Dev Journal: Improving Race Variety & Starting Perks

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: Improving Race Variety & Starting Perks

This topic contains 165 replies, has 66 voices, and was last updated by  vault101tunnelsnake 4 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 166 total)
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  • #134245

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster
    #134246

    Taykor
    Member

    a spell that allows them to transform neutral mana nodes into Air nodes.

    Neutral (i.e. cosmos/mana) nodes only? Couldn’t we convert, for example, a Fire node? That would be hardly useful otherwise.

    removal of the Skewer unit

    Don’t remove it, make it a neutral unit and place it somewhere in independent structures/independent parties generators.

    These are all great news, of course. The game definitely will be even better.

    #134248

    Backero
    Member

    Im excited about new Goblin Units. They’ve got any mad-scientic clothes? With that background they look like Frostlings with ice axes.

    Still waiting for more Necro news.

    #134250

    Smaug3
    Member

    That butcher will make an excellent unit to defend city walls and gates with life steal. Now I want to switch from my archdruid air/water/fire adept combo to air master and water adept with all the new patch stuff. That orc ability will be terrifying in combat, especially if the battle is down to a wire.

    #134251

    Hellspirit
    Member

    Awesome,but,are we going to get a new race?I hardly belive coz of necro class,but i’d like to see shadow demons or dark elves soooo much :(.

    #134252

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Everything looks…

    AwEsOmE!

    #134253

    Hieronymous
    Member

    This is exciting!

    Possible suggestion – Skewers could evolve to Butchers? Though, really, it’d be more fun to just be able to build them…

    Also, I hope Orc Priests get the War Cry ability, since they are IMO kind of low on the ladder of racial supports, and this would add some fun flavor.

    #134254

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Estimated time of release, by the way? Can I hope for my wildly-optimistic-utopian date of around Christmas? 😉

    #134255

    Harleyquin14
    Member

    Butchers are back! Yay!

    The above (and hopefully more) should add more variety to the game and address some concerns about everything feeling the same despite the choices available.

    #134256

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Butchers are back! Yay!

    The above (and hopefully more) should add more variety to the game and address some concerns about everything feeling the same despite the choices available.

    Indeed; and I hope the Butchers are not the only new racial/class unit additions/replacements.

    #134259

    LordTheRon
    Member

    Da Butcher is back!!! And other good things too. 🙂

    #134260

    Oh nice, the leader selection info window should make a big difference.

    #134263

    vota dc
    Member

    Very interesting now goblin have a chance to win with better troops while the others will have to use archers in big numbers to win.

    #134265

    My only question is, if the Butchers are a straight swap for Skewers, which is what I am reading, but they are T2, does that mean they unlock the same as Skewers do currently, in other words Goblins get the *best* racial Pike unit, so everyone else has Chargers/Pikemen/Halberdiers but Skewers are the peers (but more expensive)?

    Because, if so, that will immediately make Goblins much more interesting to play as.

    Dare I say it, this is a step towards making the races…asymmetric? 😛

    Possible balance niggles over such drastically cheaper Treb access for Dwarves, as 1/3 of 165 is still 105 something gold, much less than everyone else with their 150 siege shops, but on the other hand Trebuchets themselves will presumably still cost the same and the extra 10 hammers won’t totally offset the extra 10% innate Dwarven costs…

    edit: maths!

    Cheaper barracks for Orcs is much less problematic, but there my only niggle is that it means earlier access to 2 units, which as an Orc you would probably not use all that much, those being the Greatsword (who, whilst not shabby, isn’t outstanding, and let’s be honest, how often do you use low level infantry? I use the Dwarves because they are sturdy as hell, and Orcs come in a bit after that as they can victory rush, but imho the infantry matrix is lacking when compared to that of Cavalry or support for example) and the Razorbows, who is proving controversial, in that some players (Garresh) think they are terribad, whilst others (Bouh etc) think their razor projectiles make them rather interesting.

    My question is basically this: will earlier access to these benefit an Orc player? I look forward to playtesting this :).

