and with a fairly high chance you will be instantly killing tier3′s and tier4′s.<br>
    As even against some tier4′s it can have 40% or higher chance to work, and tier3′s in the excess of 50% for some. An Archdruid has no worries that his tier4 gets Invoked, but a Orc Warlord will lose almost 1 in 2 Manticore Riders to Invoke death.

    With these limitations, where its worth it and actually works, i fear it makes for a fairly restricted ability. I rarely used Invoke Death in AoW1, as there werent that many situations where it worked and offered a good potential yield.<br>
    Compared to abilities like Call Lightning, Lightning Breath, Divine Vengeance, Broadside, which all are less drasticly gamechanging but more applicable across the board.

    You hit every concern I have. The ability really brings nothing to the table, but has potential to piss people off only.

    #131626

    Epaminondas
    Member

    AGING: special attack against resistance, that reduces a units HPs by a percentage based on resistance check (50% being standard). A unit that was at 80/100, that suffered 50% Aging would be left at 40/50. Healing would work insofar, that if 40/50 was now healed for 15 points, it was at 55/55. The attack would also reduce defense, resistance and damage.<br>
    No immunities.

    A fantastic idea – would the effect be permanent or just for battle duration?

    #131629

    Epaminondas
    Member

    From a game design point of view, the Instant Kill ability on a Death-themed T4 would have to be a passive addition to the attack – like Bleeding Wounds or Fearsome. Since Fearsome is rather powerful when it hits, and Lucky is in play as well, I wouldn’t have a problem with such an ability, if the numbers were right – but in reality in a computer game the RNG process is something I really distrust. Still, Lucky isn’t that different…

    You are a veritable fountain of sharp insights today – I agree wholeheartedly again! 😉

    #131640

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    But a T4 with Instant Kill? As a T4 you can kill T1 and T2 anyway. That basically leaves T3s and T4s as prime target, but since a lot of units are immune, with chances being probably below 50%, I would consider it a useless ability, because I don’t think the possible gain justifies the probable waste of the action. The only time that makes sense is when you have only 1 action left.

    If the Reaper fails that 35%(13 Res for a non-Orc Manticore Rider without Blood Brothers protection, or 14 for non-Orc lead by a Theo/Sorc/Dread/Druid…Necro?) or even 30%, or less, from Dwarf/Elf, or party Spirit Protection boosts that are not Blood Brothers… Anyway, ignoring the potential sub 30% chance from other methods, from a non-guarding Manticore Rider.
    If the Reaper fails, then it’s pretty much a guarantee that it will get ripped to shreds by the Warlord’s units(presuming comparable armies) now that it ended its turn by using a Touch attack.

    Then what’s the point of the ability? As you say, a T4 unit like Dread Reaper should kill a T1 in one combat round: So why risk the ability failing? It would make sense to simply do a normal attack.

    I think all of these arguments were reasons why, as Lennart stated, invoke death is currently being tested as a short range ability. It seems to me that you can use the invoke death ability, while still keeping your Reaper more or less out of harm’s way.
    What I’m wondering is whether it is a once per battle thing or perhaps an ability with a cooldown period.

    #131642

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I think all of these arguments were reasons why, as Lennart stated, invoke death is currently being tested as a short range ability. It seems to me that you can use the invoke death ability, while still keeping your Reaper more or less out of harm’s way.<br>
    What I’m wondering is whether it is a once per battle thing or perhaps an ability with a cooldown period.

    Good point: We all over-looked the ranged ability part.

    Obviously then I am even more alarmed; also I think victims of Disintegrate or Death Touch ought to be resurrectable or resurge-able. That would take the sting off the complaints.

    #131643

    Perhaps having the “aging” max hp reduction as the “spell was resisted” effect (usually resist take away some movement points) would make the ability more useful. Still, joker has brought up a lot of good points. Having an ability that is useless against 2-3 other classes as the centerpoint of your top tier unit is pretty horrible, and if it is made more powerful against the other classes to compensate…sucks to be playing them.

    Joker’s big post on reasoning and alternate ideas is pretty fantastic though.

    #131648

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jolly Joker wrote:</div>
    AGING: special attack against resistance, that reduces a units HPs by a percentage based on resistance check (50% being standard). A unit that was at 80/100, that suffered 50% Aging would be left at 40/50. Healing would work insofar, that if 40/50 was now healed for 15 points, it was at 55/55. The attack would also reduce defense, resistance and damage.<br><br>
    No immunities.

