Dev Journal: Necromancer Class Design

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: Necromancer Class Design

This topic contains 215 replies, has 105 voices, and was last updated by  Dagoth Ur 4 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 181 through 210 (of 216 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #126130

    redskull2
    Member

    I want armies of the shambling dead. That simple. In master of magic my absolute FAVORITE global spell was Zombie Mastery. While active: every unit you killed, if you won the combat, came back to life as a generic zombie unit. Win a battle: stack of zombies!

    Now zombies weren’t great (though you could buff them with the global darkness spell) but they were hard to kill. And there were so MANY of them after a while. You would go into a battle and if you lost all of the zombies in your army and killed one unit of the enemy: looks like a win to me!

    It made for a game where (like many fantasy settings) the dead weren’t that powerful but they made up for quality with quantity. you would wear a high power stack down with waves of zombies and then hit them with a kill stack. Neutral armies were zombie generators, worth killing because they would swell the undead horde. Something that would fit well into this game by the way.

    Balance? How would it fit into multiplayer etc? No idea. But it was a fun mechanic that I found myself going back again and again to, burying the world in the endless hordes of the shambling dead.

    #126187

    Chikanuk
    Member

    Just one more thing – dont use standart zombies+skeletons+ghosts+vampires shit. Please please please! Its waaaaaaay too boring.

    #126197

    Chikanuk
    Member

    …Or use it but careful. 4 ex: Heroes 2,3,5, tomb kings in WHFB, and Disciples have really stupid and boring Necropolis with so unusual skeleton warriors, zombies, liches and over stuff. Cryx from Warmachine, Dungeons and Dragons (SUDDENLY =D), Guild Wars – they all have really interesting necromant creatures, spells, lore, etc.

    #126199

    Fizzbitch
    Member

    This is very interesting.

    You could have these units:
    – Zombie unit (similar as AoW2:SM) as an obvious T1 unit.
    – Necromancer, similar to the Undead’s unit, able to revive 1 undead unit until the end of combat or something like that, and generate Undead health. As well as being the Class’ T2 mage unit.
    – Unit similar to the Dark Elves’ Incarnate. Taking possession of another unit. T3 or T4.
    – Vampire like seducing unit that also makes her targets undead. (although Succubus might already take this role). Possible T2/3 unit.
    – Bone Horror is a classic that I would personally love to see brought back as a T3 unit.
    – Dread Reaper would be an obvious choice as a T4 unit.

    As for Spells:
    – summon Zombie on wether you want to produce it or summon it.
    – Summon Skeletal Warrior. This one would be fun, in that you can either get a random Skeletal Archer/Swordsman/Pikeman/Irregular unit. Another possible T1 unit.
    – Revive (a fallen unit for the duration of the battle)
    – Boosting undead unit spells, like Unholy.
    – An Anti-undead spell (Theocrat spell)
    – Banish undead or Weaken undead (possibly for the Theocrat as well)
    – A revive spell that gives you a unit, but only on a Hex in which any battle has taken place.
    – DEATH RAY, bring it back.
    – Demorilising spell, great to use for anti-halfling.

    I know a lot of these are not very original, or were largely in AoW2 & SM, but I try to help anyway.

    Will there be any Race in this DLC or is it too early to say?

    #126493

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    Thanks for responding, it seems there are more flaws to my idea than I had thought.

    How exactly would that Animated get inflicted? like you got an enchanted sword, hit me, and *poof*, I am an animated undead? And what’s the point of inflicting Resurgence on enemy units?

    And lets say you hit some units – but to be able to have your opponent have issues with them, those units need to survive the battle first – which means you’ve lost the battle.

    This idea started out as the traditional zombies infecting others to also become zombies. Perhaps it would be a better idea to have this ability on lower level animated units. Resurgence on a terrible unit is not so great, I think. Keep in mind that all of its stats are diminished and it has no healing (unless opponent has necromancer hero) It would be a hard choice for opponents whether or not to disband the unit.

    Also, current Inflict abilities only affect units during the combat. I really don’t think its a good idea to change that.

    I had not realised this. But I don’t think it matters. Controlling enemy units is an important feature of the game and this also exceeds the lenght of the battle.

    And about the buffs, isn’t it just easier to buff the undead trait? That one already will be on a good portion of your units, already exists, and is already used as a marker for a lot of effects, from immunities like the cases of mass curse/choking fumes to vulnerabilities like Holy Champion/Bane of the Unnatural.

    Most of the concept of the animated units and dark art ability is because I wanted to make a difference between the Undead units already in the game and those of the necromancer class. Specifically because of the undead are evil so necromancer must be evil arguments.

    #126507

    Gloweye
    Member

    Specifically because of the undead are evil so necromancer must be evil arguments.

    If it’s incorrect, (and this is), just ignore it.

    This idea started out as the traditional zombies infecting others to also become zombies.

    This is more based on the general movie version of zombies as opposed to the video game zombie. This isn’t a kind of infection or something, it just a dead body that happens to walk again because there’s some magic working in there. As far as I can see in the AoW universe, magic isn’t contagious.

