Development Journal: Diplomacy Improvements (AI Surrender!)

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Development Journal: Diplomacy Improvements (AI Surrender!)

This topic contains 60 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by  Eric 7 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 31 through 60 (of 61 total)
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  • #119579

    Althea
    Member

    Accepting an alliance: This might just be because you’re always the stronger factor. Because if an empire stronger than yours asks you to form an alliance, why would you reject?

    Alliance/Peace/War: That’s just how AoW has always worked. Relations are specific to every other player. The difference between an Alliance and Peace is that with an Alliance you can win together with allied victory, and you can see what the other is doing. I suppose that in FFA PvP it also shows more trust that simple peace.

    I’m pretty sure even if the AI is the stronger one they still accept alliance.

    Regarding Alliance at war, from what you said, i take it that it’s not a bug then. Good to know.

    #119583

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Leyrann wrote:</div>
    Accepting an alliance: This might just be because you’re always the stronger factor. Because if an empire stronger than yours asks you to form an alliance, why would you reject?

    Alliance/Peace/War: That’s just how AoW has always worked. Relations are specific to every other player. The difference between an Alliance and Peace is that with an Alliance you can win together with allied victory, and you can see what the other is doing. I suppose that in FFA PvP it also shows more trust that simple peace.

    I’m pretty sure even if the AI is the stronger one they still accept alliance.

    Regarding Alliance at war, from what you said, i take it that it’s not a bug then. Good to know.

    I’ve had AI refuse me alliances before, usually when I was bargaining from a position of weakness, but not always. So I am not actually sure what the criteria is behind acceptance/rejection of Alliances.

    #119585

    Ricminator
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>wenitaseris wrote:</div>
    will be anligment system also adres in your new dlc? or at least in some up coming patch following the release of golden realms?^^

    In addition to this, I wonder if the campaign scenarios also have some “open” diplomacy involved. As you know in most campaign missions these alliances are mostly fixed, because story wise it makes no sense in any other way. But I wonder if there will be missions where there are leaders who are a bit of wild card. It should be able to fight them or form an alliance, just as you like.

    [Campaign spoiler]
    Well there is already something like this. If you play the champion of the commonwealth branch you can bribe Colm to switch sides or fight him.

    [End spoiler]

    This post made me think of something though – sometimes the AI builds a city like, right next to your current domain border (as in, they actually “steal” domain from you) while you’re trying to take a Heart or something with it. Do they still do this?

    I hope not. That behavior should been fixed in one of the earlier patches, but I still encounter it too.

    I’m looking forward to this patch as well. Keep it up, it is looking great.

    #119591

    Gloweye
    Member

    Leyrann wrote:
    This post made me think of something though – sometimes the AI builds a city like, right next to your current domain border (as in, they actually “steal” domain from you) while you’re trying to take a Heart or something with it. Do they still do this?

    I hope not. That behavior should been fixed in one of the earlier patches, but I still encounter it too.

    I’m looking forward to this patch as well. Keep it up, it is looking great.

    The Trespassing issue fixed will do a REAL LOT for this. You can just use your domain to block him out.

    #119633

    Sordak
    Member

    Is that face on that dorf new?

    meh, i guess i can dream on that they will eventually put a tolerable face for draconians in….

    Still, good changes, especialy the tresspassing bit

    #119636

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Is that face on that dorf new?

    meh, i guess i can dream on that they will eventually put a tolerable face for draconians in….

    Still, good changes, especialy the tresspassing bit

    I was actually thinking that the unit in the background of the surrender image, on the great farm, looks unfamiliar. It looks kind of like a Scoundrel, but not, as far as I can tell.

    #119640

    Sordak
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Sordak wrote:</div>
    Is that face on that dorf new?

    meh, i guess i can dream on that they will eventually put a tolerable face for draconians in….

    Still, good changes, especialy the tresspassing bit

    I was actually thinking that the unit in the background of the surrender image, on the great farm, looks unfamiliar. It looks kind of like a Scoundrel, but not, as far as I can tell.

    Oh there are DEFINITLY new backgrounds we have seen those on the halflings. And that unit you see there most likley is a halfling unit.
    The question is if there are new models for old races aswell.

