Dev Journal: New Race Upgrade System

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: New Race Upgrade System

This topic contains 129 replies, has 69 voices, and was last updated by  Sartarius 4 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 91 through 120 (of 130 total)
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  • #144693

    Lannister
    Member

    Exciting times ahead. Race importance is exactly what is missing, however making each race equally viable in a balance sense will be more important than ever now that we can specialize in a single race and some races are clearly better than others(Draconian), anyway best news so far and that is saying alot considering all the new stuff.

    #144764

    Jaduggar
    Member

    some races are clearly better than others(Draconian)

    The problem with statements like this… is that every time I hear it spoken, a different race is used as the example. If you had asked me, I would have said that humans were clearly the weakest and that dracs were among the strongest. I have heard this so many times now, that I think every race is considered underpowered by somebody.

    #144787

    Hunter
    Member

    What happens to the race overview panel in the diplomacy interface when a leader gets the ‘research everything’ perk and gets two more picks?

    #144790

    The rewards should be game changing.

    Errr…the Dwarven crossbow you used as an example is the very first racial upgrade. That means it is the most reliable one, ergo it should NOT be a huge thing.

    The diety/deity (btw, this may be a case of fielty/fealty) ones are supposed to be game changing.

    #144803

    llfoso
    Member

    Just had a thought…goblin upgrade that gives untouchables a suicide bomb attack. That would bring back the bomber without needing a new unit.

    Abilites like that for racial units coming from these upgrades would be cool, stuff beyond +2s and +3s.

    #144911

    Gloweye
    Member

    Or just the goblin one enabling the Bomber to be build. Explosive Death, and an additional amount of damage on Self Destruct.

    #145004

    llfoso
    Member

    Adding a new unit is far more complicated. Giving an existing unit a new ability is a more elegant solution. The upgrade could always include a name change and adding powder kegs to the unit model.

    #145181

    Gloweye
    Member

    Adding a new unit is NOT complicated – its the new model that is. On top of that, the Bomber is such an old classic that it pretty much belongs in the game. This is the bonus unit the goblins had in AoW2 where other races had no unit at all. The goblin roster was just 1 unit larger.

    #145213

    Zorrino
    Member

    Adding a new unit is NOT complicated – its the new model that is. On top of that, the Bomber is such an old classic that it pretty much belongs in the game. This is the bonus unit the goblins had in AoW2 where other races had no unit at all. The goblin roster was just 1 unit larger.

    With that in mind i think it would be cool to maybe give the Goblins the unique ability to have more units to chose from than other races if we have Empire/Military race upgrades. =)

    Or maybe give the Goblins the Military upgrade to be able to hold more units into an army rather than just 6, maybe it can go up to 8 or 10 further down the Military upgrade tree, depending on which one you chose, (Empire/Military). =D On that note, the other races out there should have something special and unique to them as well in either or both the Empire/Military upgrade for balance purposes. =D

    #145238

    Teehon
    Member

    Adding a new unit is NOT complicated – its the new model that is. On top of that, the Bomber is such an old classic that it pretty much belongs in the game. This is the bonus unit the goblins had in AoW2 where other races had no unit at all. The goblin roster was just 1 unit larger.

    But what if… But what if…

    ALL RACES GOT ADDITIONAL UNIT THROUGH RACE COMMAND?!

    I think it might turn out awesome! (It can even be a tier 4 for the 5th level of Race Command!) I know it’s obviously a lot of work, but for another DLC/Expansion it could be awesome.

    Also, it would be awesome to have additional ways of increasing race experience – for example building/repopulating existing units.

    Errr…the Dwarven crossbow you used as an example is the very first racial upgrade. That means it is the most reliable one, ergo it should NOT be a huge thing.

    The diety/deity (btw, this may be a case of fielty/fealty) ones are supposed to be game changing.

    If I got it correctly, level one would normally unlock around the turn 20 – by that time tier 2 and 3 dominate the game already.

    EDIT: God am I tired after the first post-Weihnachten working day.. Used the word “Awesome” three times in a row.

    #145272

    Gorgoh
    Member

    Overall, great stuff – I really like the direction in which it’s headed.

    Race Command will unlock race specific bonuses as you spend more time with cities of that race in your empire.

    When I read that sentence the concept seemed a little off, but purely based on the (probably placeholder) name. Not sure XP fits here either, but yeah that totally works for just testing the whole thing out. Many people liked racial governance. I see it as a solid improvement, but I’m not convinced the concept has to be seen from the perspective of the leader.

    I like the injection of role playing elements wherever it fits, but at the same time it is a game of empires (first and foremost). So in this case I think I’d prefer to have the empty bucket fill from the perspective of the race instead.

