Dev Journal: The Return of PBEM multiplayer

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dev Journal: The Return of PBEM multiplayer

This topic contains 94 replies, has 59 voices, and was last updated by  Taykor 4 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 61 through 90 (of 95 total)
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  • #153233

    Zak
    Member

    I agree with strager here. I’d like some way to play without having to count on Triumph’s servers being up and I assumed PBEM would allow this.
    I assume this was talked about already, but what about LAN games? Are they a possibility?

    #153251

    Fluks
    Member

    (…) finally a way to play multiplayer with ZERO internet requirement (…) Release the Source Code (and binary) for the server, and give us the option to enter the PBEM servers address. (…) It would also be AWESOME if you could use it to play standard multiplayer games as well.

    How do you suppose PBEM works without internet? Even in the old installment you needed the internet to send the mails. I think the server based system is the best solution. +1 for the rest you wrote, but I don’t see it as a pressing problem as long as their server runs. I hope they include your suggestions before they stop their servers though.

    Another question remains, how do we communicate? is the chat function available in the PBEM? or will there be a “sent message” option as in the previous installments?

    #153254

    Fluks
    Member

    (…) what about LAN games? Are they a possibility?

    I think LAN games are already supported in the vanilla version or am I wrong?

    #153269

    Zak
    Member

    I think LAN games are already supported in the vanilla version or am I wrong?

    IIRC they are, in a sense, but you need to connect to the server in order to host them, which kinda makes the “LAN” part of it pointless.

    #153301

    Tenderf00t
    Member

    BUYER BEWARE!! PBEM games can be unbelievably addictive.

    #153350

    strager
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>strager wrote:</div>
    (…) finally a way to play multiplayer with ZERO internet requirement (…) Release the Source Code (and binary) for the server, and give us the option to enter the PBEM servers address. (…) It would also be AWESOME if you could use it to play standard multiplayer games as well.

    How do you suppose PBEM works without internet? Even in the old installment you needed the internet to send the mails. I think the server based system is the best solution. +1 for the rest you wrote, but I don’t see it as a pressing problem as long as their server runs. I hope they include your suggestions before they stop their servers though.

    Another question remains, how do we communicate? is the chat function available in the PBEM? or will there be a “sent message” option as in the previous installments?

    You actually don’t need the internet for email. You can configure a local email server on a LAN without much difficulty – I always assumed this was the primary way PBEM was played in the past (it always was when I played) since internet-based email was so unreliable and limited back in the day when it was a more common feature.

    If there was some sort of guarantee that this would be done “at some point” I’d agree with you – but you never know what the future holds….. even if they PLANNED to implement this, something could come up down the line and it might never be released – better to insist upon it NOW while it is being developed and built. Also, if we waited until “the end” for them to release it, what if there are bugs or other issues that need to be addressed? They need to release this with the initial release (or VERY soon thereafter)……

    #153397

    Antiquado
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fluks wrote:</div>
    I think LAN games are already supported in the vanilla version or am I wrong?

    IIRC they are, in a sense, but you need to connect to the server in order to host them, which kinda makes the “LAN” part of it pointless.

    Although I agree it is close to pointless, we have actually managed to scrape together a few friends for local games in a place with *almost* no Internet. The challenging part was that ALL computers needs to be online at the same time, when starting the game. From then on, it can play until the game ends. But imagine the frustration of 3 guys trying to get 3 mobile phones on the Internet at an almost Internet-empty place, waving the cabled phones just inside reach for a… simultaneous… Steam signal, and THEN racing to the hosting/joining menu! Only extreme stubbornness made the day…
    Next time, we’ll bring a wireless router – at least you’ll be on at the same time 🙂

    Oh hell, we’ll probably just stay home playing PBEM now – Damn you, Triumph! 🙂

    #153399

    Antiquado
    Member

    Oh.. And my only lamentation is that this spells the final end of Shadow Magic PBEM games… Beaten by a far superior game.
    Wait, I think I can live with that 🙂

    #153529

    naeco
    Member

    This is what I was waiting for in Aow3. Already I’ve been seeing some familiar faces in the previous Aow game series.