    Id hope so but i dont think its the case.

    #119644

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ravenholme wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Sordak wrote:</div><br>
    Is that face on that dorf new?

    meh, i guess i can dream on that they will eventually put a tolerable face for draconians in….

    Still, good changes, especialy the tresspassing bit

    I was actually thinking that the unit in the background of the surrender image, on the great farm, looks unfamiliar. It looks kind of like a Scoundrel, but not, as far as I can tell.

    Oh there are DEFINITLY new backgrounds we have seen those on the halflings. And that unit you see there most likley is a halfling unit.<br>
    The question is if there are new models for old races aswell.

    Id hope so but i dont think its the case.

    Yeah, it’s probably a halfling scoundrel, just the weapon it’s using looks odd (Yes, I zoomed in on the picture just to stare at that one incidental detail).

    Only one new unit for the current classes, it has been leaked that the Scoundrel evolve ability no longer turns them into Assassins, but something new. What that is, we’ve not been told.

    #119733

    jakjak
    Member

    Thank you for the abilty to attack trespassing units

    #119748

    terrahero
    Member

    Yeah, it’s probably a halfling scoundrel, just the weapon it’s using looks odd (Yes, I zoomed in on the picture just to stare at that one incidental detail).

    Maybe the Halfing scoundrel uses a Slingshot? It wouldnt be the only class unit that uses its racial weapon.

    #119759

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ravenholme wrote:</div>
    Yeah, it’s probably a halfling scoundrel, just the weapon it’s using looks odd (Yes, I zoomed in on the picture just to stare at that one incidental detail).

    Maybe the Halfing scoundrel uses a Slingshot? It wouldnt be the only class unit that uses its racial weapon.

    Now that is an intriguing possibility, but they don’t generally model it when a racial variation of a class unit has a racial weapon.

    (And I am still hoping that some day they’ll model proper cavalry pistol animations for racial cavalry)

    #119843

    meeber
    Member

    Back to topic. I want ask something, is alliance issue with AI already being addressed?

    Because right now, AI accept alliance too easily, i never say them decline any alliance offer.

    Also, i notice in this game, when you’re ally with someone else, when one member of the alliance is declared war by someone, the other member of the alliance doesn’t instantly enter into the same war. Is this intended or just a bug?

    Regarding that, maybe a defensive pact option like in Civ series can add more flavor to diplomacy.

    I have only once since playing this game (even Beta) have been able to make an alliance without setting up teams when setting up the game or playing more than one leader and setting up alliance. If you asked me I would say make making alliances a little easier to do.

    #119847

    meeber
    Member

    I have a surrender question.

    So will the leader only surrender when he only has one city left?
    And if he is able to surrender when controlling multiple cities, will the leader that he surrenders too get all those cities and all his remaining units that are left on the map?
    If surrendering leader also has heroes will they also join you?

    #119897

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Their other cities go neutral. I don’t recall what happens to heroes, but I think they go neutral as well.

    #119945

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Their other cities go neutral. I don’t recall what happens to heroes, but I think they go neutral as well.

    Yeah, I assume it is the same (from the way it was worded in the article) as killing a leader and taking his throne city without taking all his other cities or killing his heroes – they all go independent. (Except in the case of Surrender you get the throne city, the stack guarding it, and the Leader as a hero)

    #119946

    JPoll
    Member

    In case of surrender, do you only get the stack sitting on the middle hex of the throne or do you also get the stacks on the adjacent city hexes?

    #120133

    LordTheRon
    Member

    Nice work Eric and keep those improvements coming!

    #120510

    The surrender option is great as long as it is not automatic. I mean some leaders would never surrender. Instead than makeing it an option for all leaders to be set at the beginning, just make it an option that can be chosen individually or set to “random” for each separate enemy (the same way as king ai or knight ai is set)
    That way if I really want to have that option on in a generic way, in order to easily mop up the map while in single payer mode, I would just set it the same for all… but having enemies behave in different way would just add depth to the game and that (especially in multy player games) could be really fun.
    In Elemental fallen Enchantress that is implemented in a way that is too mechanic: as soon as the enmy is left with one city he surrenders, now we are smarter aren’t we?
    😀

    #120721

    Eric
    Moderator

    This sounds excellent! Will the AI improvements and changes affect the existing single player campaign maps within vanilla AoW 3? Or is this just a change to the new campaign and random map generator?

