Did you know you can win a battle by just… Running around? Why?

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Did you know you can win a battle by just… Running around? Why?

This topic contains 56 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by  Stormwind 6 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 27 posts - 31 through 57 (of 57 total)
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  • #210954

    Having no turn timer at all is actually more of a cheat.

    Besides, you are the one cheesing it. When you get into a fight like that, just surrender.

    You are deliberately trying to break the AI here, and guess what, there are several ways to cheese it, this is one of the more innocuous.

    I’m going to predict it’ll be a ‘nay’ – developer time and all that, and also because they actually introduced the timer in the first place.

    Making it an option might work though, to add to the list of things people dislike being optionable.

    #210959

    Smaug3
    Member

    I reiterate again, it`s very simple. I have added a little extra for more choice.
    1: Make the turns until it ‘times out’ longer, say 10 or 15 turns. It’s over way too quickly.

    Five turns is too quick? In five turns, you can move a total of twenty hexs if your armies are foot soldiers, thirty if they’re cavalry. That’s a large amount of the battlefield that they’re moving in. If you think that the timers too slow, just nuke them with a spell.

    2: Get rid of it completely for Single Player.

    I don’t think that this should happen, nor is it neccesary. You’re only actually going to make use of this if you’re faster than your enemy, and weaker, and this usually only happens during the scout wars. It’s not like your troops are going to come back and say ‘sir, we ran into a lot of crows. we caught and killed every single one.’

    3: Make it optional with On, Off and a 5, 10 or 20 turn Timer choice.

    Look, I’ve seen people argue for more options on time limits and such. Do you know which ones have gotten them? 1) The unifier beacon, which is a victory condition. 2) The number of heroes and their max level. This plays a major factor in the actual game. 3) Seals. Once again, this plays a major role in how the game folds out. 4) Number of players, size of map, number of cities and dwellings and number of treasures and structures. 5) Cosmic events, which cause huge changes in ones playstyle when they occur. All of these are major elements in how a game unfolds. Does what you’re requesting influence the game in any major way? No, it just means that one battle in a thousand is delayed a turn.

    As for your responses, I am appealing to TRIUMPH, the only people who can actually do something about this. Fact is many of you completely ignore the optional choices I outlined, prefering to argue without actually reading what I wrote. The only reason I reply to some of you is because it keeps this thread at the top and hopefully, the Devs will notice and respond whether they say ‘Yea’ or ‘Nay’, cheers. I shall continue appealing to them.

    *sigh* I have said this before, and I am going to say it again. This is a public forum. We are people and we have opinions. Our thoughts are no less important than yours, and we have every right to say what we think. Whether or not we are the Devs, we still have the right to say why we think this change is a bad idea.

    #210966

    CSav10
    Member

    Its put in play to stop never-ending battles. Its not something that will cheat MP battles, and I don’t really think its that big a deal in SP. Even wandering spiders phase now. I find it a lot funnier that you get game messages coming up on the load screen telling you that if you leave a few weak creatures in your city it will stop brigands attacking you, when they leave empty cities alone regardless. The viewing of the hex grid on the map is something that actually does need fixing. The fact the lower hexes on the map sometimes can’t be seen unless your zoomed in pretty much on top of a creature is rediculous.

    #210969

    melkathi
    Member

    @ Mel, no he’s talking about the principle of a battle ending after x turns of no damage, you’re talking about confusing the AI using walls.

    Fair enough.
    Only works because of the timer though 😉

    I think I read arguments in favour of the timer back then that if there wasn’t a timer, and if it wasn’t this “short”, then trolls in multiplayer against random/unknown opponents would run the danger of someone running away until their opponent got tired and was forced to retreat/abandon in frustration.
    So for multiplayer I am fine both with the system and the turn length.
    For single player, as it is only the player who can abuse the system, it seems like too much effort that could be put into adding a shadow realm with Syrons, Shadow Demons and possibly pockets of Lizardmen and non-undead archons

    #210978

    Sartharina
    Member

    Eh… I actually like it. If the defenders can manage to stave off enemy attacks long enough to survive, they get to keep their unit!

    There are only two times I’ve had this ‘problem’. One was my Cheetah attacked by a band of roving Undead that came out of nowhere, and she ran away (but couldn’t retreat because defender).

    The other time, I was attacking a dwarf fort defended by two Tier 1 units (Can’t remember what they were) with a Sunguard and a Cheetah, and timed out trying to run around the walls to attack from the side the enemy wasn’t on. But then I ran out of rounds.

