Dev Journal: The Frostlings are Coming!

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: The Frostlings are Coming!

This topic contains 136 replies, has 63 voices, and was last updated by  Draxynnic 7 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 91 through 120 (of 137 total)
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  • #136801

    vota dc
    Member

    Seems more fast disembark than fast embarking, so I guess Frostlings won’t have the -4 mp to all units.

    #136803

    Motasa
    Member

    so I guess Frostlings won’t have the -4 mp to all units

    I recall the devs once mentioning they once opted to give the Dwarves reduced movement points, resulting in nobody wanting to play them any more. I don’t know where you got this idea from, but it seems extremely unlikely to me that they will have reduced movement points compared to everybody else.

    #136804

    Usana
    Member

    Back in AoWII the small folk(goblins, halflings, frostlings) all had 4 move less on their walkers(20 vs 24). In AoWI they had 2 less(24 vs 26). We are talking shambling zombie speed. So that is where the less movement idea comes from.

    Personally I would say we could incorporate that by giving the mammoths less than usual speed(say 28 base) but making them rather tanking otherwise. Basically a more extreme boar rider.

    #136806

    Zorrino
    Member

    I would say have the queen’s chariot pulled by bleak wargs and let the T2 Cav be a mammoth. Though such a large unit would feel a bit out of place at T2. That way you get both the wargs and the mammoths. I suppose you could have the chariot pulled by a mammoth, but I am not sure how well that would work visually.

    What if they were baby mammoths? Then that would make sense. =D

    Tho I believe they should be pulled by something other than an ordinary beasts, like…Magic, a non-corporeal form of being. Maybe they will look invisible, or a ghostly form of creature. =D

    #136809

    Motasa
    Member

    Back in AoWII the small folk(goblins, halflings, frostlings) all had 4 move less on their walkers(20 vs 24). In AoWI they had 2 less(24 vs 26). We are talking shambling zombie speed. So that is where the less movement idea comes from.

    Personally I would say we could incorporate that by giving the mammoths less than usual speed(say 28 base) but making them rather tanking otherwise. Basically a more extreme boar rider.

    Yes. I knew that. But since it was skipped for the diminutive races (Dwarves, Goblins, Halflings) this time around, I was wondering what the rationale behind his assumption was.

    About the mammoths, I’m guessing their Wolf Riders/Raiders will make a return – probably the Bleak Wargs as mounts. I’m not a Frosling enthusiast, so to me it doesn’t matter if a mammoth unit is added or not. I’m just glad that with races as Draconians and Dwarves so heavily focused on fire, a race focused on the opposite (ice/water) is added to the game that fills in this gap.

    #136830

    Backero
    Member

    That city is the most beautiful art I’ve ever seen here. I’ve got it as a background of my deskop and I can’t stop looking at it 😀

    #136836

    So are these being released with the Necromancer class with it?

    Also it says the Frostlings are a Matriarchal society, but can I assume I could still pick a male character at the start?

    Sorry, these aren’t issues, just questions. I can’t wait to for all this new content. You are one of the few developers doing add-ons correctly on Steam.

    #136837

    Ravenholme
    Member

    @draxynnic: Agreed, the mammoth rider is probably the least important if grouped together with bleak warg riders, azrac horse riders and azrac elephant riders. And the difference between a mammoth and an elephant isn’t really big enough to warrant a tier difference either way, even if it worked in AoWSM. Shame to see it go though, if that is the case – especially if we do not see a return of the Azracs.

    Having a race that consists of two, at least partly, different races does raise the question regarding how leaders and heroes work. Will you be able to choose between frostlings and frost witches – or will frostlings be male and the witches female? Or will all of them be either warg riding frostlings or chariot riding frost queens? I can’t wait to find out.

    I suspect that female leaders will be Frost Witches and Male ones will be Frostlings themselves, which will be an interesting dynamic – having some dimorphism within a race for the Heroes and Leaders will look quite cool.

    #136881

    I like the Icescaper. He looks mean.

    #136885

    Thariorn
    Member

    So are these being released with the Necromancer class with it?
    Also it says the Frostlings are a Matriarchal society, but can I assume I could still pick a male character at the start?

    The Frostlings will be included in the Necromancer DLC as far as I understood it.

    And I think the “Matriarchal SOciety”-bit only relates to the line-up of the Frostlings (Tho maybe the “Frost Queens are riding chariots…”-thing may apply to the Forstlingleaders (Both genders), who knows but Triumph at this point 😀

    #137089

    Frostlings back! Thats the best news ever since the game came out! Guess I played about 80% of all my games in AoW1/2/SM with Frostlings! Completely love them especially the Yetis, Icescrapers, Mammoths, Woflriders and DoomWolfs!
    Igreatly appreciate that the icescraper looks more like an AoW1 Frostling than an AoW2 Frostling with that rectangular hood. Great stuff!