    Resurgence on a terrible unit is not so great, I think.

    If there are enough, the quality doesn’t matter. All you have to do is survive the battle, and if you did, you did it without losses. I’ve just finished a Rogue XL map having over 4 cities chunking out Resurgent Succubi every other day. When you stack these, they are really incredibly overpowered. The only reason I didn’t use seduce more was that I didn’t want to dive under the 2K gold/Turn income, which I needed to proceed building Grand Palaces.

    Resurgence is an incredible strong ability, and it’s almost impossible to find a case where it isn’t at least strong. Once you can clear Forbidden Sancta as a Rogue, your set until the enemy can field multiple T4 stacks against you. And that still leaves you with a increble mobile army.

    And this ability of yours would have a change of bestowing it on every unit it hits?

    The first thing I’d try with all my T4’s would be to find a independent stack with that, find a way to bestow Tireless on your units, and take attacks of Oppertunity until it works. Theocrat Hero’s get Heal Undead as well, and thats whithout counting the possibility of Archon Dwellings.

    As for the difference between Necro units and Archons, my hope was for the Archons to be a kind of “Premium” undead. Maybe they’d need a buff for this, so they’d really become T1,5 Infantry. The Casters already are quite strong for a priest, have throw curse, frost bolts(rarest resist), AND a heal. Baseline. and they’d still get steal enchantment at level. (and resurgence….did you know that I sometimes let my Casters tank above the Titans?)They also got nice melee damage. Wraiths would be fine where they are now, just an efficient Incoporeal units.

    Motivation for this difference in quality would be that it is because the Archons are free-willed, and the Necro units are just merely puppets of said Necro.

    #126646

    Kaiosama TLJ
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Kaiosama TLJ wrote:</div>
    And this Necromancer mentality of “undeath for all” or being completely allergic to the living altoghter is a bit overdone and even lousy sometimes. I don’t know which game or story started with this but considering that by far AoW3 is doing lot of things that are unconventional for an typical fantasy game introducing the Necromancer this way would be 2 steps backwards.

    Consider that one of the contenders for most important necromancer in the setting is Meandor, who in AoW2 typically uses a balance of undead and dark elves.

    I think overall there’s room for both forms – those that are out to transform everything into undead, and those that simply treat the undead as another tool in their proverbial box to seek aims that may or may not be evil. Which is why I’m inclined to see transforming done on a case by case basis – for instance, you might be able to raze a city and transform it into a necropolis dwelling, but you don’t have an upgrade that turns all of your living units into undead.

    If all you want is to see dead people all across the map, you have tools that can do that. If you just want to supplement a living army with some undead, then you can do that too.

    I agree that there’s room for both, even in Master of Magic I could turn my soldiers into Undead, but it wasn’t obrigatory and not to mention that for me most of them were more useful still living, especially when I gone against Life Magic users like Sss’ra or Ariel.

    But this idea of transformation sonds lazy to me because even when the Undead were a race in the past they had a unique line-up of units not just in abilities but also appereance. Just picking up the racial units and re-skinning them instead of giving an decent and unique class line-up (and I welcome giving them racial modifiers) would be a letdown.

    I think there are better ways to make this class unique.

    I realise I said dual channel but what I described actually sounds more like hybrid, in that you can summon (at specific locations, namely tombstones and cities, so the latter is in effect variations on call militia) any of the base Undead units (also get them in battle, which would be huge), you can only build some (I’m thinking Vampire and Adept available in cities) and the reaper would be a very unique, and powerful, T4 which can only be recruited from cities.

    And speaking of ways to make the class unique I was having some crazy ideas about how of how the necro could summon and produce some units based on some suggestions here and one of the ideas was a bit similar to yours. (I even wrote some rough units stats in a note)

    The idea would be that the first research would not only unlock a Zombie unit to be produced in towns but would also unlock one ability for all Heroes (including the Leader) called Animation Ritual, that would make all racial enemy and friendly units to ressurect back as Zombies after the combat if you are victorious.

    The Zombie would be a weak Tier I Irregular with some racial stats, low upkeep/easy to make big numbers and HP a bit better that what you would expect from a unit of this type. However the zombi would also be an kind of third “resource” for the necro because he would learn later some spells to sacrifice them to create more powerful Undead, like the Bone Horror and the Dread Reaper. Alternatively you could sacrifice population to create the BH and the DR, but that would be considered an Act of Evil instead.

    Most of the concept of the animated units and dark art ability is because I wanted to make a difference between the Undead units already in the game and those of the necromancer class. Specifically because of the undead are evil so necromancer must be evil arguments.

    Actually the Dedicated to Evil trait on the current Undead units is counted as an Inherent trait rather than a result of the Undead trait.

    #126669

    Gloweye
    Member

    The Zombie would be a weak Tier I Irregular with some racial stats, low upkeep/easy to make big numbers and HP a bit better that what you would expect from a unit of this type. However the zombi would also be an kind of third “resource” for the necro because he would learn later some spells to sacrifice them to create more powerful Undead, like the Bone Horror and the Dread Reaper. Alternatively you could sacrifice population to create the BH and the DR, but that would be considered an Act of Evil instead.

