Dreadnought and druid heroes – underwhelming?

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dreadnought and druid heroes – underwhelming?

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This topic contains 36 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by  apopov 8 years ago.

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  • #86812

    CrazyElf
    Member

    Among the hero units, it seems that dreadnought and druid tend to be I think the most underwhelming.

    The dreadnought hero, if you get an offer – they’re not that useful unless you are a dreadnought yourself I find. Maybe if you’re a theocrat with a few shrines they can be helpful.

    The druid I find to be generally lackluster. They don’t offer that many great bonuses I think.

    I tend to decline dreadnought heroes when I’m not a dreadnought and in general, druid heroes.

    Do these heroes need new abilities or some type of buff?

    #86820

    Leathandair
    Member

    Well I can’t really say I am playing my first game but it’s been an epic on a large map and I am really enjoying the druid class and spells, and I find my druid heros to be pretty good wasp swarm or whatever, does decent damage especially if a group is bunched upto 80hp damage, heal is useful especially at low tiers 25hp for 10 manna, rust is useful against machines, roots 20 hp and 2 turn 50% movement penalty, suffocate 15hp for 10 manna, then if you are facing a stone city can’t remember the name but effectively roots that attack the whole length of the wall for 17hp damange every turn, after turn 3 the stone gates are down… and in we go… the resurect if you can get it at higher tier. As for other classes I only really found last stand warrior to be exceptional and poison dart, and one in the theocrat range. But I don’t really have much experience with these so maybe the Druid is underpowered by comparison, have not had a Dreadnought or Sorcerer hero so no comment there either.

    #86826

    I’d say that Archdruid heroes aren’t good stack leaders, but are excellent assistant heroes as is.

    They probably need to offer a “pan elemental” buff, rather than just for frost, which is only useful when fighting rogues. a spirit ranged damage bonus would also be pretty useful.

    Healing, entangle, a default longbow, and extra base hp, on the other hand, are quite useful. Swimming and path-finding also make them able to keep up with floating/flying units. The spells are also only slightly inferior to a sorcerers.

    As for the Dreadnought, I generally only take them if I’m a theocrat or Dreadnought (for the repair machine), and most of their abilities are tied to machine armies. Nevertheless, iron heart is a great ability, and shock resistance is useful for sorcerer fighting.

    Also, instead of declining the offer, you should kill the hero for a free item.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by  President.
    #86836

    Kaiosama TLJ
    Member

    Dreadnought Heroes can help in repairing your Trebuchets and Battering Rams and can sabotage the ones of you enemy if you don’t have a Rogue to do it. Also they still have potential to be decent frontline warriors and army captains since they have Armored and can learn Inflict Immolation, Imperial Authority, among other things.

    As for Archdruids… Well, maybe I can agree with you a little bit, but it’s more on the basis that I don’t have a clue how to build one decently as I got few of them randomly, and I not played the Archdruid class yet to know how it works in general.

    #86844

    Do Arch Druid heroes not get to learn Insect Swarm?

    Because if they do, that automatically makes them the best heroes imaginable, because that spell is insanely potent.

    If not, then I can see how they’re lackluster.

    #86850

    marceror
    Member

    Yes, they get insect swarm. I’ve been generally happy with my arch Druid heroes. I find that they can pull their weight.

    #86852

    Jomungur
    Member

    I have to admit, dread heroes aren’t terrific. But a few things. They can get vision upgrade and true sight, which is a nice combo to have. They start out with good stats (highest defense), so they get high defense easily if you focus on that. They get 20% physical protection later on, and inflict immolation is pretty good on all their attacks.

    I also like the upgrade that gives all of their allied troops self-destruct, kind of interesting.

    #86854

    lief1
    Member

    I think dreadnaught heroes make great tanky heroes.

    #86859

    Gamefever
    Member

    Both Dreads and Druids are fine your just not playing to their strengths.

    Dreadnaught
    Imperial Authority->This is a freeakin must have, 200 moral for all units in the stack is huge and means more critical hits which means loosely max damage.
    Dread has a riffle that hits hard and he has decent frontline stats outta the box making him a great frontliner early, slap some equipment on him and he stays that way, I’ve had one Dread soak attacks from 6 archers he had so much defense.

    Druid Heros
    Best Skill is Healing and Natural Healer especially early game when you want to roll through tons of sites for the resources while other hero led stacks are sitting around waiting to get hp back your druid is a T-Rex at an all you can eat buffet
    Befriend Animal, when do you not see fresh recruits?
    Comes with a Bow–>meaning he levels fast, very fast.
    Has a lot of movement related skills meaning your army or just your druid can really zip around…becomes advantageous when playing maps with water or lots of mountains.

    Mostly though the only hero that matters is the leader, most of my hero’s I don’t concentrate much on spells with not really much point when I don’t want one spell wonders and really spells kinda feel lackluster anyway compared to geared up heroes.

    Other than that I often don’t recruit heroes the moment they are available because they cost too much gold when I want more troops!

    #86863

    CrazyElf
    Member

    Imperial Authority->This is a freeakin must have, 200 moral for all units in the stack is huge and means more critical hits which means loosely max damage.