    A fantastic idea – would the effect be permanent or just for battle duration?

    With Healing/Regeneration working between turns, it could last – or it could not; both is possible. 🙂

    By the way, thanks for all the flowers, people. The game is inspiring me. 😉

    #131649

    nightykatze
    Member

    Epaminondas wrote:
    Any race news?
    Soon (hopefully)

    i can haz tigrans ? (and/or frostlings would be cool too)

    #131650

    Epaminondas
    Member

    With Healing/Regeneration working between turns, it could last – or it could not; both is possible. :)

    No way should this last beyond the battle! 😉

    #131658

    terrahero
    Member

    I’d personally still like to see the Reaper play into the fancy new Ghouling mechanic.
    Invoke Death could instead inflict damage, and i’d go with a damage type that is more inclusive, its weird that an epic fire breathing dragon is vulnerable to invoke death, and a unicorn is not.

    Invoke Death could inflict a set amount of damage, regardless of resistances to be fairly inclusive, excluded could be units who dont have a soul. So, Machines and Goblins 😉

    If this damage does not kill the target it gets inflicted with a debuff. Could be anything existent, such as Spirit Breaking or something new as the Aging suggested earlier.
    If it does kill the target with this damage, it will rise as a Ghoul after battle and it will power the Reaper who, as it “feeds” on the soul.

    Now we have a unique ability with a strategic aspect, do i use it deliberately early for its debuff this powerful enemy unit so its easier to kill, or do i wait till its low and try to get a new powerful unit if i win. Or alternatively, do i invoke death this weaker unit, kill it so i gain a weaker unit if i win, and buff up my Reaper to make him stronger right now.

    #131680

    Zorrino
    Member

    I was just wondering if there would be a way to make a change in the battle system if it is at all possible. Now I’m not saying change it completely, but rather add in an additional option to the menu before you start a game, kinda like not being able to see the other combats in multiplayer option. So my idea for a new combat system would be a plan base combat, meaning that you plan out your movement and attacks etc, before you end your turn for that combat round. In a way it will all be simulated all at once after ending your combat round but still has that turn base feeling all at the same time, I wonder if that will make combat go by faster or slower? In any case I think it will add in an all new game play style to this already great great game to experience with. What do you say guys wanna option to play a simultaneous/turn base combat experience? I would =D It would certainly add in a all new game play strategy to this game in my opinion =D

    #131682

    Zorrino
    Member

    Some examples of the simulated combat would be, Intercept target for melee units, so when the turn is processing who ever was going to engaged in melee combat they would follow a certain path closest to their target. Focus on target for range units, so if the target were to move away from a AoE range attack it would have a percentage chance to hit the target or hit anywhere in between and do damage to who ever or what ever it hits. For Leader/Heroes when they cast magic I think wouldn’t need a percentage chance or be last to attack, instead would be the first to do damage and still be able to move since they are on a mount at all times anyway, =D So I hope these ideas will be implemented into the game somehow sometime, cause I think it will add in a new realm of possibility for the game. =D

    P.S. They would all probably need some kind of initiative to decide who swings first, or maybe by who gets there first and is waiting for the other to engaged with, or maybe by their tier stats I don’t know but I’m sure others will have better ideas. Hope to hear more about this later on =D

    #131691

    Gloweye
    Member

    Ok, then it’s more acceptable, since I only play Theocrat and Warlord, and if I expand my class usage, it will likely be Dreadnought.

    So it’s acceptable cause your pet classes are immune? that probably the worst measure of (un)acceptable I’ve ever heard.

    Arnout wrote:
    I don’t think its overpowered. A T4 hard hitter unit kills these T1 units usually also in one or 2 attacks.
    Then what’s the point of the ability? As you say, a T4 unit like Dread Reaper should kill a T1 in one combat round: So why risk the ability failing? It would make sense to simply do a normal attack.

    I just don’t get it.

    Well, you can use it on higher Tier units…

    ….excluded could be units who dont have a soul. So, Machines and Goblins 😉

    Dwarves.

    On a serious note, I bet the fail effect of Invoke Death will be something with Spirit Damage. However, I do agree there is a very high % of higher Tier units that are Spirit Immune, which would really lessen the use.