    Surprised noone else has asked this, but Fast Embark?

    Fast Embark sound interesting. Maybe it works like swimming considering the mobility yet still employs the Embark penalty?

    They didn’t have something resembling pikemen in the last iteration so I wonder what’s the concept for that unit category.

    I asked myself the same question as well!

    Hrm, possibly a chariot riding Frost Queen as T3 then – that would probably mean no Mammoth. I’m torn if that is the case, loved the Mammoth but Chariots are nice.

    Well it might be so but then it might also be that the IceQueen cannot be built AT ALL! So that she can just evolve. That would leave the the slot open for the mommoth and would increase racel differences. (Maybe as part of racial xp!?!) Not that sure if I like the chariot (Archon chariots were just not my thing). It might look a little bit Narnia like. But then I guess it fits quite into the scenery of an advancing frostling host!!! 🙂

    #137163

    Draxynnic
    Member

    I suspect that things like Narnia and Hans Christian Anderson’s Snow Queen were the inspiration for the chariot.

    #137166

    Nyanko
    Member

    I don’t know much about frostlings as I have never played the previous games but I was wondering if they wouldn’t come with a new class as well, like Raider or something. A class that would enhance their skills like the synergies we can find between other races and classes in the game. It would make 8 races and 8 classes. Wouldn’t it be neat? 🙂

    #137172

    Nyanko
    Member

    A raider class could have some interesting mechanics like moving cities, cause raiders need to be very mobile and strike fast. As well, when disembarking, they could take their ships with them and use them again when back at sea or rivers, even use their ships on mainland having mastered some spells allowing their ships to fly over earth. I think it could be a cool class.

    #137177

    A raider class could have some interesting mechanics like moving cities, cause raiders need to be very mobile and strike fast.

    Your suggestion sounds pretty similar to the Nomad specialization that has been suggested before: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/ideas-for-new-specializations/
    But of course it might be an interesting thing to add it as a new class and not as specialization.

    #137196

    Gloweye
    Member

    Well, I don’t think there’s room in there for another class besides Necro.

    #137203

    Just meant that it would be possible to do it as class. Actually I would prefer specializations much more than additional classes. We already have a nice pool of classes and I do not see that many good and authentic classes in addition to that. New specialzations though should give many new aspects and combinations to play pretty much any character you like with the existing classes.

    #137223

    Gloweye
    Member

    well, thats you, but @nyanko suggested it as a class beside Necro.

    I agree with you, might be good as a spec. I’d like to see spec influence increased anyway – more spells and skill in all specs, and maybe class skills adepting to your spec, much the same as class units adept to race(Example: Orc Crusaders having Tireless).

    #137287

    Garresh
    Member

    Well I mean, death adept is already pretty much the raider specialization. Its rather odd because there’s a major change in style between adept and mastery, but adept opens a lot of doors for quick strikes and trashing cities for gold.

    #137293

    Gamling
    Member

    I am very glad that the Frostlings are returning.

    I like the concept art but the city concept art looks besides the igloos very much like a dutch winter. Almost no snow only some frost covers the ground. Here in my Swedish town we usually get like 1-2 meters of snow during winter. The development should take a weekend trip to the Ice hotel in Jukkasjärvi at the very north of Sweden to get into the real icy mode.

    http://www.icehotel.com/

    #137411

    AZJaguar
    Member

    YAY!!! My Favorite race is coming back. I love the Dev team. 🙂

    For the others that are saying they are not goblin looking. Not all race of goblin looks the same, We got to use to the “Lord of the Rings” look of goblins. But if we look at the world’s lore about the different types of goblins there are many types. Japan’s Tengus “Long Nose Goblins” had many types one being a crow goblin..(A good example is European dragons vs Chinese dragons, completely different)..Also add that to breeding with snow fey they look like they should. I just hope they make the Frost Queens have a yuki-onna feel to them, (beauty amongst the ugliness)

    The Chariot riding feel I would suggest something along the lines of the Witch from “The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe”. No Mammoth pulling her….That would look too strange. Bleak Worg rider would be best bet for cavalry cause Mammoths were just too big to be used as a cavalry unit….less you had a really long spear. Add in Mammoths like they did the elephants instead.

    The Icescapers seems to be a tier 2 just for the range freezing and shattering melee And the Ice witch seems tier 2 as well.

    Yeti. Want Yeti. Yeti Hero maybe???

    #137580

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Hm, so, something we’ve not discussed is how the juxtaposition of the Frostlings and the Necromancer will affect the story of the new expansion’s campaign.

    We had a spoiler discussion a while back about why a certain quest in the final mission of the Golden Realms campaign could well point to the Frostlings, and that seems to have been born out.