    Some questions off my mind to the dev if you don’t mind..

    I think all the players have raised their concerns on server-based download center for PBEM and I’d like to +1 to that as well. As you are well aware that the first ever game of the series, Age of Wonders is still have an active PBEM community after over 10 years, after the publishers have ended the support for the game. If you’re to hope that Aow3 can follow Aow1’s glorious path, you have to foresee far into the future where 60-year-old guys can still enjoy PBEMs among old friends. So if a descentralized solution is not on the table, at least please allow the possibility of adding custom servers for reasons so many others have stated.

    A (NEW) feature that went unnoticed is the TIMER! How would that even work? If the timer reaches zero, what would happen to the player that miss that turn? Will the system simply click End Turn for him and pass it on to the next player? Would it be able to move itself if a player has set up the path for his troops and production queue is on? What’s the max waiting time of the timer? Will there be an option to desactivate it?

    Another aspect of PBEM is substitutions where players who are no longer available can be replaced to keep the game continue. Yes, we will have the timer to keep the game go on, but in such situations of ally, co-op, team games… a player is preferred being replaced than going stand-by for the sake of the alliance or other involved players. Or just simply when the Timer option was not activated.

    Thanks for the great news!

    There might be a chance for this to happen when/if the official ones go down. However, I believe they’re not planning to let that happen anytime soon.

    What most of us are afraid of is the “not planning to let that happen anytime soon” part. That’s why PBEM hardcore prefer decentralized solution where players are not dependent on server-based download center for their game turns.

    #153666

    tuster
    Member

    What most of us are afraid of is the “not planning to let that happen anytime soon” part. That’s why PBEM hardcore prefer decentralized solution where players are not dependent on server-based download center for their game turns.

    yes, that’s my worry as well. Same goes for the network play. If there are no Trimuph servers someday in the future, we will not be able to play any lan games nor PBEM games. TRIMUPH, please prepare for that day. Don’t plan to open the game then, it will probably be too late: if you have to close the servers I doubt there will be any manpower to put additional work into the game then.

    #153881

    meeber
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>meeber wrote:</div>
    Well even though I don’t see the point in playing PBEM I am glad it is added for those who do. For me there is no point playing a game if you can’t set a little time to play it. If I don’t have minimum 1/2 hour to play a game then there is no point in playing. The who play one or two turns then wait a week before you can play your next turn is not my cup of tea. But I’m always for the more options the better.

    What you can do is get a LOT of games going, like say a dozen games, which should leave you with several games to make moves for each day.

    No thanks this is not a card game or Words for friends where that would be fun. Besides the bread and butter of Age of Wonders is manual tactical combat which PBEM does not have. And since I never use auto-combat (and refuse to do so) for MP or SP this would not be for me.

    #153885

    Low_K
    Member

    No thanks this is not a card game or Words for friends where that would be fun. Besides the bread and butter of Age of Wonders is manual tactical combat which PBEM does not have. And since I never use auto-combat (and refuse to do so) for MP or SP this would not be for me.

    Well you can use the Manual Battle against the AI in a PBEM game. It’s just against the other human players you cannot.

    Personally I will start many games. I feel the PBEM system will work wonders as I played a few MP games and they were very enjoyable. Trouble was always the time-span for PUG’s as well as the sometimes unfortunate auto-battle results against the AI on sites and such. With PBEM; This will be a thing of the past as I can take my time battling AI on resources!

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #153919

    naeco
    Member

    Well.. it’s just personal preferences that the game has to offer. Some like it, others won’t. For me, I can rarely afford to play online for hours in a row so PBEM is perfect for me. I can spend 5 or 15 minutes in between to play or just ponder a move. The beauty of PBEM is that you can play a turn well crafted with no constraints bound by online games.