    How about having Invoke Death just check against plain Resistance? Machines etc. could always be otherwise excluded, and this would keep the ability usefull. Also, maybe raise the chance off success the lower the Enemy’s Morale is? So something like (morale/20)*(base chance), so at max morale, a 10 Res unit would have a 30% chance to die, and at min morale, a 70% chance to die. I really like scaling abilities with morale, one of the possibilities being the conversion abilities(Unhappy soldiers may be Seduced easier…)

    #131704

    That’s correct. It’s a spirit attack and useless against Machines, Undead and Elementals. Units with Strong Will (e.g. 100% Spirit Protection) are also immune. It currently has about 55% change to kill a T1 unit (with an average Res of 9). The attack strength is of course something that still needs to be finely balanced.

    I don’t think its overpowered. A T4 hard hitter unit kills these T1 units usually also in one or 2 attacks.

    And let us not forget spirit shield and spirit of the lands (now at 40% protection). So some champion low tier unit with 11 resistance (including the extra resistance upgrade) with this active will have only an 18% or so death rate (assuming 10 strength vs 11 resistance and 40% protection).

    So it is decently strong, but even the most vulnerable classes have a counter (archdruids will eventually totally cancel it out).

    And golden dragons are immune, so I’m happy with that.

    However, there will probably be other undead that reduce resistance (we already know that some reduce morale, so resistance is probably next).

    Then there are spells like degenerate, oily skin, and abilities like weaken, spirit breaking, and inflict noxious resistance.

    Goblin necromancer has the obvious synergy, as well as Orc (with curse). Human as well.

    So this seems like a hybrid between the shadow stalker and Shrine. It has the shrine’s high single target damage potential with reliance on supporting units, and it also (probably) has some direct melee attack value.

    It would also make necromancer/rouge and Necromancer/theocrat pairings very strong.

    #131710

    Kaiosama TLJ
    Member

    @zorrino, please make your own thread if you want to discuss your proposal. This thread is about an upcoming class.

    #131770

    Gloweye
    Member

    Necromancer/theocrat pairings very strong.

    In team games a Theocrat/Necromancer pairing will be the ultimate nightmare late game. 80% Spirit weakness boosts invoke death chance to around 80-90 % on non-resistant T4 units, and still have 35-40% against your average Strong Will unit.

    #131788

    Shiara384
    Member

    @epaminondas. Yeah, I can understand your complains about disintegrate. Tho may i point out something?

    I’m not sure that the other instant death abilities “Wipe” The target out, like disintegrate does. The reason you can’t ressurect/resurge someone from disintegrate is there is no corpse left behind, with Invoke Death there is.

    Ressurection requires a corpse, from my experience. Thats all I wanted to say.

    #131794

    Steven Aus
    Member

    Actually they changed Explosive Death and Reanimation so you could still resurrect from it if you won the battle. And in a magic world, it is not hard to imagine an ability that reforms the figure as well as calling them back from death (which is what essentially happens with Explosive Death and Reanimation). So while I would appreciate if Disintegrate did not turn off Resurgence in all its forms, it is sufficient for me if no more “switch off Resurgence before instant death” capabilities were introduced. Disintegrate can be somewhat protected against by using up their Casting Points before the heroes or champions go in, but I wouldn’t like a unit to be able to remove Resurgence before instant death.

    #131800

    Fenraellis
    Member

    So, Machines and Goblins 😉

    Psh… Tombles wouldn’t approve.

    Besides, it’s obviously the Haflings that are soulless. They obviously traded their souls for the Devil’s Luck. Also, some of them were missing eyes during the Beta. Truly, a frightening visage.

    How about having Invoke Death just check against plain Resistance? Machines etc. could always be otherwise excluded, and this would keep the ability usefull. Also, maybe raise the chance off success the lower the Enemy’s Morale is? So something like (morale/20)*(base chance), so at max morale, a 10 Res unit would have a 30% chance to die, and at min morale, a 70% chance to die. I really like scaling abilities with morale, one of the possibilities being the conversion abilities(Unhappy soldiers may be Seduced easier…)

    That does remind me that Undead already have a mechanic to utilize lowered morale with the Lost Souls unit:
    “Exploit Despair ability, which allows them to deal extra damage against units with low morale.”

    Something which would actually be quite fitting for something like a target giving in to Death more easily, if their morale was low enough. Also, quite fitting in this context that Bless and Touch of Faith both provide boosts of Morale as well.