    But what I was wondering is that Brisska province seems to be the most northern point of the Blessed Continent, and therefore likely directly in the path of any Frostling/Necromancer raiding of Athla to break more seals (if that is, indeed, their objective. Which it may not be, since the potential Necro villain and her servants would appear to already be present on Athla). However, this does raise the question of whether or not we will see Edward Portsmith returning as a character (Something I personally hope for because I quite like him in the Commonwealth Campaign, the VA was good) – as Brisska was gifted to him and restored after the victory of the Torchbearers.

    (Also, a return of Frostlings/Necromancers possibly aligned with the Shadowborn seems the kind of thing that would bring the Torchbearers out to fight it)

    #137619

    Draxynnic
    Member

    There’s not really much more to discuss, really – we’ve just had confirmation that Frostlings were next.

    To summarise:

    * Artica is one of the Shadai war-shrines, as the Frozen Beauty. Whether she’s actually connected to the Shadowborn or not is unknown – it doesn’t really matter, as long as the Frostlings believe the Shadowborn might be able to bring Artica back.

    * Frostlings have a collective chip on their shoulder with the Commonwealth.

    * While Frostlings eschewed contact with the Commonwealth, they traded somewhat with the High Elves. We don’t know, however, if this was with the Elven Court per se. Werlac, the Athlan leader of the Shadowborn so far (although he might cede this to SPOILER) is a High Elf.

    * Frostlings, being a neutral race in the past, did not tolerate undead in their midst, and typically used a mix of air and water magic (sorcerer in AoW3 terms – wisps especially feel a lot like tier 1 Northern Glows). However, this may have changed.

    What is new is:

    * SPOILER has a past history with the Frostlings.

    The big question, however, is what the Frostlings thought of their past relationship with SPOILER. They could see SPOILER as an enemy, a friend, just another foreigner who they had a relationship with until it was no longer appropriate to continue, or they could be split multiple ways.

    What’s probably the biggest question, though, is whether Triumph is going to go villain protagonist with the next campaign. If they do, that leads to a substantially different set of assumptions than if they don’t. A villain protagonist campaign could be relatively straightforward – grab the Frostlings and throw them at the Commonwealth.

    If we’re put in the heroic seat again, though, Triumph will still be looking to give us opportunities to play the new race and class at least once in the campaign. So there’s a potential for dissent among the Frostlings – possibly with some contact between Sundren and the dissenters through the frost wyvern egg traders. Somewhere, we’d also need a good necromancer – maybe SPOILER will surprise us with SPOILER’s ultimate allegiance, or maybe someone else will show up on Athla.

    Either way, my gut feeling is that the Isle of Last Goodbyes might be an early target. It’s pretty far north, an area that hasn’t been used before in AoW3 and thus giving more freedom for map design, currently under Commonwealth control, and probably one of the places on Athla where the veil between worlds is thinnest behind Sunbirth Citadel and Evermore. If there aren’t seals hidden on those islands, I’d be surprised. Being an island map, it’d also provide ample opportunities for Frostlings to show off their Fast Embark skill.

    #137623

    Ravenholme
    Member

    And this is why I love throwing out posts designed to lure in Draxynic – He never disappoints.

    Firstly then: Isle of Last Goodbyes? My memory is hazy so could you please expand on that? What role did it have prior to AoW3?

    Secondly, as I recall, SPOILER did nothing to the Frostlings that would dispose them to be hostile towards them, though they may have been planning to as I recall they never got to do so, so the Frostlings would be none the wiser, so that probably puts their relationship on a Neutral to Friendly basis. I would think therefore that SPOILER might seek out the Frostlings as they are insular enough to not be swayed by the words of those in the rest of Athla who may not remember SPOILER fondly, especially the Elves who have a long memory (thanks to long life) and are friendly with the Commonwealth races in the light of the Torchbearers ending. Especially given the Frostlings chip on their shoulder regarding the Commonwealth (and I assume the Elven Court, for not stepping in to prevent the Commonwealth taking their land), it is very possible that an “Enemy of my Enemy” accord could be reached. I also imagine the Frost Witch element of the Frostling population may want Artica back, as she is/was essentially the best and most powerful of them.

    Also, I am personally hoping for a villain protagonist campaign, maybe with a hearty dose of “What hast thou done?” when we accomplish what the villain protagonist thought was their goals (Skillfully manipulated by SPOILER and her puppet). So long as Edward Portsmith doesn’t die by our sword, anyway.

    #137634

    Taykor
    Member

    Are you sure that exactly that SPOILER did SPOILER in SPOILER? Maybe it was SPOILER, making SPOILER in SPOILER. Really, you should consider SPOILER when thinking about it. Anyway, I’m really looking forward to seeing SPOILER in the frostlings campaign (while I’m not sure if a presence of SPOILER could be justified, even if SPOILER SPOILER when SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER).

