Dev Journal: Cities of the Dead

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: Cities of the Dead

This topic contains 122 replies, has 58 voices, and was last updated by  Fenraellis 7 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 91 through 120 (of 123 total)
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  • #129237

    Steven Aus
    Member

    After all, we already have the case where some full races can’t use all special improvements. Halflings for example, don’t have any armored units AFAIK so don’t benefit at all from the Crystal Tree unless you have class units that are armored.

    #129238

    Althea
    Member

    I believe pony rider and nightwatch are armored.

    #129371

    Kaiosama TLJ
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>THE Black Knight wrote:</div>
    into vampires or werewolves

    Just going to point out that Vampires are Undead(although I believe they made reference to the fact that they may not be returning) but… werewolves are most definitely not Undead units. Heck, the only non-Undead unit that’s ever really been noteworthy as part of their lineup(besides their machines in AoW1) were the infernal Demon and Hell Hound units from the same game. Which still had Regeneration and Fearless like all other Undead units, and at least Death Protection.

    By BK suggestion I can assume that he loved Death Magic in Master of Magic just like me, since there was a spell there that could turn one unit into Werewolves.

    That said I also disagree like you, because even though Necromancy was a big part of Death Magic that’s also not was it all about, Death Magic was a big collection of black magic tropes, so I could roll out with Werewolves there. (or maybe not since they were kind of crappy compared to Death Knights)

    And the Necromancer should focus on Undead. Werewolves are not Undead, they are living creatures. Maybe they could fit better in a sort of “Beastmen” Dwelling along Minotaurs. (but not as a race since the furry niche is already filled with Tigrans)

    #129373

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Althea is correct – Nightwatch and Pony Riders are Armoured. Draconians and goblins, though, both lack armoured units outside of class units.

    @Kaiosama: Werewolves were also a lot lower in the research chain: I think they were Uncommon? They also came from a unit enchantment rather than a summon, which in MoM’s summoning system, meant that if a particular location needed reinforcement in a hurry than turning some low-end units into werewolves could be more efficient than moving your summoning circle there.

    That said, it is certainly more a Death Magic thing rather than specifically a necromancy thing. In context, I think, it may even be more appropriate for archdruids.

    Although it IS worth noting that at one point werewolves were apparantly considered as an undead unit in AoW1, that didn’t happen.

    #129380

    After all, we already have the case where some full races can’t use all special improvements. Halflings for example, don’t have any armored units AFAIK so don’t benefit at all from the Crystal Tree unless you have class units that are armored.

    Nightwatch and Pony Riders are armored.

    #129382

    Steven Aus
    Member

    Oh, sorry about that. =)

    #129667

    Fizzbitch
    Member

    This sounds very complicated, but cool.

    So what happens when a non-necromancer player takes over a Ghoul town? Will he be able to produce Ghouls, or must he convert back to a normal town first?

    #129675

    Fenraellis
    Member

    This sounds very complicated, but cool.

    So what happens when a non-necromancer player takes over a Ghoul town? Will he be able to produce Ghouls, or must he convert back to a normal town first?

    It’s possible, if not outright likely, that Ghouls will be classified as ‘class units’ for the sake of whether or not one can produce them. Thus, a non-Necromancer would be forced to press that angry Purge button before they can utilize a Ghouled city.

    #129681

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fizzbitch wrote:</div>
    This sounds very complicated, but cool.

    So what happens when a non-necromancer player takes over a Ghoul town? Will he be able to produce Ghouls, or must he convert back to a normal town first?

    It’s possible, if not outright likely, that Ghouls will be classified as ‘class units’ for the sake of whether or not one can produce them. Thus, a non-Necromancer would be forced to press that angry Purge button before they can utilize a Ghouled city.

    Not sure that would be the case actually, I think it is possible that they can keep them (as they’ve already suggested that some of your units can get infected with the Ghoul curse and remain under your control), but you would be at a severe disadvantage (despite the 100% Blight Resistance of Ghoul units) because you would have no way to heal them without access to the Necromancer class units.

    #129684

    or archon priests. I also assume that heal undead, if it isn’t already a craftable item, will become so with the patch (in case some are acquired through inns or by surrendering leaders).

    #129705

    Or Embalmers Guild and other Ghoul City buildings.

    #131052

    Zathrendar
    Member

    Morbidly delicious news! I will definitely be trying this out. Here come the dark elves!

    #131055

    Zathrendar
    Member

    Just make “Good Necromancer” possible, please, please, PLEASE, PLEASE!!<br>
    They so rare in games (and books btw). Maybe some bonuses 4 non sity convertion path?<br>
    Becouse “turn everyone into a ghouls” seems not like a good action at all.<br>
    Even theocrat can be poor evil, so necromancer must have a good way to.

    The Might & Magic series, as of V, does morally gray towards good necromancers, as an FYI. I also agree they shouldn’t necessarily be evil.

    I like the concept behind the necromancer, and can only hope they plan to expand other classes in the same way.

    #131056

    Thariorn
    Member

    The Might & Magic series, as of V, does morally gray towards good necromancers, as an FYI. I also agree they shouldn’t necessarily be evil.

    Although this is rather offtopic…

    Gameplay-wise the HoMaM Necros of the fifth installement (HoMaM:V) aren’t shifted towards good, lorewise tho they are.