    Higher tier units generally have higher resistance, and thus more protection against Infliction effects, although they do tend to start stacking once they start. Also, a sort of contrasting irony that the ‘immortal’ Elves, with their Blight Weakness, are the most likely to easily stack the various morale penalizing Blight afflictions(if their resistance is lowered in some way first, otherwise they are not really any more likely than anybody else).

    Actually, if it got exacerbated by Morale, depending on the scaling of such, it would probably be best if the base strength was lower than even 10.

    On an unrelated note, even ignore Armageddon, Theocrat’s really would be a Necromancer’s best friend either way, with their spell that attempts to reduce Morale by 800. The irony. Of course, a Necromancer is likely to have some Morale affecting spells anyway, so that may be largely irrelevant.

    In regards to your idea of Conversion based abilities, or perhaps the Fear/Panic type abilities. Either way, some of the abilities that are currently on the Spirit channel. For them to be non-aligned, and have a base Resistance check, which is modified by Morale rating, rather than any sort of Protection rating, really is quite fitting, I agree.

    #131833

    Grimwald
    Member

    Hello, I’m just curious here, but I was wondering how choosing to be a Necromancer will affect your alignment. I mean, can you be a Necromancer and still commit acts of good (spare escaping enemies, making cities happy etc.) and be considered good?

    Also, will there be new campaigns featuring the Necromancer and other heroes as well.

    The designs, I’d like to add, are just absolutely MARVELOUS.

    #131836

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Invoke Death could instead inflict damage, and i’d go with a damage type that is more inclusive, its weird that an epic fire breathing dragon is vulnerable to invoke death, and a unicorn is not.

    Actually, unicorns in fantasy are typically living symbols of life, purity, and incorruptibility, with a tendency to shrug off attempts to harm it with magic like water off a duck’s back. Thus, I’d see it as entirely reasonable that a unicorn would be not worth attempting an Invoke Death on when you can just cut it down with your scythe (or scything claws, or whatever the Reaper will turn out to have) – in fact, it’s a little weird that they’re so vulnerable to poison, given their mythological connection to neutralising it. Maybe it’s because they’re so used to everything they consume being purified of even minor toxins that they just can’t handle them when introduced artificially into their system?

    Dragons, on the other hand, are just ten tons of flaming muscle powered by a brain the size of a…

    …actually, AoW dragons are quite intelligent. Nevertheless, with the exception of the dragons that explicitly have spirit resistance or immunity, there’s no reason why a dragon would be much more resistant to such magic than anything else of similar size.

    #131890

    terrahero
    Member

    But this is the balance that iffs me. Its the most corrupting force imaginable, Death itself, is unable to corrupt a mere unicorn. A creature so mundane High Elves form it into basic cavalry.

    Maybe i am just to set in the old AoW alignments. Where Death and Holy opposed eachother fiercely, and one was effective against the other and vice versa. Not a single Undead unit in AoW actually had Holy weakness. And only two Highman units had Death immunity, being the Avenger and the Puppet (which is more a spirit than a racial individual).
    These two fought on fairly even footing.

    Now, Necromancer’s Undead are all weak to Spirit that the Theocrat has. And the Spirit abilities the Necromancer has, are less effective against the Theocrat.
    It may be clear that where divinity and death were in balance before, its now a case where death gets countered by divinity.
    And these two concepts no longer stand against eachother on even footing, but one clearly has been given the upperhand.

    And that bothers me. Thats not a balance. A greater force of corruption should be able to corrupt/destroy a lesser force of purity.
    The idea that a bunch of Cherubs are harder to Invoke Death then a mighty Dragon, or a mythological Manticore, just boggles my mind. And that mortal men are outright immune through sheer zealous devotion to their deity or leader, boggles my mind even harder.

    If Triumph pushes through with the classical concept of Invoke Death, i would like it if they also bring back the general indiscriminate nature of this ability. The embodiment of Death should be able to tear the souls right out of some puny Crusaders!

    #131903

    Ravenholme
    Member

    But this is the balance that iffs me. Its the most corrupting force imaginable, Death itself, is unable to corrupt a mere unicorn. A creature so mundane High Elves form it into basic cavalry.

    Maybe i am just to set in the old AoW alignments. Where Death and Holy opposed eachother fiercely, and one was effective against the other and vice versa. Not a single Undead unit in AoW actually had Holy weakness. And only two Highman units had Death immunity, being the Avenger and the Puppet (which is more a spirit than a racial individual).<br>
    These two fought on fairly even footing.