    This made me have a very nice idea. First off, Necromancer heroes should be able to raise zombies, even if you’re not a necromancer yourself.

    Second, the zombies could be used as beacons for spells. Someone mentioned Corpse Explosion before – how about you march your zombie up to the enemy ranks, and than have it explode with a spell, for nice AoE damage?

    Or, since zombies are the cheapest unit you got, sacrifice a zombie (with a spell) to restore health to a higher Tier Undead.

    #126761

    Fogcrow
    Member

    In both the previous games, and AoW3, we have seen both good and evil Spirits, but thouse undead who had an animated Body were pure evil without exception (ok, the bone Dragon in SM was patched to merely evil, but to me it seemed like a sacrifice to improve gameplay, not a Change in Lore).

    I hope you´ll stick with this Setup.

    <Spoiler Alert>

    I had the Impression, that Death Magic has a will of its own, that overwrites the will of all individuals reanimated into non-Vampire-undeath, and the vast majoritiy of living beings who use it(like nekron, and probably grimber ambule too): the will to erase all life without exception and then crumble to dust themselves(as can be read in the Undead branches of the AoW1 campaign, especially the ending from the cult side).

    AoW:SM Vampire lore states that they actually desire eternal existance, and don´t want to eradicate their Prey either. They were just forced into allegance by the other froms of undead.

    Along thouse lines, imo it would be better for that empire upgrade to turn leader and heroes into Vampires instead of Archliches, since Vampirism seems to Permit more freedom of thought and alignment.

    And how about strong willed(immune to Spirit damage) Spirits animating the Armor of ancient Heroes and Kings(instead of their corpses) holy warrioring crusaders back?
    Maybe give them martial arts instead of shield in order to not make them just reverse Crusaders.

    #126803

    Gloweye
    Member

    In both the previous games, and AoW3, we have seen both good and evil Spirits, but thouse undead who had an animated Body were pure evil without exception (ok, the bone Dragon in SM was patched to merely evil, but to me it seemed like a sacrifice to improve gameplay, not a Change in Lore).

    The point is, at the time the undead came in the storyline at 1, (most) were not animated on purpose(IIRC). There were some circumstances, but they basically had free will, like the risen nowaday Archons, and were not under Necromancer Control.

    While a Necromancer usually remebers what Sci-Fi AI-creators forget: The Obedience Module. They’re basically puppets without a free will, and therefore, should have no alignment.

    About Grimber Ambule, the writer of Shadow Puppets, the name of his book already suggests his undead have no free will. Now, since he calls life a lie(Bone Dragon Lore), he is likely to be evil-aligned, but that doesn’t mean all Necromancers are.

    Also, AoW2 introduced 2 more Death Magic users: Arachna and Meandor, and neither of those show “The will to erase all life”. Arachna in particular cares only for the Dark Elves, and only for as long as they worship her, but Meandor even employs Death Magic for good purposes, like defeating Emporer Phobius, and preventing him from handing the world to All-Devourer on a silver platter.

    Speaking of All-Devourer, he’s a full Death Wizard too. He wants not to kill, but to enslave all non-shadow demons, and is not seen using undead IIRC.

    And how about strong willed(immune to Spirit damage) Spirits animating the Armor of ancient Heroes and Kings(instead of their corpses) holy warrioring crusaders back?
    Maybe give them martial arts instead of shield in order to not make them just reverse Crusaders.

    I really like this idea, just like the Ancestral Spirits.(Who are basically Spirit Phantasm Warriors + ). However, I wouldn’t know how to implement them in a necromancer class.

    #126830

    Fogcrow
    Member

    I´d give the necromancer two mutually exclusive branches for T3 and T4 class Units, with this guys being the T3 of the “controllable branch”, and Dread Reapers being the T4 for the branch for Necromancers who have adopted the “erase all life” idea.

    For to me a Dread Reaper is the ultimate incarnation of “erase all life”-Death Magic, and so strong, that a non-circle-wizard-necromancer might be able to summon it at the pinnacle of his power, but there´s no way he could control it, especially not more than one.

    #126859

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Speaking of All-Devourer, he’s a full Death Wizard too. He wants not to kill, but to enslave all non-shadow demons, and is not seen using undead IIRC.

    Technically speaking, it was 4 Death, 1 Earth, and 1 Fire. Short of a specific demony class, though, I’d probably represent it as a necromancer with Fire, Earth and Destruction Adept.

    #126875

    Gloweye
    Member

    Technically speaking, it was 4 Death, 1 Earth, and 1 Fire.

    He was? My bad.

    I still kinda miss Death Magic, and I dare hope against better knowledge that it will come back..

    #126881

    amicuslunae
    Member

    Hello everyone, let me share some thoughts.