    The thing is, in a not story-focused game, e.g. Age of Wonders, a Necromancer/Undead class/race which is totally viable whilst either being played stereotipical bad or being played as a necro doing his stuff for the good, is something we hadn’t had that often till now (And no, I wouldn’t say the story necros in HoMaM are ‘good’ Necros just because they fended of Demons)

    #131194

    Zathrendar
    Member

    They’re given a much more sympathetic portrayal than usual, I would say. Anastasia is a victim of circumstances, for instance, and Sveltana guides her from harm. Markal was a pretty cynical person, though.

    #131205

    Charlatan
    Member

    I think the style of the Necromancers on this concept art is so ******* awesome, I couldn’t elaborate this opinion here without getting banned from the forum.

    If thats how they will look, I will name Triumph Studios the best people of the universe, forever.

    PS: I pretty much hope that the healthy and decayed variants of the Necromancer Leaders themselves are a hint at a seperation of good and evil indeed, instead of branding them all evil.

    But that good necromancer topic was discussed here in detail often enough.

    #132437

    Nimiria
    Member

    I hope when I turn a city to undead I get basic undead troops there, and not for every race different ones. In that case I would have to first convert and then turn to undead since I never use multiraced armies.

    #134148

    Pesky
    Member

    Honestly, Undead units should be able to regenerate in blight terrain. Maybe generate less than others, but still generate.

    #134200

    NuMetal
    Member

    Honestly, Undead units should be able to regenerate in blight terrain. Maybe generate less than others, but still generate.

    I like that idea! 🙂

    #134205

    There is alot of blight in the game though….I’d prefer it if their regen was tied to “centres” of death, i.e. cemeteries, Undead cities, Necro heroes, which would be a fairly interesting and new way to address the regen issue, i.e. the further they get from their centre of power, the less they regenerate, so we have the situation where:

    Goblins regenerate in wetlands better.
    Orcs do it by killing stuff.
    Draconians regenerate extra anyway.
    Humans have innate healers.
    Dwarves have innate healers (and are tough as nails)
    Elves don’t get extra healing but are a strong race regardless.

    And now Necromancer healing is tied to the area that is “Undead.”

    #134209

    NuMetal
    Member

    After thinking about it a little more I also figured that making them so Blight dependend might not be a good idea because it’d almost force a Necromancer player to pick Destruction Mastery. I just liked the style of the idea so much.
    Undead heal only in the parts of the land they have already corrupted…
    But I guess letting them only heal in turned cities or something would be better.

    #134230

    JPoll
    Member

    @numetal
    Unless you give them a them a way to corrupt the land without destruction mastery…

    #134323

    Fenraellis
    Member

    @numetal<br>
    Unless you give them a them a way to corrupt the land without destruction mastery…

    They would also need a way for non-Goblins to not Dislike/Hate Blight as well at such a point. Since it’s not like all of your units are Machines/Undead. Also, I think it would undermine the Destruction specialization at that point.

    Personally, I would favor BBB’s idea. Something like healing in the domain of cities with their T2 class structure, similar to the Archon dwelling structure, and extra in the city itself with the Hospital replacement for Ghouled cities. Also, possibly a Necromancer hero upgrade that provides half-standard healing rate to Undead units in their stack. Well, Heal Undead would already provide passive healing, and I’m sure they will get that on their Heroes and Supports, but either way.

    #134325

    And ofcourse healing after a successful battle, linked to the size of the forces destroyed, representing harvesting the corpses…

    #134354

    Gloweye
    Member

    Yeah, I think Undead healing should be done mainly by Hero Ability(Maybe Heal Undead doubling up with a Healing Aura variant for undead?), and the city upgrades – not global boosts, as that will remove a lot of uniqueness. Also, dreads don’t have it either, and they’re doing fine anyway.

    #134400

    Draxynnic
    Member

    And ofcourse healing after a successful battle, linked to the size of the forces destroyed, representing harvesting the corpses…

    Hrrrmn. Possibly healing a certain amount for every corpse that isn’t exploited during the battle? Thus further reinforcing the concept of corpses being a resource for the necromancer…

    #134438

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BLOODYBATTLEBRAIN wrote:</div>
    And ofcourse healing after a successful battle, linked to the size of the forces destroyed, representing harvesting the corpses…

    Hrrrmn. Possibly healing a certain amount for every corpse that isn’t exploited during the battle? Thus further reinforcing the concept of corpses being a resource for the necromancer…

    Yes. So corpses = resources, as you say, and you can use them to upgrade the Bone Collector, heal existing forces etc.

    #134830

    Pesky
    Member

    Considering blight probably has a lot of dead things in it, It would make sense they regen (as u said harvesting), but regenerate more in buildings.

    There needs to be something that’ll let them sustain on the map otherwise they’ll just get demolished by map-like spell. Lightning etc, considering all units are going to be undead except the siege units or something.

    Also are u planning on adding some Undead Horsemen like the Wraiths from Lord of the Rings? Would be sick.

    #134838

    Pesky
    Member

    Actually, on second thought, I like Blood’s idea where they regenerate like a percentage of their max hp scaling with how much units they killed and if they are victorious or not.

    #134865

    Fenraellis
    Member

    considering all units are going to be undead except the siege units or something.

    Class units, and Racial units produced from towns that have been Ghouled only. A Necromancer will have to choose a balance of how many living vs Undead units they choose to field.
    A mix of circumstances, such as the presence of upgrades to Undead units, access to healing(races with good healing sources might sometimes be better off kept living, depending on availability of Healing for Undead), and of course the type of opponents they are facing, will all factor into it.

    Also, simply due to town growth mechanics, it isn’t likely in a Necromancer’s best interest to Ghoul all towns early and often. So living Racial units will be in armies plenty of times. Heck, if Inns are in, then there are some living units right there as well.

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