    Rather than command / governance / XP, perhaps a something more in this direction:

    Racial population (quantity) multiplied by racial happiness (quality) translates into an overall level of racial support, as measured by the accumulation of Support Points, or SP. When you get enough SP, that race recognizes your patronage with… (stuff). High levels of racial support can be game changing, opening up more and more powerful abilities with which to crush your foes.

    [Oh and can we please preserve usage of the word “Command” for this approach?(haha, sorry): http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/commanders-in-charge-of-army-stacks/ ]

    #145290

    Hunter
    Member

    Yes, racial support sounds about right.

    #145305

    Teehon
    Member

    Agree! Sounds very fitting.

    #145310

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Support already has a pretty specific meaning in AoW3 though, referring to a specific class of units (Of which there are Racial ones).

    Racial Governance covers the essentials of it without sounding like another feature.

    #145312

    Mourioche
    Member

    Could be something good, or not… depending of these race bonus.
    I trust triumph to make something good (because others adds to this game where good, and the game too)
    Wait and see…

    #145318

    Gorgoh
    Member

    Support already has a pretty specific meaning in AoW3 though, referring to a specific class of units (Of which there are Racial ones).

    Fair enough… Then how about Racial Following. You acquire followers, who eventually worship you like a living God. (You rise in stature with the Draconians in much the same way Yaka did with the Tigrans.)

    So you think to yourself, “Man I’ve got a great following with the Frostlings (Dwarves, Elves) right now – those guys love me!” And who doesn’t want to be loved?

    You can’t really do the same with Governance. “I’m really governing the crap out of those Orcs.” Besides, for me “governance” brings to mind legislatures and parliaments, and most of the time we’re playing the game like raving lunatics and despots.

    #145320

    um, the tier 5 upgrades are pretty amazing (I can’t tell you about them that have not been revealed), so I think everyone will be quite happy.

    #145571

    Zorrino
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ravenholme wrote:</div>
    Support already has a pretty specific meaning in AoW3 though, referring to a specific class of units (Of which there are Racial ones).

    Fair enough… Then how about Racial Following. You acquire followers, who eventually worship you like a living God. (You rise in stature with the Draconians in much the same way Yaka did with the Tigrans.)

    So you think to yourself, “Man I’ve got a great following with the Frostlings (Dwarves, Elves) right now – those guys love me!” And who doesn’t want to be loved?

    You can’t really do the same with Governance. “I’m really governing the crap out of those Orcs.” Besides, for me “governance” brings to mind legislatures and parliaments, and most of the time we’re playing the game like raving lunatics and despots.

    Just as a curiosity why call it “racial” at all? Why not just Governance, or just plain old Followers? I like both sounds of it, what I’m trying to say is that, “racial” should have a subtle approach to it, making it sound better and awesome.

    While we are on that topic about Empire/Governator type of subject, why not have a government system to chose from? For instance I have a Goblin tyranny Empire, or maybe even add in if I dare say a Human Democrat society, I mean I’m sure we can all come up with cool sounding empire titles, like “The Great Republic of Elves”. =D Having government titles in this game I think would make an interesting twist towards Independents, Brigand camps, Alignments towards each other. I think the whole empire titles should be purely customizable, you chose your bonuses and disadvantages, then onto choosing an awesome title for your Empire, I mean whats an empire building game without a government system involved?

    #145585

    Racial because it is designed to affect units/cities of that race?

    #145609

    Ravenholme
    Member

    um, the tier 5 upgrades are pretty amazing (I can’t tell you about them that have not been revealed), so I think everyone will be quite happy.

    Well, Chryso, thanks for the information that elements of this stuff have been revealed more fully to the Beta Testers – That is actually pretty reassuring.

    #145669

    Hulahn
    Member

    They just keep surprising and amazing me, this is awesome! They’ve taken a game which I was pretty excited about in the beginning, and made it so much more, when I would have just been happy with a bit of balancing and bug fixing.

    Keep it up, Triumph! I can’t wait to see the final product!!

    #145706

    Lannister
    Member

    If you had asked me, I would have said that humans were clearly the weakest and that dracs were among the strongest.

    I think the majority of players familiar with the game would rank draconian high on their lists. clearly(yes) better than some races, of course im talking about multiplayer balance or the default terrain settings, in singleplayer you can even make the human that you rightfully imho referred to as weaker become exceptionally strong, just by tailoring the settings to the race (lots of sea, no volcanic etc) Anyway guessing we’re going to see changes in this DLC for the better concerning races. But a reminder is good nonetheless since updates do take time to come out and it would be less ideal if there still were some power gaps between races after this update went live with race specialisation.

    #145896

    luna-yielder
    Member

    Very interesting change.

    #145928

    llfoso
    Member

    Well, humans are certainly the strongest on island maps, but I could also make a volcanic only map where draconians are the only viable option. Or a blight only map where goblins are the only option. People just don’t play island maps often and large seas don’t generate too often on regular maps.

    I’m really waiting to see what the new patch has in store for humans. I like the way triumph made them the water race but they don’t have anything to offer on standard map settings.