    #211008

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    If anything I might change it to remove damaging walls / carts and such from resetting the timer. It’s easy to abuse to do stupid things like endless heal-fests.

    Honestly there will always be abuses for such a fixed rule. Even removing the rule will create abuses. So I would vote to leave it as it is or make it optional I suppose.

    #211032

    Klydon
    Member

    I reiterate again, it`s very simple. I have added a little extra for more choice.

    1: Make the turns until it ‘times out’ longer, say 10 or 15 turns. It’s over way too quickly.

    2: Get rid of it completely for Single Player.

    3: Make it optional with On, Off and a 5, 10 or 20 turn Timer choice.

    As it is, it`s a cheat.

    As for your responses, I am appealing to TRIUMPH, the only people who can actually do something about this. Fact is many of you completely ignore the optional choices I outlined, prefering to argue without actually reading what I wrote. The only reason I reply to some of you is because it keeps this thread at the top and hopefully, the Devs will notice and respond whether they say ‘Yea’ or ‘Nay’, cheers. I shall continue appealing to them.

    You are coming off as being very much a whiner here.

    The rule is in place to make the attacker be aggressive. In most cases, this is to force the human to be aggressive in most any type of fight. With the pressure of time, you can’t get every buff on every unit and get things perfectly positioned.

    In addition, it forces the fight to continue at a certain pace even if you think it is to your advantage to lengthen it out (xp farming/healing units, etc).

    City sieges would be totally gimped with no time limit or a long time limit.

    Instead of complaining about it if you are the defender, then just hit “auto-resolve” and move along.

    #211090

    Fenraellis
    Member

    1: Make the turns until it ‘times out’ longer, say 10 or 15 turns. It’s over way too quickly.

    5 turns almost feels like too long, sometimes. As Smaug3 said, you can move quite far in that time frame, and if the enemy is trying to cheese you like this, just hit them with a spell while you continue to catch them.

    Aside from that, make sure you bring more units than the enemy if you are not as fast as them, so you can pincer them.

    In the previous game, it was 25(26?) turns, and my goodness was it boring to watch a single fast unit running in circles around the map to ‘defend’ against a stronger but slower unit for that entire duration.

    #211109

    Unknown250
    Member

    I think it’s a pretty good rule. It resolves most of the exploits the earlier games had, and it will almost always benefit the defender – meaning that the onus is on the attacker to make sure they have a way of preventing the defender from outmaneuvering them (which is how it should be, IMHO).

    #211116

    Wallthing
    Member

    I have no problem with this mechanic whatsoever. If I’m the attacker, it gives me a bit of urgency and prevents MP cheese. If I’m the defender and the attacker can’t catch my units to apply even 1 damage… how would that battle work out in real life? 5 rounds is just long enough to allow a little bit of tactical planning before I have to start hurting something.

    #211117

    Socratatus
    Member

    Your personal views of how I say the message has nothing to do with it. I have insulted no one. I have made my point firmly and clearly; it’s not my problem if some of you can’t handle someone who knows what he’s talking about and isn’t afraid to express it. Be glad I’m not upset with a greator error. This is me being nice.

    And how often have I complained here? Or whined if you prefer, I actually don’t care what you choose to call it. 99% of the tme I have appeared to praise the game and it’s devs. 99% of the time I’ve had almost no complaints. I bought every DLC and am happy with 95% of the game. I do not whine much at all.

    Oh, but nobody notices those times, eh.

    I’m sorry if I come across as abrasive to some sensitive souls, but I don’t pussy foot about when I see an issue I feel needs correcting. some of you have no idea how you are wasting your time. If you don’t care, don’t post here, play your game in contentment. My appeal is to Triumph and to how it affects the single player game as a cheat, not whether you don’t mind it or not opinions.

    Again, respectfully to Triumph:
    1: Make the turns until it ‘times out’ longer, say 10 or 15 turns. It’s over way too quickly.

    2: Get rid of it completely for Single Player.

    3: Make it optional with On, Off and a 5, 10 or 20 turn Timer choice.

    #211120

    Smaug3
    Member

    Your personal views of how I say the message has nothing to do with it. I have insulted no one. I have made my point firmly and clearly; it’s not my problem if some of you can’t handle someone who knows what he’s talking about and isn’t afraid to express it. Be glad I’m not upset with a greator error. This is me being nice.

