Dev Journal: Tactical Combat Bonanza

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: Tactical Combat Bonanza

This topic contains 57 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  Tombles 6 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #35543

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    This week we’re going to have an in-depth look into the Age of Wonders III tactical combat mechanics. Tactical combat is one of the most important par
    [See the full post at: Dev Journal: Tactical Combat Bonanza]

    #35558

    Tombles is a notorious goblin fanboi, don’t listen to him.

    #35560

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    What was that? I couldn’t hear you over the sound of how awesome Goblins are :3

    #35574

    Wonderful read to get a bit more familiar with the options.

    One question:
    As far as I understand, a flanking attack gets a +2 damage for all damage channels.
    What is the rationale behind that?

    I am just asking because it feels a bit counterintuitive to me.
    It makes obviously sense that physical attacks make more damage because the defending unit was not fully aware of the attack, so the attacker can deliver more damage to unprotected parts, soldiers unaware of the attack and so on.
    But the effect of non-physical damage types could be seens as rather independent of orientation of the defending unit as they are normally (as far as I understand it) somehow side-effects of the physical attacks. Burning fire and poison usually doesn’t care if the victim is looking their way.
    Not sure how others see it, to me it feels somewhat illogical.

    #35577

    Zhukodim
    Member

    I like everything that I see. But it becomes harder to wait much harder. The longest month begins.

    #35578

    I like everything that I see. But it becomes harder to wait much harder. The longest month begins.

    Indeed! Thanks Tombles for this elaborate journal.

    #35579

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    One question:<br>
    As far as I understand, a flanking attack gets a +2 damage for all damage channels.<br>
    What is the rationale behind that?

    The main rationale is that some attacks don’t do physical damage, and we wanted all flanking attacks to get bonus damage.

    With what you’re saying, it’s kind of a weird one. If something spits poison at you, you can dodge a bit, or try and cover your face to reduce the damage. The same could be said for any attack really. With some things, like lightning, it makes less sense, and with others, like a fireball, it makes more sense.

    In the end, for consistency, it’s simpler just to add the extra damage to all channels.

    #35587

    Yeah, I see, thanks for the clarification, Tombles.
    Have to admit that I wasn’t aware or didn’t know that there are attacks that have NO physical damage at all, although it makes sense of course.

    For attacks where the non-physical damage part is a kind of side-effect of the physical attack, e.g. an attack with a fiery sword or a poisoned blade or something similar, the additional damage on both channels feels still a bit weird to me, but yeah, it depends on the attack in question and may as well be that my feeling is wrong here.

    #35589

    Melnerag
    Member

    Amazing. All the stuff I’ve loved from previous installments is there, and more on top too. Lovely.

    Some questions:

    1. If seven stacks engage each other in an epic battle (of doooom!), will all armies start on the sides of the map with one unfortunate one in the center, or will they be facing each other from the same side?

    2. Will the strategic side of the game be as amazing, deep and detailed as the tactical combat? *puppy eyes*
    -Saying no will give you 50 Evil Alignment-

    #35590

    @ StupendousMan,

    yeah this caught me out at first as well, and caused my physically immune leader to be ripped to pieces…

    #35600

    Fear the Goblins….

    #35647

    Motasa
    Member

    Thorough explanation on the game mechanics. Following on what StupendousMan said, will for example the Fairy Strike (with 3 ice, 3 fire and 3 lightning damage) practically double the damage output by adding +2 to each source of damage?

    Is it common for attacks to have say three or more types of damage; making some units extra strong when flanking?

    #35654

    vota dc
    Member

    So slowest units are usually 24 mp while fast are 36. This mean 4 square for slow and 6 for fast. In aow 1 you have goblins with 24, humans with 26, assassins with 28 and highmen with 30. Are there intermediate movement points like 26-28 or after 24 you have just 30? In that case what change? Same maximum movement but if you lose mp you will move the same?

    #35657

    Ice Age
    Member

    1. If seven stacks engage each other in an epic battle (of doooom!), will all armies start on the sides of the map with one unfortunate one in the center, or will they be facing each other from the same side?

    1.
    The adjacent hex rule works like that:
    The combat take place on the hex of the defending stack, which is always in the middle! All the stacks around the defending stack (one of them must be the attacker) are joining the battle in their appropriate position around the defending stack! So yes one stack is always in the middle.
    Except for siege battles! In sieges the adjacent hex rule works as well, but the defenders and attackers are facing each other, the defenders behind the walls and the attackers outside them.

    2.
    Yes.

    #35660

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Yes, the first shot from a fairy (which does 3 damage on 3 channels) will do 15 damage (3×5) against a unit with 10 resistance, if its flanking. The next two don’t get the bonus though.