    #146131

    Eomolch
    Member

    I think having good/evil/ nuetral verisons of all units would be a giant undertaking, that’s a massive amount of units, but if people want alignment to have more of an effect, I’d suggest a quest where after being nuetral, pure good, or pure evil for x amoiunt of turns straight you can access to an alignment based building, say the Temple of Light for Pure Good, the Temple of Twilight for Nuetral, and the the Temple of Darkness for Pure Evil each of which grants a small bonus to aligned units and allows you to Racial verison of Paladins, Monks, and Blackguards. So you run a Pure Good Empire and build a Temple of Light i a Frostling city you can build a Frostling Paladin, a Temple of Darkness in a halfling city would allow you to build Gollum, er I mean a Halfling Blackguard, a Temple of Twilight in an Elvish City would allow you to build sparkily vampires, oops I meant Monks.

    I really like that approach, though I would simplify it a little more by suggesting that those alignment units should essentialy work like class units, with all it’s consequences, namely mostly similar stats and abilities and a shared basic model. The idea behind this is simply that it largely reduces the amount of work that would be neccesary to implement this and therefore makes it a more realistic suggestion.

    In concrete this could mean something like this:

    Cities can build 3 different alignment buildings
    – Temple of Light when alignment is good or pure good
    – Temple of Twilight when alignment is neutral
    – Temple of Darkness when alignment is evil or pure evil

    These buildings could have an inherent effect (e.g. temple of darkness: support units produced in this city gain the ‘dedicated to evil’ trait, life stealing and +1 ranged damage, – 50 population growth) and additionaly unlock the production of up to two units, the first being a t2 unlocked at good/neutral/evil and the second being a t3 unlocked at pure good/pure evil alignment (so yes, Temple of Twilight only unlocks production of one unit, but that one wont have a ‘dedicated to ..’ trait, which is effectively a weakness). The buildings would become useless when alignment shifts to a different state and since you can only have one of them at a time, you would have to sell the old building before you can get a different temple (or there could be an option to transform an existing temple to the kind matching your current alignment (possibly with costs)).

    #146503

    Happy New Years to everyone!

    The new system looks amazing! I really missed racial relations! Basically since AoW2 as I did not like the system used there.

    How is the race relation calculated?
    I guess Buying and founding cities will help. But also the construction of buildings? Or maybe freeing cities that have been conquered by players having bad relations to that race.

    Will your treatment (hireing/slaying) of single units from inns/on sites also have an influence?

    Cannot wait to see it!

    #146551

    Backero
    Member

    Really cool stuff. It looks better then I imagined before. I hope the new dev blog will be today. What we can expect now?

    Necromancer units? All done
    Frostling units? All done
    New dwelling? We don’t know if there will be any this expansion.
    Necromancer spells/upgrades? Generally done
    Race upgrade system? Done
    Game via e-mail? THIS! Today or tomorrow i think.

    But I really hope for official announcement, with screenshots and any video 😀

    #146604

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Really cool stuff. It looks better then I imagined before. I hope the new dev blog will be today. What we can expect now?

    Necromancer units? All done<br>
    Frostling units? All done<br>
    New dwelling? We don’t know if there will be any this expansion.<br>
    Necromancer spells/upgrades? Generally done<br>
    Race upgrade system? Done<br>
    Game via e-mail? THIS! Today or tomorrow i think.

    But I really hope for official announcement, with screenshots and any video :D

    Pretty sure that Friday’s Dev Blog will be the Racial Relations system, then I suspect we’ll get one on PBEM or the New Specialisations, and then, hopefully, an actual announcement combined with a trailer/gameplay demo by Tombles. (So roughly end of Jan/Early Feb for the announcement)

    That fits quite nicely with how it was done with the Golden Realms, as I suspect the expansion will release end of February and into Early/Mid March.

    #146632

    Zorrino
    Member

    Has anyone else notice the first picture that there are good Necromancers. =D

    so it looks like they done it again nice job Triumph can’t wait to see what you did with the mechanics of how you made the Necromancer a good alignment. =D

    #146649

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Has anyone else notice the first picture that there are good Necromancers. =D

    so it looks like they done it again nice job Triumph can’t wait to see what you did with the mechanics of how you made the Necromancer a good alignment. =D

    General thoughts are – Ghoulifying a city filled with living inhabitants would be an evil act, razing a city to use the spell that rebuilds it as a ghoul city would be an evil act, however, using that spell to Ghoul a city that someone else razed would not be an evil act.

    Even the breeding pens aren’t inherently evil, if they living are treated well and are only ghouled upon a natural death, or agree to being turned into Ghouls upon death.

    So yeah, plenty of ways to headcanon a Good Necromancer with the toolset they’ve given, and I’m fairly sure that they won’t go into specifics to allow that to be the case.

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