    There were times where I had a few dozen games going on at the same time when I was playing Aow:SM. Some would take less than 5 minutes, while others would need hour or so to consider all options and deal with diplomacy.

    I’m sure it wouldn’t take too long after PBEM for Aow3 is out for me to start jumping in. That’s the only thing delaying me from playing the game.

    #154005

    Stormwind
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Stormwind wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>meeber wrote:</div><br>
    Well even though I don’t see the point in playing PBEM I am glad it is added for those who do. For me there is no point playing a game if you can’t set a little time to play it. If I don’t have minimum 1/2 hour to play a game then there is no point in playing. The who play one or two turns then wait a week before you can play your next turn is not my cup of tea. But I’m always for the more options the better.

    What you can do is get a LOT of games going, like say a dozen games, which should leave you with several games to make moves for each day.

    No thanks this is not a card game or Words for friends where that would be fun. Besides the bread and butter of Age of Wonders is manual tactical combat which PBEM does not have. And since I never use auto-combat (and refuse to do so) for MP or SP this would not be for me.

    Its not a card game or words, but I dont see what difference that makes. It feels more like chess to me than a card game, and chess is perfect for the “PBEM” style.

    I agree that not having manual against humans is bad, but apparently you get to do amnual against the AI. IMO the strategic board is where most of these games are won or lost anyway.

    #154043

    Yeah, PBEM makes it more of a strategic struggle than tactical and you have a lot more time to think as opposed to hurried turns in normal mp. It’s just a different focus. If you can accept that it can be pretty compelling.

    #154058

    caxap
    Member

    PBEM is VERY cool idea.
    I have no time to play MP games, but i can find 10-20 mins for the one turn.

    No Manual battle between players is sad, but i can deal with it.

    #154066

    Well you can use the Manual Battle against the AI in a PBEM game. It’s just against the other human players you cannot.

    The idea has been floated to have the option of pausing the game when a fight against a Human starts, until such a time as both combatants are online to resolve it.

    The obvious downside there is that it could mean a single turn drags on for a very long time, but the counterpoint to that is that pbem games are going to last a while anyway.

    I have 6 games going on right now, and all are quite tense.

    I find myself making notes for each game, and, gasp, planning ahead. It’s a different game :).

    #154078

    Thariorn
    Member

    The idea has been floated to have the option of pausing the game when a fight against a Human starts, until such a time as both combatants are online to resolve it.

    I wonder if it is possible to have manual combat between human players work like the PBEM-system.

    So Palyer A attacks B, decides to go manual. A then HAS TO WAIT for B to finish his first combat turn (As B should be the Defender, thus 1st turn) and so on.
    The biggest problem with my “simple” (Hehe, no) suggestion would probably be that currently AoW offers no in-combat saves, which would be required to make such a system work ~

    #154160

    Zuendhoelzli
    Member

    Finally a way to participate for me on MP.

    thumbs up!

    #154181

    Gloweye
    Member

    The idea has been floated to have the option of pausing the game when a fight against a Human starts, until such a time as both combatants are online to resolve it.

    I’d like it very much if a thing like this would be possible…worst case, in Thariorn’s way, but preferably just able when you’re online together. You might be able to use in-game chat to get a time.

    I’m getting a feeling that PBEM might get me online an unhealthy amount of time, on the days that it’d be wiser to spend time on school.

    #154188

    Stormwind
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Low_K wrote:</div>
    Well you can use the Manual Battle against the AI in a PBEM game. It’s just against the other human players you cannot.

    The idea has been floated to have the option of pausing the game when a fight against a Human starts, until such a time as both combatants are online to resolve it.

    The obvious downside there is that it could mean a single turn drags on for a very long time, but the counterpoint to that is that pbem games are going to last a while anyway.

    I have 6 games going on right now, and all are quite tense.