    It is not common at all to attack on 3 damage channels at once, fairies do it, so do apprentices, maybe a couple of others.

    Due to how the damage system works, multi-channel damage attacks are at a disadvantage usually, since they do less damage against tough creatures. If I attack a unit with a resistance of 12, it’s better to do 20 fire damage, instead of 10 fire and 10 lightning. This helps balance it out.

    #35662

    Motasa
    Member

    Thanks for the clarification, Tombles. 🙂

    #35664

    Arlow
    Member

    i agree the wait is getting harder and harder, thank you for the update, lol at the filthy humans and noble goblins

    #35670

    albamar
    Member

    Good to read this new dev journal.

    There is a point, though, that it is not explained.
    I am referring to the purple hexes with a pair of arrows inside.

    I suppose that they are the way of putting in practice a let’s say… tactical retreat for units or even for leaving completely the battle.

    If any unit leaves the arena, will they remain with their party IF the combat is won and be lost, if not?
    Can you Tombles or any beta-testers explain a bit better this mechanic?

    Thanks in advance! 😉

    #35671

    Gamling
    Member

    Yes this will be awsome! I realy hope there will be a demo on steam soon. 🙂

    #35673

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    The hexes with the arrows inside are retreat hexes, if an attacking player moves a unit onto the hex, it will be removed from battle. Defenders cannot retreat. The retreating unit will be available for play in the world map, but will have all of its movepoints at zero, so it won’t be able to travel any further that turn.

    #35730

    11balanced
    Member

    Not to make the separate thread I’ll ask here:

    When the battle starts, the first turn belongs to defender, right? If it’s a siege, does the defender (in the 1st round) have an opportunity to place his forses anywhere inside the walls and can his archers shoot 3 times, as it was in AoW-2?

    #35746

    ZombieEater
    Member

    Very nice! Keeping the best of AoW SM while adding great new abilities! Fantastic design about getting the archers out of the opportunity attack danger.

    One big question though: When moving units a far distance in tactical combat, SM tended to ignore that some squares would expose them to opportunity attacks, while another path, or the exact same length would leave it unharmed. You would have to move your unit one hex at a time to coax them long the safe path.

    Would be nice if this can be addressed.

    #35771

    Not to make the separate thread I’ll ask here:

    When the battle starts, the first turn belongs to defender, right? If it’s a siege, does the defender (in the 1st round) have an opportunity to place his forses anywhere inside the walls and can his archers shoot 3 times, as it was in AoW-2?

    Not anywhere within the walls, but units get extra movement on the first turn, I believe an extra 50%…

    It has been a while since I had to defend a city :).

    #35782

    Haha Tombles and his Goblin fetish! How he wishes every day that he was born a Goblin…

    #35790

    I thought he was… isn’t that in his portrait a selfie?

    #35829

    elric
    Member

    I’m very happy about all of these changes. In the previous games, it was fairly easy to create overpowered heroes who could defeat multiple stacks of units with ease. Looks like these changes will restore sound strategy and tactics in to the gameplay.

    Questions: Are there 3 hexes which are considered “behind” the unit? Also, does going into ‘guard’ require one action point or 3?

    #35837

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Yes, the three hexes in front of a unit are where it can engage, the 3 behind it are where it can be flanked from.

    The whole thing works using a hidden system called “Awareness”. Units can engage and use attacks of opportunity on adjacent enemies that they are aware of. They can be flanked if attacked from any hex they are not aware of.

    One thing guarding does is make a unit aware of hexes in all directions, not just the ones in front of it. Being stunned causes a unit to not be aware of anything, so it can never engage, and is always flanked.

    Guarding only requires one action point, so a unit can move full distance and still guard.

    #35838

    nick_soule
    Member

    I have to say I do love this new combat system. I would like to know if you will be adding the feature to change the direction your unit is facing I.E. will your unit be able to pivot? From what I can tell when you move a unit it just kinda takes whatever direction. So I could see spending one movement point for a one side pivot. To me with this new combat system this could make or brake you. Any feed back on this would be great!

    #35844

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    You can rotate units, but the way the rules are currently set up, there’s almost no reason to. If you don’t do anything with a unit, then it enters guard mode automatically, so the direction it’s facing doesn’t matter. If you do tell it to attack, or something, it will end up facing it’s target, and you won’t be able to change that. The only exception is when a hero casts a spell, which doesn’t cause it to auto-rotate.

    #35871

    Jorlox
    Member

    I like the idea of rotating my little minions and arranging them into formation before sending them to their death. It will make their sacrifice for my empire seem worthwhile! >:)

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