    Now, Necromancer’s Undead are all weak to Spirit that the Theocrat has. And the Spirit abilities the Necromancer has, are less effective against the Theocrat.<br>
    It may be clear that where divinity and death were in balance before, its now a case where death gets countered by divinity.<br>
    And these two concepts no longer stand against eachother on even footing, but one clearly has been given the upperhand.

    And that bothers me. Thats not a balance. A greater force of corruption should be able to corrupt/destroy a lesser force of purity.<br>
    The idea that a bunch of Cherubs are harder to Invoke Death then a mighty Dragon, or a mythological Manticore, just boggles my mind. And that mortal men are outright immune through sheer zealous devotion to their deity or leader, boggles my mind even harder.

    If Triumph pushes through with the classical concept of Invoke Death, i would like it if they also bring back the general indiscriminate nature of this ability. The embodiment of Death should be able to tear the souls right out of some puny Crusaders!

    Spirit isn’t Holy though, so it definitely is a case of you being stuck in the old alignments. If it was Holy, Watchers wouldn’t deal it.

    #131905

    terrahero
    Member

    I know they arent the same, and in a way they kinda are. This is a general paradigm shift that happend before the Necromancer, in the Archon’s which now are the closest thing to the traditional Undead.
    And it bothered me then, but it was only a single dwelling at the time.

    But the general concept is that Theocrat oppose Undead and the “unnatural”. And it used to be a case where the forces that opposed the Undead and the unnatural themselves got opposed by these Undead and unnatural forces.
    Now its more a case of rock paper scissors, where the Theocrat opposes the Necromancer.

    People complained about Dreadnought having some units take some reduced damage from Theocrat, calling it onesided. I wonder what these people will say about the Necromancer vs Theocrat.
    So i am curious to see the Reaper’s stats, and i think the one remaining Necromancer unit. Aswell as the empire upgrades and spells. To see if these can bring some balance to this matchup.

    #131944

    And that bothers me. Thats not a balance. A greater force of corruption should be able to corrupt/destroy a lesser force of purity.
    The idea that a bunch of Cherubs are harder to Invoke Death then a mighty Dragon, or a mythological Manticore, just boggles my mind. And that mortal men are outright immune through sheer zealous devotion to their deity or leader, boggles my mind even harder.

    But it can, just not on the magical plane. The whole idea of “strong will” is that any kind of super obsession/mental power makes you immune to all influences. Mind over matter and purity of will, rather than purpose.

    take the horned god, for instance. It doesn’t use spirit energy, but has strong will since it is an absolute avatar of nature.

    Red dragons, on the other hand, are big and strong, and too intelligent to be mind controlled, but are not devoted to or obsessed with any purpose.

    Of course, the undead would be the perfect class to have a “break will” ability that attempts to strip strong will from a target.

    #131959

    Fenraellis
    Member

    For what it’s worth, it would be entirely unsurprising for Necromancers to have an Empire Upgrade that equalizes the Spirit Weakness of Undead to functional value of 0. Also, for Necromancer heroes to have party Spirit Protection, as well as self(or Strong Will).

    #131963

    Draxynnic
    Member

    But this is the balance that iffs me. Its the most corrupting force imaginable, Death itself, is unable to corrupt a mere unicorn. A creature so mundane High Elves form it into basic cavalry.

    I’m pretty sure the unicorn coming from the fey dwelling is a substantially more powerful individual than those ridden by elven basic cavalry. This certainly holds when you look at the units – the fey dwelling unicorn is a single unit that has spirit damage, spirit protection, and is generally of roughly the same power despite being a single-figure unit without a rider as opposed to a three-figure unit with riders. Certainly, you’ll note that unicorn riders don’t have even token Spirit Protection or even one point in the spirit channel to represent the unicorns, and unicorn riders are subject to unruly mounts while the fey dwelling unicorn, having Strong Will and being a fey rather than an animal, is doubly immune to that brand of archdruid shenanigans.

    I think this is fitting for a creature that is often characterised as being relatively weak physically, but able to raise a big middle finger to anyone trying to hit it with hostile magic (it’s worth noting that in fantasy settings that don’t reduce things to statistics, unicorns are often presented as being much closer to dragons in overall power and significance in the world, they just aren’t as powerful in direct combat). I don’t think there’s much doubt that a tier 4 reaper is going to be able to swat a tier 2 unicorn regardless, they’ll just do it the old-fashioned way.