    First of all, is a transformation of the necromancer empire population to undead really totally inevitable?
    Why cannot this empire be populated by living races, who have a habit of using undead as slaves?
    Exploiting the dead to make the life of the living easier may be considered among them not more amoral than exhausting nature for the same purpose, like in dreadnought empires.

    Consider this variant of getting undead units:
    A special city spell, which surrounds a target caster’s city with graveyards,
    and enables recruiting undead/vampire variants of racial units, in dependence on the overall development state of the city (racial/class buildings).
    A slight reduction in population may take place, but the happiness level still stays high, as it is now undead who do all the hard work and go to war instead of the living.
    When the city is conquered, the spell disappears, and so another class players do not get access to the undead units.

    There may be also an opposite variant of this spell, such as:
    surrounds an enemy city by graveyards, causes severe reduction in population and happiness, causes independent undead troops to appear from time to time close to the city until dispelled.

    I would also appreciate an opportunity to create some sort of outposts (suggested denomination: “necropolis”), functioning as dwellings and enabling recruiting undead/vampire units.
    An empire upgrade might allow to build them/turn conquered cities into them, or maybe just a global spell would do.
    In these dwellings there would already be no place for the living – only for the undead. The units produced there would preserve no trace of racial features anymore, they would be clear zombies/skeletons/vampires/ghosts.

    However, the idea of turning all of the empire cities into such dwellings would be not so great, because without racial cities you could not get access to high-level class building and to high-level necromancer class units (so, the dwelling units should be restricted to level III, I suppose). Also the dwellings produce less and do not grow like cities.
    Of course, such dwellings, when conquered, could be used by enemies as well. Or migrated (or as a variant: destroyed and then rebuilt as racial cities? No one except necromancer supporters would possibly like the idea of settling down in a necropolis).

    These were just some ideas. I do not doubt that you will create something really worthy as you always do, even if you don’t consider them.
    So, I wish you good luck and success with this necro class challenge!)

    P.S. Maybe it would be also reasonable to have a separate vampire dwelling (not necessarily connected to the necromancer class) with female vampires with seduction and mighty vampire lords with domination and some ability to turn killed enemy units into low-class vampires. Maybe they could also turn into a swarm of bats in order to strike one or more enemy units from a distance and then get back to their position (this would be impressive!).

    #126942

    gholin
    Member

    I definitely want to see vampires in this expansion. The way class/race dichotomy is set up, they’d be a perfect fit. You got Orc Vampires, Goblin Vampires, Elf Vampires, halfing vampires 🙂 etc., just like the other class units. amicuslunae mentioned a vampire dwelling with two tiers of vampires. I like that idea as well. Vampire Lords and Seductresses are cool ideas. Vampire mansions/castles, anyone?

    As for the Necromancer, I think a mixture of Resurgence effects and Raise Dead effects (like you see in dwellings) might be nice. When your elf union guard die, for instance, they raise into skeletons. Perhaps each tier of racial unit raises into a more powerful racial undead unit upon dead. And for a mana cost, units can “volunteer” to become their undead counterparts. Sounds insidious!

    Maybe you can also get spells that wither lands, raise dead heroes, summon undead units, and cause death and curse effects. As a necromancer, I really want to feel like a scourge of the land, or a noble master of the dead.

    I think undead units should have no morale effects as both a penalty and advantage.

    Finally, I really hope this is not the last expansion, or if it is, you bring one more race to the table to go along with the necromancer.Frostlings seem cold enough, and give us a much needed Ice race to mirror Draconians. Lizardmen would be kinda cool too. I’d also like to see more fantasy horror monster unit, like werewolves, and maybe gothic horror tilesets (Might be asking much ha ha).

    Either way, you have our support! Age of Wonders 3 is amazing! Please keep it up as long as you can. Your fans will eat up your expansions!

    #126999

    Kaiosama TLJ
    Member

    Wonder if it’s not too late for more suggestions. And wonder if this will not scare people out because I will “dump” here lots of “rough” stats.

    Looking back at all the pages and ideas on this thread made me brainstorm a lot of ideas to maybe make the Necromancer appeal for both groups of people in this thread.

    The basic idea is that there would be 2 upgrades in the same vein of the Archdruid Prefered Enemy upgardes: one will be called Reaper’s Oath and the other Warden’s Oath. Reaper’s Oath would take you to the classic AoW1 Pure Evil Undead mentality and to unleash the plague of undeath while Warden’s Oath would take you to a more flexible and controlled type of Necromancer, that uses both Undead and living and can be of any aligment. Also, independent of what kind of necro you want to be the class will have an unique line-up of Undead, and the Ultimate Global will be different depending of the choice of Oath.

    Names in italic in the next lists are skills that I made up.

    Unit line-up research:

    1 – Basic animation (Empire Upgrade) – Learns the basic of necromancy by animating corpses into souless puppets. Enables the production of Zombies in cities with a Necromancer’s Catacomb and gives Heroes the skill Animation Ritual.