    #137635

    GeorgiSR
    Member

    Are you sure that exactly that SPOILER did SPOILER in SPOILER? Maybe it was SPOILER, making SPOILER in SPOILER. Really, you should consider SPOILER when thinking about it. Anyway, I’m really looking forward to seeing SPOILER in the frostlings campaign (while I’m not sure if a presence of SPOILER could be justified, even if SPOILER SPOILER when SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER).

    Taykor you are such a SPOILER 😀

    #137641

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Are you sure that exactly that SPOILER did SPOILER in SPOILER? Maybe it was SPOILER, making SPOILER in SPOILER. Really, you should consider SPOILER when thinking about it. Anyway, I’m really looking forward to seeing SPOILER in the frostlings campaign (while I’m not sure if a presence of SPOILER could be justified, even if SPOILER SPOILER when SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER).

    Oh har har 😛

    Just being mindful of people who have not actually finished the Golden Realms campaign in its entirety (and sidequests) and who are actually interested in the lore from the first game onwards, Taykor.

    SPOILER’s identity isn’t really important beyond the lore implications, but people interested in the lore may not enjoy having it spoiled to them.

    #137655

    vota dc
    Member

    T
    Either way, my gut feeling is that the Isle of Last Goodbyes might be an early target. It’s pretty far north, an area that hasn’t been used before in AoW3 and thus giving more freedom for map design, currently under Commonwealth control, and probably one of the places on Athla where the veil between worlds is thinnest behind Sunbirth Citadel and Evermore. If there aren’t seals hidden on those islands, I’d be surprised. Being an island map, it’d also provide ample opportunities for Frostlings to show off their Fast Embark skill.

    If Dark Elves in Isle of Last Goodbyes become Wood Elves then Frostling will be Tigrans?

    #137689

    Great, but to make “fast embark” or any other sailing related skill useful you really need to boost the importance of the sea element.

    Ships should be the rulers of the sea, I would like it to be an important choice where to build a port, and galleons should be almost invincible on water. Also flyers should have limitations when crossing waters. Somewhere else it was mentioned hit point loss by attrition, or maybe cannot end their flight twice in a row on water (meaning they have to go back to shore to rest otherwise thy die). Limit A LOT line of sight of transports, and even flyers lose their line of sight when embarked with other units to cross water.

    All stuff like that and good luck to the Frostlings who could become a fantastic viking-like pirate culture 🙂

    #137781

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Okay, I’m just going to drop a massive SPOILER WARNING out the front here, since I don’t think it’ll be possible to read the following without massive SPOILERS. So:

    WARNING: SPOILERS TO AOW1, AOW2:TWT AND GR CONTAINED WITHIN. READ ALONG AT YOUR OWN RISK.

    The Isle of Last Goodbyes, in AoW1, was the vector through which the Elves left the Blessed Continent when their allotted time there was up (elves don’t die, but after they abided for a certain amount of time they left to make room for the next generation) – and according to the agreement between the Elves and the Archons, at some point they were supposed to do so en masse in order to make room for humans.

    In the AoW1 campaign, the destination is said to be Evermore, but in AoW1 this was implied to be another world or plane of existence entirely rather than somewhere that can be reached by sea, making a plot inconsistency between the two games. It’s possible that Evermore was where the actual portal out of Athla was, and the Isle of Last Goodbyes portal provided a more convenient route than sailing. One of the interesting quirks, as vota noted, is that the portal from the Isle of Last Goodbyes had a limited Mending effect – it could cure the souls of Dark Elves that passed through it. (This effect was attributed to Evermore itself, but in AoW2 we saw Dark Elves on Evermore that were still Dark Elves. Another possible inconsistency between the two games – either way, for now, I attribute it to the portal.)

    Physically, the islands (there was only one Isle of Last Goodbyes, but it was part of an archipelago) were situated basically directly north of the Valley of Wonders. They’re hard to see in the release version of the campaign map due to being cut off at the top (an earlier version of the map extended upwards a little further) but if you draw a diagonal line left and up of Hengevolt (or roughly northwest, but note that ‘north’ on the map is not directly up – if you compare to the AoW1 map, the cardinal directions are actually four of the lines radiating out from Sylvanus, the Valley of Wonders, and Stronghelm) you’ll find a splash of red right at the edge of the map. That’s the southern island of the archipelago. It wouldn’t surprise me if the seizure of the islands was the final straw that caused the Elven Court to secede.

    When it comes to Melenis: The uncertainty of the frostling attitude towards her is why it’s, well, uncertain. Melenis very clearly used the frostlings as catspaws in the AoW1 campaign – the question is whether they know (or care) that Melenis never actually had their interests at heart and was simply using them as a tool. And that’s something that can really go either way depending on what’s best for the story: there was a long time between AoW1 and the point when the frostlings were pushed off the Blessed Continent during which histories could have been exchanged giving the frostlings the opportunity to realise what Melenis’ actual agenda was.

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