    Maybe i am just to set in the old AoW alignments. Where Death and Holy opposed eachother fiercely, and one was effective against the other and vice versa. Not a single Undead unit in AoW actually had Holy weakness. And only two Highman units had Death immunity, being the Avenger and the Puppet (which is more a spirit than a racial individual).
    These two fought on fairly even footing.

    Actually, archons/high men were always strong against the undead:

    In AoW1, granted, undead didn’t have holy vulnerability (I don’t think AoW1 had vulnerabilities at all). However, they did have at least protection to everything else except magic and physical, and wraiths had physical immunity – something that the high men had less trouble getting around than most races. High Men also had wider access to Turn Undead than most, having the basic level on Paladins and augmented forms on their Saints and Avengers.

    Basically, the balance in AoW1 was that undead could be a PITA for everyone else, but High Men could deal with them fairly conveniently.

    In AoW2, a few undead units had holy vulnerability, but otherwise the ability of high men to totally mess up undead was reduced (Paladins were significantly nerfed, and even gained Death Vulnerability in SM, which was probably done for balance reasons but which I always thought was a little strange).

    The idea that a bunch of Cherubs are harder to Invoke Death then a mighty Dragon, or a mythological Manticore, just boggles my mind. And that mortal men are outright immune through sheer zealous devotion to their deity or leader, boggles my mind even harder.

    The thing is that cherubs, crusaders, and so on do have a mystical protection that renders their souls immune to such shenanigans (unless that protection is sapped in some manner). A dragon, when push comes to shove, is simply a large monster – it has no such protection beyond having a stronger constitution than most humanoids (something that is reflected in a high resistance), unless it’s a gold of course. Meanwhile, the crusader lore makes much at how they shrug off many of the tricks that a necromancer attempts to throw at them.

    The thing is, this is one ability, on a unit that probably still backs it up with a potent melee attack. Frankly, and ironically given your comparison, the time when a player is probably going to most miss being able to Invoke Death to have a shot at one-killing something is probably when facing gold dragons which can probably take on a reaper one-on-one and expect to win, not when facing tier 1 scouts or tier 2 units that the reaper can probably handle in conventional combat fairly trivially.

    Meanwhile, I doubt that the necromancer is actually going to be wholly reliant on one channel – there’ll be blight and possibly cold as well as spirit in their arsenal, which will allow them to get around Strong Will simply by using a different channel.

    #131985

    Smaug3
    Member

    Wait… They’ve been announcing the units two at a time, one week apart each. If they’re releasing them by rank, and the deathbringer, which is tier 3, comes before bone collector… Does the necromancer have three tier threes?

    #131989

    Fenraellis
    Member

    That would put them at the same as the current Dreadnought(let’s ignore Druid summons for now…).

    Personally, I’m still really hoping for a Banshee with a ‘Cause Fear’ breath attack(Shaken on fail, to still hinder Morale). Unfortunately, though, with the Deathbringer being listed as a Support… actually, looking at it again, it doesn’t have a listing, it very well might be an Infantry type. Well, I was going to say, I don’t see two Supports and a Monster, or a Support and two Monsters. Now, though, Support, Infantry and Monster, well, it could make sense.

    That being said, the Deathbringer might not even be Tier 3, even it would be a bit of a shame. Currently, we’ve got:
    Tier 1:
    — Lost Souls

    Tier 2:
    — Reanimator
    … possibly Deathbringer

    Tier 3:
    — Bone Collector
    … possibly Deathbringer(hopefully Tier 3, though, eh ;))

    Anyway, a Reaper unit of some sort will be the Tier 4, but I could see space for another Tier 3, or even possibly just going back and listing another Tier 2 unit in the next Dev Journal.

    6 units puts them at the low end for classes, but they do have Ghouls for Empire Skills to modify as well. And the Creeper in-combat unit, I suppose.

    #132048

    Smaug3
    Member

    Actually, they confirmed deathbringer as tier three. Anyway, it would be interesting, with an easily researchable tier one and two, but then much higher research cost for the tier threes, making the necromancer able to be hard hitting early on, but then sort of stalled in mid-game, then unbelievably powerful in late game. Also, I count archdruid summons, because that’s the class I play. To be fair, they have a lot of different units, so I count them as the highest class unit number.

Viewing 30 posts - 121 through 150 (of 180 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.