    Zombie:

    – Tier I; Cost: 60 Mana; Upkeep: 2 Mana

    – Base Stats: 45-55 Hit Points, 28 Movement, 11-13 Defense, 6-7 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (5-7 Physical, 3-5 Blight), Ethereal Sustain, Irregular, Undead, Volunteer, Slow, Basic Racial Modifiers, Resurgence (Bronze), Walking, Evolve (Ghoul), Negated Atmosphere

    New skill notes:

    Animation Ritual – All enemy and friendly units from a playabe race that died on combat are ressurected as Zombies if the player is victorious.
    Ethereal Sustain – Upkeep of this unit is paid in Mana instead of Gold.
    Slow – This unit has -8 Movement Points in Tactical Combat
    Negated Atmosphere (didn’t had creativity for a better name) – This unit is no longer affected by racial Morale penalties and bonuses from terrain and climate.

    Overall note: The Zombie appearance is of, well… What you would expect of a Zombie. 😀 A rotting corpse with no weapons and ragged clothes, this unit would be the more than the necro’s “zergling”, the Zombie will have other uses that I will describe later.

    2 – Produce Ebony Blade (Empire Upgrade) – Enables the production of Ebony Blades in cities with a Necromancer’s Catacomb.

    Ebony Blade:

    – Tier I; Cost: 30 Gold, 60 Mana; Upkeep: 4 Mana

    – Base Stats: 45-55 Hit Points, 28 Movement, 11-13 Defense, 8-9 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (11-15 Physical), Ethereal Sustain, Infantry, Undead, Basic Racial Modifiers, Armored, Overwhelm (Bronze), Projectile Resistance, Negated Atmosphere, Walking, Shield, Unholy Champion (Gold)

    Note: This would be the first of 4 skeleton-type soldiers the necro would be able to produce. They would be kind of Tier 1.5 and their appearance would be of a mummified skeleton of one of the races wearing black armor, and this one is an infantry that has an big black sword (hence the name) and a black shield.

    3 – Produce Marrow Head (Empire Upgrade) – Enables the production of Marrow Heads in cities with a Necromancer’s Catacomb.

    Marrow Head:

    – Tier I; Cost: 40 Gold, 80 Mana; Upkeep: 4 Mana

    – Base Stats: 35-45 Hit Points, 28 Movement, 9-11 Defense, 8-9 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (6 Physical), Shoot Bow (6 Physical, 2-4 Frost, 2-4 Blight), Ethereal Sustain, Archer, Undead, Basic Racial Modifiers, Walking, Armored, Projectile Resistance, Negated Atmosphere, Inflict Exhausting Fatigue (Bronze), Unholy Champion (Gold)

    Note: Belive it or not, the puny name was not intentional. 😀 Same drill as the other one, except this one is armed with a bow that shoots enchanted arrows. Combining Frost and Blight is what I could get close of Death Strike from old AoW.

    4 – Produce Vile Impaler (Empire Upgrade) – Enables the production of Vile Impalers in cities with a Necromancer’s Catacomb.

    Vile Impaler:

    – Tier I; Cost: 30 Gold, 60 Mana; Upkeep: 4 Mana

    – Base Stats: 45-55 Hit Points, 28 Movement, 11-13 Defense, 8-9 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (12-16 Physical), Pikeman, Ethereal Sustain, Undead, Basic Racial Modifiers, Walking, Armored, Projectile Resistance, Negated Atmosphere, Armor Piercing, Inflict Bleeding Wounds (Bronze), Unholy Champion (Gold)

    Note: Same thing, but with a black polearm this time.

    5 – Produce Pale Rider (Empire Upgrade) – Enables the production of Pale Riders in cities with a Necromancer’s Catacomb.

    Pale Rider:

    – Tier II; Cost: 40 Gold, 80 Mana; Upkeep: 8 Mana

    – Base Stats: 55-75 Hit Points, 36 Movement, 12-14 Defense, 9-10 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (8 Physical, 2-4 Blight, 2-4 Frost), Cavalry, Ethereal Sustain, Undead, Basic Racial Modifiers, Walking, Armored, Projectile Resistance, Negated Atmosphere, Death Charge, Pass Wall (Bronze), Unholy Champion (Gold)

    New skill notes:

    Death Charge – Causes Weakened on target when using the Charge attack.

    Note: This is the last one of them, and this one is mounted in a zombified version of the racial mount. And this is also the last unit that you would adquire by production.

    6 – Forced Mutation (Strategic Spell) – Forces the mutation process of a Zombie with a sacrifice of 2 Zombie units to create a Ghoul.

    Ghoul:

    – Tier III; Cost: 2 Zombie Units and 80 Mana from the spell; Upkeep: 16 Mana

    – Base Stats: 60-90 Hit Points, 28 Movement, 12-14 Defense, 10-11 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (11-13 Physical, 5-7 Blight), Ethereal Sustain, Irregular, Monster, Undead, Inflict Zombie Venom, Inflict Noxious Vulnerability, Walking, Life Steal (Bronze), Inflict Severely Poisoned (Gold)

    New Skill notes:

    Inflict Zombie Venom – Every melee and ranged attack has a chance to apply Zombie Venom on the victim. Zombie Venom lasts for 5 turns and deals 2 Blight Damage every turn, and if the target dies with ZV it will raise as a Zombie under the player’s control in the next turn. Only units that belong to a specific race and that not are Undead already can be affected by ZV. (one additional note, the Zombies created by this method are not combat summons, they will last even after combat)

    Note: The Ghoul is a evolved Zombie, but it mutated to the point that you can’t recognize what race it was anymore, so there’s no racial traits here. The appearance is of a rotting humanoid beast with giant claws.