    This will affect all maps, although a lot of campaign map have scripting which manipulates the AI, or turns it off completely. As far as I know all the campaign maps (old and new) have the surrender mechanic turned off for story reasons.

    This post made me think of something though – sometimes the AI builds a city like, right next to your current domain border (as in, they actually “steal” domain from you) while you’re trying to take a Heart or something with it. Do they still do this?

    This is still a possible, we are looking at ways to react to this for a player. One of the things we are considering is a message/demand/warning system similar to what Esvath is refering to. Where you can ask the AI ‘to not expand near your borders’.

    I have only 1 question though – what about random Declared war on their ally (-400) hate you get from Ai? Is that fixed as well or will your Ai allies still hate your guts after X number of turns?

    Yep, this bug will be fixed in the next patch

    #120723

    Eric
    Moderator

    Their other cities go neutral. I don’t recall what happens to heroes, but I think they go neutral as well.

    Correct, other cities will go neutral as will the heroes.

    In case of surrender, do you only get the stack sitting on the middle hex of the throne or do you also get the stacks on the adjacent city hexes?

    At the moment you’ll only get the defenders on the city hex. Although I could see why you would also want the defenders on the adjacent city hexes. What do you guys think about this?

    #120727

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Draxynnic wrote:</div>
    Their other cities go neutral. I don’t recall what happens to heroes, but I think they go neutral as well.

    Correct, other cities will go neutral as will the heroes.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JPoll wrote:</div>
    In case of surrender, do you only get the stack sitting on the middle hex of the throne or do you also get the stacks on the adjacent city hexes?

    At the moment you’ll only get the defenders on the city hex. Although I could see why you would also want the defenders on the adjacent city hexes. What do you guys think about this?

    I think getting the defenders on the other city hexes, not just the central one, is a good idea. You could end up losing the city as fast as you got it otherwise if the other stacks went neutral hostile and attacked.

    #120750

    Athei
    Member

    Thx Eric, that’s really great!

    Really looking forward to DLC now 😀

    #120898

    Gloweye
    Member

    Do the other stacks go neutral hostile, like when you defeated the player old-style, or do they go neutral standard, since their old leader is now your hero?

    #121148

    NEHZ
    Member

    I think getting the defenders on the other city hexes, not just the central one, is a good idea. You could end up losing the city as fast as you got it otherwise if the other stacks went neutral hostile and attacked.

    He sold us out! Left us to die while he gets a cosy spot in the conqueror’s army. Death to the traitor!

    #121189

    Eric
    Moderator

    Cities that turn neutral will be hostile towards you. They run the city guard behaviour which means that they will not actively attack you unless you come close to their city. Units that are not on a city will turn neutral – ‘none hostile’.

    Also, you’ll now get the defenders on the throne + defenders on the adjacent hexes.

    #121203

    Gloweye
    Member

    @eric

    Thanks for the clarification.

    if you’ll allow me one more question. If the surrendering leader is currently garrisoned in another city, will that city switch to your side, or will the leader move to an adjacent hex?

    #121443

    Eric
    Moderator

    The surrendering leader will be moved to his ‘old’ throne. The city he was garrisoned in will turn neutral as normal. If the surrendering leader does not have a throne city he will be moved next to your leader.

    and, just shoot if you have any other questions.

    #121486

    Bob5
    Member

    Can an AI also surrender if their leader is in the void?

    #121847

    Eric
    Moderator

    Yeah, he can surrender when he is in the void. He’ll just spawn as a hero in your army as normal.

    #121932

    Hunter
    Member

    This is a great new feature.

    However, in my (very limited) experience with the new patch, the AI surrendered a TAD too early.

    Could have holed up in the Crown City and been REALLY tough to winkle out, such that I might be tempted to take a peace and do something else.

    Can it be tweaked?

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