    Lastly, the changes to adept and mastery vis-a-vis mana income/research are very welcome in my eyes. This will make your sphere choices more impactful. The only downside I foresee is picking air mastery and starting near a bunch of earth nodes…

    To counter that, I would suggest a mastery spell to convert non-neutral nodes, at a higher cost ofcourse. For example, air master spends 25 mana to convert a neutral node, and 50 to convert a node of another sphere. Basically, cast the same spell twice, one to make it neutral, one to convert it to your side. I’d also strongly suggest that the player start with these enabled.

    To further the importance of your sphere choice, I’d like to suggest a return to the AoW1 antagonistic system, but if one does that then one would need more spells in each sphere I think…which sounds like work.

    #134268

    Zorrino
    Member

    YAY!!!! =D My favorite unit is back, The Butchers!!!! =D

    I Love these little goblins =D

    Anyways a little thought about the skewers tho I agree with…

    removal of the Skewer unit

    Don’t remove it, make it a neutral unit and place it somewhere in independent structures/independent parties generators.

    and….

    This is exciting!

    Possible suggestion – Skewers could evolve to Butchers? Though, really, it’d be more fun to just be able to build them…

    I mean don’t the Goblins have hordes of them running all over the place? I would make since to see that goblins have multiple units to select from to build and use. =D

    Also I wanted to bring an idea in to the game that I always thought was a little weak from the beginning and was hoping to help make it a little more sense to the whole battle system:
    1: The units damage modifier no matter how many HP the units have are always the same, if the group of units are about to die wouldn’t it make more sense that a smaller number of soldiers would do less of a damage output rather than a bigger group of soldiers?
    2: I still like the simultaneous battle plans I had said a couple of weeks ago, where you plan out the paths of all your units before you hit the end turn button, but hey its just an idea I don’t expect any of these ideas to plan out since I know how much of a game changer that would be. =)

    So with the changing of the nodes is such a great and classical idea, would it be possible to add in the ability to raze nodes, structures, and treasure sites? If you can do it to towers and cities why not the rest of the stuff on the map?

    #134271

    ugh, I have been reminded that building costs are the same across the board, so the Dwarves will pay 100 gold…

    I will hang my head in shame now.

    #134273

    thabob79
    Member

    So overall adept of air would result of a ‘net benefit’ of 0 (assuming you find a equal number of each node). Maybe +10 air and -5 earth might be a better bonus.

    #134274

    Fenraellis
    Member

    So overall adept of air would result of a ‘net benefit’ of 0 (assuming you find a equal number of each node). Maybe +10 air and -5 earth might be a better bonus.

    For what it’s worth, in the very first game, Nodes only gave you 5 * your Sphere section in mana income. So if you had no Fire Sphere selections, a Fire Node gave you nothing at all. Conversely, selecting three points for Fire would give you 15 income per node.

    #134277

    Soeren217
    Member

    So awesome! And really amazing to see how much you listen to the community feedback 🙂

    #134278

    Amazing truly, im hoping to see other changes/additions to other race’s troops as well like giving elves tier 2 archers orc tier 2 infantry or some stuff like that.

    Can’t wait for these updates, i hope this update and the dlc comes before christmas xD.

    #134279

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Amazing truly, im hoping to see other changes/additions to other race’s troops as well like giving elves tier 2 archers orc tier 2 infantry or some stuff like that.

    Can’t wait for these updates, i hope this update and the dlc comes before christmas xD.

    Yes, this would be the very asymmetric racial unit revision that BBB apparently favors – and I’d go for it as well, if well done in the manner of the Butcher.

    Edit: I’d add, however, I would’ve liked it more if the devs simply made the Butcher a racial T3 and added another racial T3 across the races to mitigate late-game unit uniformity/tedium. Perhaps we can still hope for the future? 🙂

    #134282

    Actually i agree with Epaminondas, every race has only one base tier 3 unit, one more for everyone would be better, but it would also be pretty difficult to balance.

    If the devs are actually considering more additions i don’t lose anything by posting a few suggestions:

    -Elves get a tier 3 archer.
    -Humans and draconians could get new tier 3 casters
    -Dwarves get a unique tier 3 siege machine.
    – Like Epaminondas said the butcher could be a unique tier 3 pikeman for goblins instead of ditching the skewer.
    – orcs could get tier 3 cavalry or maybe unique tier 3 irregular unit with unique bonuses.
    – i really don’t know about halflings, maybe they could get a big fireworks machine with aoe damage, or a bard-like shooter to compensate their brew brothers being short ranged.