    7 – Create Bone Horror (Strategic Spell) – Mend bones into a hulking monstruosity. Sacrifice 4 Zombie units or 800 Population of a city to create a Bone Horror. Using population will also give you -50 Evil points.

    Bone Horror:

    – Tier III; Cost: 4 Zombie units or 800 Population, and 100 Mana from the spell; Upkeep: 16 Mana

    – Base Stats: 80-110 Hit Points, 36 Movement, 12-14 Defense, 10-11 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (20-4 Physical), Walking, Undead, Ethereal Sustain, Monster, Wall Crushing, Projectile Resistance, Inflict Crippling Wounds, Fearsome (Bronze), Regrowth (Gold)

    Note: Do I need to say how this thing look like?

    8 – Create Dread Reaper (Strategic Spell) – Mend bodies to shape a creature that’s the incarnation of Death. Sacrifice 6 Zombies or 1200 Population of a city to create a Dread Reaper. Using population will also give you -100 Evil points.

    Dread Reaper:

    – Tier IV; Cost: 6 Zombie units or 1200 Population, and 220 Mana from the spell; Upkeep: 32 Mana

    – Base Stats: 85-125 Hit Points, 36 Movement, 11-13 Defense, 13-14 Resistance

    – Abilities: Melee Strike (16 physical, 4-6 Frost, 4-6 Blight), Flying, Undead, Ethereal Sustain, Support, Monster, Throw Curse, Life Steal, Cause Fear, Projectile Resistance, Mind Control Immunity, Brain Rot, Charge, Death Charge, Control Undead, Fearsome (Bronze), Unholy Champion (Gold)

    Note: And here we are! Actually I’m don’t know exactly what role this unit could be, but seeing the stats of it on AoW:SM the best I could think of it of an Melee Support that’s not squishy.

    Buildings:

    Necromancer’s Catacomb – Tier I class building. Enables the production of Zombies, Ebony Blades, Marrow Heads, Vile Impalers and Pale Riders once they are researched.

    Ebony Tower – Tier II class building. All Undead units garrisoned in the city regenerate 6 Hit Points per turn.

    Reaper’s Altar – Tier III class building. Increase Mana production of the city by 10%.

    Possible Empire Upgrades:

    Gravekeepers – All Support units gain Heal Undead and Animate Dead.

    New skill note: Animate Dead – Medium Range; can be used once in battle; Raise racial corpse into a Zombie under the player’s control. The Zombie is not a combat summon and will last even after combat. (The Necromancer can also get this ability as a Hero upgrade)

    Reaper’s Oath – For you life is nothing but a great lie, and you will stop at nothing to let the unliving loose. Corrupt all your followers with evil spirits, all produced units in cities gain Undead and Dedicated to Evil, and cities suffer no happiness penalty or bonus from terrain. Researching this will give you permanent 400 Evil Points and you will not be able to research Warden’s Oath.

    Dark Heralds – Your Heroes become powerful Undead themselves. All Heroes gain Undead, Dedicated to Evil, Control Undead, Cause Fear, Mind Control Immunity and Unholy Champion. This is only available if you researched Reaper’s Oath.

    Warden’s Oath – For you the Undead are great soldiers, but you also recognize their weaknesses and the risks necromancy can lead to your empire, and you will cope with them and keep control, either for your own ambitions or for your people sake. All Undead units produced or created by other means gain 1 medal. Researching this will not make you able to research Reaper’s Oath.

    Undying Resolve – You followers pride is so great that allows them to cheat death for a brief moment before their final rest. All non-undead racial units will ressurect 1 turn after they are killed in combat with Undead and Mind Control Immunity until the end of combat. This is only available if you researched Warden’s Oath.

    Possible Spells:

    Death Ray (combat spell) – Deals 7 Blight and 7 Frost damage to a single unit in combat.

    Corpse Frenzy (combat spell) – Overcharge a Zombie with dark energy, granting +12 Movement, Mind Control Immunity, Overwhelm and Explosive Death until the end of combat.

    Animate Ruins (strategic spell) – Rebuilds target ruins as an Animated City. Animated Cities works similar to Dwellings and will have their own building line-up, and can only produce Undead units that you already researched.

    Omen of Death (combat enchantment) – Strike the hearts of you enemies with their worst fear, all enemy units receive -200 morale and are Cursed. Does not affect Undead and Machine units.