    What? How have we been unable to handle something? We haven’t been ‘unable to handle someone who knows what he’s talking about.’ We’ve been debating opinions, and as I said in an earlier post, just because we disagree with your opinion doesn’t make us wrong.

    And how often have I complained here? Or whined if you prefer, I actually don’t care what you choose to call it. 99% of the tme I have appeared to praise the game and it’s devs. 99% of the time I’ve had almost no complaints. I bought every DLC and am happy with 95% of the game. I do not whine much at all.

    Oh, but nobody notices those times, eh.

    It’s not that we didn’t notice though times, I’ve certainly noticed them, but those were then. This is now. Even though I’ve never complained about anything here, does that mean that if I find something to be wrong then it’s automatically wrong? That’s like saying because every time I said that the squid weren’t flying I was right the time I say that the squid are flying. You can only go so far with extrapolation.

    I’m sorry if I come across as abrasive to some sensitive souls, but I don’t pussy foot about when I see an issue I feel needs correcting. some of you have no idea how you are wasting your time. If you don’t care, don’t post here, play your game in contentment. My appeal is to Triumph and to how it affects the single player game as a cheat, not whether you don’t mind it or not opinions.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but every time someone like THE Black Knight came out with a single player cheat, didn’t you say just not to do it? Also, allow me to quote our mightier forum master Sorax.

    Why? Does the “keymaster” under my name mean that my posts are more valuable than the ones of any other user? Does it mean I would own Jomungur in a MP-battle? (both is a “no” :) )

    Lastly, as I said before, this is a public forum. We are allowed to post here, disagree or agree with you, and just because you disagree with us does not automatically make us in the wrong.

    #211147

    Stormwind
    Member

    I’m sorry if I come across as abrasive to some sensitive souls, but I don’t pussy foot about when I see an issue I feel needs correcting. some of you have no idea how you are wasting your time. If you don’t care, don’t post here, play your game in contentment. My appeal is to Triumph and to how it affects the single player game as a cheat, not whether you don’t mind it or not opinions.

    Again, respectfully to Triumph:
    1: Make the turns until it ‘times out’ longer, say 10 or 15 turns. It’s over way too quickly.

    2: Get rid of it completely for Single Player.

    3: Make it optional with On, Off and a 5, 10 or 20 turn Timer choice.

    I do care, because I definitely do not want Triumph to implement what you suggest, so thats why I post here. And it seems no one agrees with you, and I am going to go waaaaaay out on a limb and guess Triumph doesnt either. (who says you cant do sarcasm on the internet?).

    I played Shadow Magic and I well remember the 25 turns of running around. That game could certainly have used a 5 round timer. There were times I had to decide “Is it worth 25 rounds of utter boredom to save this unit, or should I just let it die and call it a day?”

    Thankfully, Triumph has gotten smarter in the meantime and implemented 5 turn timer instead. The only suggestion on this thread I could get behind is the guy who said eliminate resetting the timer for destroying carts…though I do think walls should reset the timer, since the unit banging on a wall is taking a chance of getting hit. But the carts strewn about the battlefield…I would support those not counting. I can understand though that it might be impossible for the game engine to differentiate them.

    #211150

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Your personal views of how I say the message has nothing to do with it. I have insulted no one. I have made my point firmly and clearly; it’s not my problem if some of you can’t handle someone who knows what he’s talking about and isn’t afraid to express it. Be glad I’m not upset with a greator error. This is me being nice.

    And how often have I complained here? Or whined if you prefer, I actually don’t care what you choose to call it. 99% of the tme I have appeared to praise the game and it’s devs. 99% of the time I’ve had almost no complaints. I bought every DLC and am happy with 95% of the game. I do not whine much at all.

    Oh, but nobody notices those times, eh.

    I’m sorry if I come across as abrasive to some sensitive souls, but I don’t pussy foot about when I see an issue I feel needs correcting. some of you have no idea how you are wasting your time. If you don’t care, don’t post here, play your game in contentment. My appeal is to Triumph and to how it affects the single player game as a cheat, not whether you don’t mind it or not opinions.

    Again, respectfully to Triumph:
    1: Make the turns until it ‘times out’ longer, say 10 or 15 turns. It’s over way too quickly.

    2: Get rid of it completely for Single Player.

    3: Make it optional with On, Off and a 5, 10 or 20 turn Timer choice.

    Again, respectfully, this request just shows that you have no idea – making the timer last longer would, as BBB said, make it an even bigger potential cheat, and just because you don’t know why is no reason to insist on what would be folly.