    I find myself making notes for each game, and, gasp, planning ahead. It’s a different game :) .

    Yeah if it could do that one thing I would probably only play PBEM from now on. Its very hard for me to find uninterrupted hours for a MP game.

    As

    #154586

    naeco
    Member

    With the use of a server to host PBEM, scheduling manual combats between human players is more possible, I think. But then that defeats the purpose of PBEM: Flexible playing time for everyone.

    Having played online, I know that manual combats between human players take a lot of time even for skirmishes. Epic battles in PBEM is huge, that will take hours from the players (2, maybe 3 or more if allies are involved). And in one turn, more than one important battle can occur.

    Been playing PBEM for a decade more or less, I know how PBEM works like the back of my hand and I feel the frustrations of not being able to do manual combats too. But a hybrid PBEM that allows partial online involve will not be something I have high hope for while current issues of implementing the feature to the game is still there. The life span of PBEM is longer than most kind of games. Making it dependent is like not giving it a life of its own. The game dies when the publisher can no longer support it.

    #159697

    llfoso
    Member

    That’s why being able to transition back and forth between live and pbem would be nice, when you reach a point where a big climactic showdown is about to happen you can schedule a time to do it with both players online. However if EVERY fight between humans results in having to wait till you’re both online… boy that could make things take awhile if your game has a lot of border skirmishes.

    #159703

    llfoso
    Member

    Oh and also, a question: if combat between players is resolved on the attacker’s turn, how does the defender select whether to use spells in combat?

    #159905

    Kruos
    Member

    The coming PBEM will be a crucial addition to the game.

    I think the game deserved a better multiplayer system than the actual one, because in its current state it does not give the game enough possibilies to reveal all its depth, and the PBEM incoming will adressed that, for the better.

    At the moment, most (if not all) multiplayer games are like bloodthirsted duel with very limited strategies due to the ‘quick’ format. Maybe there are some free for all games with more depht inside, but they are probably very seldom and I do not have seen one alas.

    With the PBEM big multiplayer games will be possible, with diplomacy and backstabbing, like a real strategy game with lot of layers of decision (not only the momentum one as it is now essentially).

    Actually, think the true depht of the game will be unlocked.

    On the downside, the game will become less tactical, as combats will mostly be automatic. It’s a downside for who like the tactical combat yes, but I prefere the strategic layer, so for me it’s nothing. The way the game will be played will change for sure, it will become more a strategic game than a tactical one I think.

    All these being said, here is my point about combat :

    I think that with the PBEM, which will be the futur of the game I think/hope, the auto-combat system will need some small option to allow the player to tweak it simply.

    I do not mean something as detailled as Dominions, but a little thing like a way to tweak the deployment or the casting spell order/target for example would be nice.

    What do you think pbem players? 🙂

    #159912

    madmac
    Member

    It would be very helpful if there was a way to tell the AI to cast a certain spell in autobattle, yes. I’m not sure it’s feasible at this stage, though.

    #160153

    Gloweye
    Member

    if combat between players is resolved on the attacker’s turn, how does the defender select whether to use spells in combat?

    PvP combat is auto-combat only in PBEM…the second I’m not completely sure, but I think spells are always on.

    #164541

    SpiritSeeker
    Member

    Ah, yes! I played AOW1 with PBEM back in the days. Best ever!
    Ok, a real pity you can’t do tactical combat vs other players, but so much better than not playing vs other players at all! Yup, my life is full of real-time-multiplayer-killers too… 😉

    #164542

    SpiritSeeker
    Member

    Hi Kruos,
    Yes, I REALLY like the autocombat tweaking idea. Indeed, not as much as in Dominion 3, but still some general tactics to set would at least give you some feeling of control.

    #237163

    Fizzbitch
    Member

    Maybe a bit late but I was wondering how long you can wait before replying to a PBEM game before you forfeit it? Like how long do you have to play your turn?

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