    Vampiric Weapons (global Enchantment) – All Infantry, Archer, Pikemen and Cavalry units gain Life Steal. (even living ones)

    Corpse Explosion (combat spell) – Explodes a corpse, dealing 8 Blight and 12 Fire damage to all units in a 1 hex radius area around it. If a unit is in the center of the explosion it will receive an extra 2 Blight and 4 Fire damage.

    Army of Darkness (global enchantment) – Unleash a torrent of restless walking corpses. Reduce the production cost of all Undead units in 20%, and all Undead units gain Tireless, Regeneration and Ressurgence. This is only available if you researched Reaper’s Oath.

    Undying Champions (global enchantment) – The spirits grant inspiration for Undead and Living alike. All units gain Strong Will, +300 Morale, Fast Healing and Ressurgence. This is only available if you researched Warden’s Oath.

    #127008

    I recently got the secret spell Greater raise dead which resurrects a random one of the caster’s unit at the end of every combat, as it was before, i.e. not a skeletal version.

    This definitely needs to be a Necromancer skill.

    #127093

    Gloweye
    Member

    Isn’t that Greater Reawakening? The same spell as there is when you attack a Shrine of the Guardian Angel?

    Maybe not, that one does it on every combat round…

    IMO, the Necromancer’s spells that raise dead should raise Undead..while it might fit the “mastery over life and death” necro’s have, I think I’d still prefer it to be Undead only. ressurecting them as before sounds more like a Creation Master/Theocrat spell.

    #127133

    Demiurgus
    Member

    My wish list on how to handle undead.

    1. No Moral: they are undead they shouldn’t get moral bonus, no crits etc.

    2. Debuff Creatures: for me personally undeads should be REALLY scary. There should be 2 things considered
    a) Undeads are Scary so fighting against those should lower moral of recruts units.
    b) it is scarier to fight against an undead of your own race (possible family members & friends) than other races. and for b… well im an rp’ler myself so i would like to see if 2 units where in the same group, then the hero decide to split them and they would encounter an necromancer who manages to kill and raise them. if the new rising undead would fight the units he where split from they should get a real big moral loss 😛

    3. The Power of the Undead: in my opinion the core of Necromancer is the raised dead… so i would like that undeads are quantity over quality. if a necromancer hero lvl up there should be a skill that raises automatically enemy units after battle with a certain chance dependent on how they died. So if a dragon BURNS all of them well no corpses are left. But if they fell under an equal or less they should rise again with a propability of 50-60% as Undead version. Now as i said undeads should be very weak exept for the class specifics. i imagine like some considert before that normal units in town are undead if u raise the city or transform it with like Raze ability. So undeads t1 and t2 should be weak in points of attack and def but should have more HP and alot of debuffs like moral debuffs as stated before.

    4. Fighting style of the undead: as mentioned earlier Undead should have tons of debuffs and special abilitys in contrast to their weak stats. some should have (or at higher level) to raise themself if not properly destroyed. some should cause fear. some should be immune or resistance to arrow attacks. No internal organs means every stab attack like pike or arrows are kinda useless against them. axes could be stronger. The class units could be stuff like Lichs and skeleton dragons or even spectral dragons where at last Power is combined with the undead debuff and resistance abilities. Maybe even dragons can rise the dead. i personally don’t like the idea of Vampires because the depicted undead are mind less creatures with no other will than to serve there master and bring death over all. Vampires on the other hand depicted in previous AoW renditions showed to much of an personality. life leach and other seductive abilities can be part of other more ghost like creatures as well. GHOST on the other hand is a must have for me 😛

    5. Good Necromancer: Good necromancers could a special class building where undeads are used to increase productivity of a city greatly. Maybe they could be much better healer. raising the dead could also give you the ability to add the population of an destroyed city to one of your owns or split them equally under your own town. I believe being able to produce much faster is = to your normal units transform into weak undead with debuff abilitys and unability to get crits. But it could be boring though… someone else has a better plan i guess ^^.

    6. Hero Resurection: a must have! Give them those undeads pros and cons and a loss in level. It should also work on enemy heros and even leaders. make it really expansive

    7.Maybe a new Resource: okay… i kinda like this idea even if this cripples my playstyle a little. i don’t know myself how it affect the towns etc. BUT. it could be really cool and unique. Corpses or bones or flesh. Call it what you want but the ability to Raise the undead Requiers… well dead. Maybe it could be a tough decision spend 1 Corpse on an Undead Melee Unit if you could save corpses for an giant T4 monstrosity Dragon or whatever. the class building could be a building that generates corpses. and u can collect them through battle. maybe there could be a vehicle that collects them more efficiently which can also spawn in battle those corpses for your priests/necromancers/lich’s to raise them. the necromancer could have as a high tier spell that he can creates t4 units in battle if enough corpses are nearby. this could also give battle strategies a new level in positioning your units.