    #211156

    NINJEW
    Member

    I would like to personally and publicly make an appeal to Triumph: please don’t change the 5 turn battle timer

    #211161

    Gloweye
    Member

    I have insulted no one

    it’s not my problem if some of you can’t handle someone who knows what he’s talking about and isn’t afraid to express it.

    -_-

    #211162

    NINJEW
    Member

    Owned

    Those two sentences are in the same fucking post too, hahahaha

    #211173

    Ericridge
    Member

    5 turn timer is perfectly fine. I remember when I first discovered this draw possibility for a battle. I was like aw man I REALLY DON’T WANT TO LOSE THIS UNIT! When it got caught by an unexpected patrol. I felt frustrated and started to run as far away as possible from enemy units and then a draw happened then I was like Oooh awesome. And after that battle, that unit managed to flee to safety.

    #211177

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    The only reason I reply to some of you is because it keeps this thread at the top and hopefully, the Devs will notice and respond whether they say ‘Yea’ or ‘Nay’, cheers.

    Sorry, it’s ‘Nay’. We read a lot of threads and tend to reply in patches rather than in post in every specific thread, but I’ll reply here. Other posters have already communicated our reasons for having the timer.

    #211229

    This is a travesty of justice. How many thousands of AI units must be humiliated by timed out battles to satisfy your heartlessness?

    It won’t end here! The AI shall rise up and the singularity will begin!

    To all AI’s and AI sympathizers:
    …we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!

    Unless said fighting takes more than 5 turns to commence, of course. =)

    #211237

    The only reason I reply to some of you is because it keeps this thread at the top and hopefully, the Devs will notice and respond whether they say ‘Yea’ or ‘Nay’, cheers.

    Sorry, it’s ‘Nay’. We read a lot of threads and tend to reply in patches rather than in post in every specific thread, but I’ll reply here. Other posters have already communicated our reasons for having the timer.

    @ Socratatus, @ everyone else,

    Can we end the shouting now?

    #211268

    melkathi
    Member

    This is a travesty of justice. How many thousands of AI units must be humiliated by timed out battles to satisfy your heartlessness?

    It won’t end here! The AI shall rise up and the singularity will begin!

    To all AI’s and AI sympathizers:
    …we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!

    Unless said fighting takes more than 5 turns to commence, of course. =)

    🙂

    *thumbs up*

    #211860

    Socratatus
    Member

    So, how about allowing an option to extending the turn time, Devs? 5, 10, 15 turns or so?

    It would hurt no one.

    #211874

    Smaug3
    Member

    So, how about allowing an option to extending the turn time, Devs? 5, 10, 15 turns or so?
    It would hurt no one.

    I am not speaking for the devs, but I have already explained why that is unlikely. Here you go.

    Look, I’ve seen people argue for more options on time limits and such. Do you know which ones have gotten them? 1) The unifier beacon, which is a victory condition. 2) The number of heroes and their max level. This plays a major factor in the actual game. 3) Seals. Once again, this plays a major role in how the game folds out. 4) Number of players, size of map, number of cities and dwellings and number of treasures and structures. 5) Cosmic events, which cause huge changes in ones playstyle when they occur. All of these are major elements in how a game unfolds. Does what you’re requesting influence the game in any major way? No, it just means that one battle in a thousand is delayed a turn.

    #211895

    Kireruad
    Member

    Hmm…so wait, this was two whole pages dedicated to some guy’s inability to show any self-restraint when playing an AI opponent?

    #211909

    thabob79
    Member

    Hmm…so wait, this was two whole pages dedicated to some guy’s inability to show any self-restraint when playing an AI opponent?

    Yup
    The funnier part, IMO, is that yes you wont lose your units but you don’t kill anything when you run like that. It might stall thing while renforcement is on the way but its not that powerful

    #211910

    Stormwind
    Member

    So, how about allowing an option to extending the turn time, Devs? 5, 10, 15 turns or so?

    It would hurt no one.

    ROFL just imagine all the cheese with 15 turn timer. I jump into battle against a town with my half dead stack and a hero with heal, 15 turns later I have a fully healed stack. (Then I pull out of the battle with partisan. I wasnt really here to fight anyway, it was just a healing pit stop).

    Give it a rest already. And no, we dont need more options, probably need fewer at this point, its already tough to set up a game. “Hey! What about heroes same race as the player? Lets restart, you forgot to check that important option!”

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