    #134289

    esvath
    Member

    Awesome!!!

    I propose to add Racial specialisation (for the n-th time, I know…)

    Leaders could choose a racial specialisation when starting a game, according to his/her race.
    By choosing this specialisation, a leader could research several techs that:
    a) give empire upgrades to units of the said race in his empire (Elven Leathercraft: High Elven units get +1 defense).
    b) give empire upgrades that unlock new building OR increase the effect of existed building in cities of that race (Treetop Defense: defensive towers in High Elven cities deal +50% more damage).
    c) unlock new Tier 3 or new Tier 4 racial units.

    #134290

    sharky
    Member

    Excellent, the butcher. My favorite unit from AoW2/SM! Now just to see Frostlings return, oh and Tigrans!!
    God, I have a list of game suggestions, but my major question is, that if I formulate and put in the effort to make suggestions. Will it be read/ taken seriously. It costs a lot of effort and if it isn’t “appreciated” then no use bothering, Edit: sorry for the pessimism.

    In any case a suggestion for the game that I previously brought up and that was very popular is to have a certain amount of spells guaranteed to come up first in your research page to counter the extremes that sometimes occur and that can destroy a play-style.
    I firmly believe that the “terraformer” ability needs to be available from the start or research-able from the start to allow non summoning classes some leniency when it comes to mana dumping/wasting.

    This is the thread I posted it in, and it had a second thread added to it, but most things were said. http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/disappointed-with-halflings/ continued in.
    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/randomness-of-starting-skill/

    Also I believe that heroes need their movement adjusted to have “all terrain walking” wetland/mountaineering/forestry because as is your army leader is random and just out of your control 80% of the time. So they slow you down far too often, your multi-race armies are your own choice.

    #134293

    Gloweye
    Member

    Love the Butcher! And love you guys for putting them back in. However, I’m afraid I spotted the first bug – in the lore entry, it says something about “Impalers changing their spears” which should of course reference Skewers.

    Also, I appreciate the Specialization getting more impact this way. Would be even better if there’d be (maybe higher Tier) Avatar spell to “neutralize” the Mana Node – you could use your mana reserves to attempt and convert as much nodes as you can, and try and get a tech lead that way.

    I also like more racial differences. However, in the case of the Orc Battle cry, what is the difference between this and just a plain +3 damage boost? As far as I can divine from this, you’d just ALWAYS use it at the start of battle, no exceptions. If you’d for example give it a 3 turn duration(And 5 turn CD?), you’d have to try and activate it when engaging to maximize it’s effect. Alternatively, put in on Archers/Support and make the Battle Cry disable all abilities except for the melee. Kind of a Beserk Mode.

    as a Side Note, when is the DLC name getting known? Ima need something to put on the Wiki…

    Goblin Butcher on the Wiki:
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Goblin_Butcher

    Scroll down for full version and full version with the Stylite Mystical city upgrade. I got all its abilities, just cost and special medal upgrades are missing.

    #134295

    I also like more racial differences. However, in the case of the Orc Battle cry, what is the difference between this and just a plain +3 damage boost? As far as I can divine from this, you’d just ALWAYS use it at the start of battle, no exceptions.

    It’s until end of turn, not battle.

    #134297

    Fantastic to see quality of life stuff and improvement/iteration on current systems alongside the shiny new content!

    #134302

    sharky
    Member

    Yeah, I’m really impressed with the tweaking too Janitor. Very nice, forgot to mention that.

    #134303

    manicray
    Member

    I really like the look of these changes.
    What I would love to see next is a return of the tier 4 race specific units like the Karagh and the Leprechaun with it’s annoying laughter ehehe.
    I just loved those units 🙂

    #134304

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I also like more racial differences. However, in the case of the Orc Battle cry, what is the difference between this and just a plain +3 damage boost? As far as I can divine from this, you’d just ALWAYS use it at the start of battle, no exceptions.

    Yes, I found this strange as well. It may be better to simply have it accompany a small (defensive) penalty? Perhaps something like -1 Def and/or Res. If this is too punishing, then increase the damage slightly?

    A number I think is reasonable is 4 damage increase AND 1 Def AND Res decrease.

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