    I could ramble for thousand more years about that. i hope my point is clear 😀
    -Let them be RAISE undead not summon them in world and in battle.
    -Let them be real Undead with undead skills. Let them be scary imagine u should slash a fiend plaque filled and possible infectious
    -Give a reasonable option to be a good Necros (even though not my preferred playing style:D)
    -be creative and continue to be the best game company in the world
    … seriously guys what you did main game and with golden realm… DAY 1 discount + friends don’t have to buy it… seriously xD u are the first humane industry… i love u… for real xD (FAN-BOY SCREAM)

    This said AoW Shadow magic used to be my favorite game of all times and now its AOW 3 by FAR.

    Keep it up.
    Demiurgus

    #127138

    Demiurgus
    Member

    @Kaiosama TLJ
    Red your post after i posted mine… it seems we have pretty much the same expectations for the undead “Race” 😀

    I only don’t like that dread Reaper thing, because the incarnation of Death Seems a bit too godlike to have 3-4 times in ur army…( + I really like undead dragons and spectral dragons).

    Actually the only way i could agree with this concept would be a Hero type unit. Imagine an new “Class” of hero. Really OP and only 1 could be casted at the same time, with huge Mana upkeep costs. maybe he gets the undead trait that he cant recover health but has a lot of it. 😛

    well don’t mind me i’m just dreaming over here ^^

    #127254

    FrozenHoth
    Member

    1st post ever, and I scrolled through all previous post to only respond to the original Dev Update. No offense intended other posters, and apologies if this subject has been discussed.
    The Necromancer art work looks good. I’m hoping you go with a few options though. Like robes, and dark plate armor, you know? Also the female with a staff looked very cool. Maybe expand on that(scrolls/tomes/wands) for theocrats/necromancers, etc… in the character/edit accessory tab?

    I can’t wait to see a preview of this new class!

    errr, p.s. Is it a new Race or Class?

    #127259

    Gloweye
    Member

    errr, p.s. Is it a new Race or Class?

    The thread’s name is “dev-journal-necromancer-class-design”

    What would be your guess?

    #127389

    While I do agree that a necromancer class would be well-suited to make a decision, I think exclusive researches like many here suggest are a bad way to implement that. At least under the current research system such a design could easily end up with a map that pushes the player one direction and the fitting research simply not showing up.
    And if that one adds dedication to the undead, the player has to choose between being locked out of part of the class or deserting armies.

    #127959

    Meeky
    Member

    It’s probably a good thing we don’t have undead as a race. If they were a race, I’d make an Undead Rogue, spam Bards and listen to this every day:

    #128130

    Kaiosama TLJ
    Member

    While I do agree that a necromancer class would be well-suited to make a decision, I think exclusive researches like many here suggest are a bad way to implement that. At least under the current research system such a design could easily end up with a map that pushes the player one direction and the fitting research simply not showing up.
    And if that one adds dedication to the undead, the player has to choose between being locked out of part of the class or deserting armies.

    You have a good point, but considering that certain researchs like Seafaring and Units are 100% guaranteed, maybe we can make an exception like this for these paths.

    It’s probably a good thing we don’t have undead as a race. If they were a race, I’d make an Undead Rogue, spam Bards and listen to this every day:

    (…)

    Wouldn’t be this music instead:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOtEdhKOMgQ

    #128171

    You have a good point, but considering that certain researchs like Seafaring and Units are 100% guaranteed, maybe we can make an exception like this for these paths.

    True, but this adds another difficulty. Seafaring and unit/CP research is a comitting one research slot of 12 for it. As the Necromancer has all those assumedly too, adding two more mutually exclusive researches would limit the “random” slots for all the potentially more important for the early game researches to 7 for the necromancer. And when you want to dig for specific spells, that is very limiting or pushes the necro to make his alignment/style decision very early.
    Similarly incorporating it into class-unit research would lead to a certain step where the necro gets his spellbook jumbled and blocks him from advanced class option until he makes the decision.

    Both options are rather suboptimal as it makes the choice a potential burden and can impair the classes playstyle in tricky situations.

    #128172

    fantasyindi
    Member

    WOW! great new!

    I want a lot of expansions please !!!!

    Personnaly, i’m interested by a new dreadnought’s campagn with new ennemis races and class 🙂

    By my think, it’s a ggod idea if we have some campagn missions with different compagnons :humans machinist, elf…and a different main heros and class by mission, human dreadnought, elf rogue…

    Thank you for the GREAT work!

    #128292

    Hellspirit
    Member

    Hello there and i’m exited for this class,but please,can u give us forge so we make those cool ittems like in aow 2,pls it was so awesome,i was spending so much time maching the awesome icons of my gear,so if u can,consider this.

    #128298

    Gloweye
    Member

    Hello there and i’m exited for this class,but please,can u give us forge so we make those cool ittems like in aow 2,pls it was so awesome,i was spending so much time maching the awesome icons of my gear,so if u can,consider this.

    Item forge is in there….just not in the campaign. They did shave a little bit of OP-ness off it, but there’s still more than enough to go around.

    #128410

    Hellspirit
    Member

    Thanks for the information,i played only campaign so i didn’t know that,btw,can i change the icon of the ittem i create?

Viewing 30 posts - 181 through 210 (of 216 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.