    The problem is that morale isn’t a huge buff in this game. A few extra crits. Not a big deal.

    #86873

    melkathi
    Member

    Arch Druids get that insect swarm spell people have mentioned. Yes it is awesome.
    I also like the vines that deal constant damage to walls during a siege.
    Befriend Animal is always good since it offers a chance of free troops – especially if your opponent is an Arch Druid and likely to have summoned armies.
    Natural healer may actually work great when leading a stack of Exalted. As long as the hero is alive at the end, all Exalted will come back with ressurgence and natural healer will have them ready for the next battle in no time. That way a druid hero can lead a great kamikaze/meat-shield stack to support the Theocrat leader during large sieges.

    edit:
    moral seems trivial until you have a stack with “worst” morale. When they suddenly do only crit fumbles, that Imperial Authority becomes really attractive.
    Such as when my evil sorceress was only getting dedicated to good griffin from her summons 🙂

    #86875

    Harv
    Member

    Druid vines negate walls and can be gotten at level 8, with only one CP upgrade needed to cast. It’s my favorite class of hero to start out with.

    Dreadnought is just a rifle + an immolating firebomb in my experience, pretty underwhelming.

    #86877

    Best Skill is Healing and Natural Healer especially early game when you want to roll through tons of sites for the resources while other hero led stacks are sitting around waiting to get hp back

    Theocrats get both these leader upgrades too, but they get them earlier than the Druid.
    That said, Vengeful Vines is the best siege spell in the game, and means that I will always love having a druid or two around. Dreadnoughts, however, I find rather weak unless I build them into melee tanks, where their initial extra defense can be put to good use. Even then, I think warlords are a bit better since they can give 20% physical resistance to their entire army, rather than just to the hero.

    #86879

    Dreadnoughts are not as bad as people make them out to be, in fact they’re highly underrated. Wizard Hunters, Pest Control, +resist buffs to shock and flame, +morale and in a pinch they’re makeshift siege units with sabotage. Overall they make for fantastic node, sorcerer and druid hunters. All of their units do more damage while simultaneously reducing the damage they take themselves. Flashbang alone is an awesome spell for shutting down ranged units and a rifle is never to be underestimated on a cavalry unit. Granted a lot of their other spells are markedly less useful but over all I like having a Dread around. Especially as a Warlord, as you also get the global spell “Hero Slaying” for all your units. That, along side the Dreads buffs, means a Dreads army with have +dmg to just about everything that isn’t humanoid.

    Druids on the other hand are ok. They’re decent support but not much beyond that. However if you rank them up for casting points Insect Swarm and especially Vengeful Vines are utterly amazing abilities.

    #86924

    Reefpirate
    Member

    My favourite part about Dreadnaught heroes is their prototype rifle or whatever it’s called. And yes their def bonuses are nice too.

    #86936

    Sathra
    Member

    I like Dreads for their toughness and Imperial Authority. Mostly because I always find that shield that gives Bard Skills. That’s +500 morale base, then add Empire or terrain buffs.

    Very handy.

    #86950

    Bouh
    Member

    A dreadnaught hero is a war machine and one of my prefered army leader ! Between the resistances, moral and all the non humanoid salyer abilities he gives to the army, I rate him far above a sorcerer for exemple. And the armor, it’s so easy to give him more than 15 armor it’s absurd, and the rifle is insanely powerful on top of that !

    The druid is more of a support hero, but I like him for his spells. Vines, roots and insect swarm are awesome spells. He also have good healing and support abilities. And the bow alone make an archdruid hero very powerful.

    In short, no they aren’t underwhelming at all. In fact, these two are the first heroes I managed to make really brutal army leaders.

    The hero I have the most trouble with is the sorcerer. He is frail, like a druid, but have less support abilities than a druid.

    #86986

    The hero I have the most trouble with is the sorcerer. He is frail, like a druid, but have less support abilities than a druid.

    really? With all the best spells, inflict stun, spirit breaking, phase, floating and shock damage? They can become veritable dps machines second only to the rogue, and sphere of protection makes them far more physically protected than anything except a warlord with martial arts (which you can craft in an item forge). Late in the game, they are by far the best, since they are the best at long range spell casting, and can beat anything without both spirit and shock resistance in melee (or with their ranged attack).

    not to mention full invisibility as an ultimate upgrade. Only the Theocrat’s immortal squad upgrade is better.

    And if you have a sorcerer leader, you not only get the + fifty casting points and half spell cost from age of magic (not included in the tome of wonders, but a true effect), but also guaranteed flying (if you are willing to summon a few extra mounts up).

    #86995

    eSmokefish
    Member

    I can’t say I’m all that impressed by Archdruid heroes so far, perhaps I would be if they had some army-wide benefits for animal/monster/summoned units I would.

    Dreadnaughts though? Oh man, I love these guys. They not only eventually come with Fire Bomb that you can make into the almighty BENGAY BOMB, can get tunneling/repair machine for some utility on the way however small, 20% Physical Protection, but also come with two really neat army-wide benefit checks.

    Wizard Hunters & Pest Control Squad. Thats Summoned, Monster, Fey and whateverelse Slayer abilities. Summoned AND Monster slayer? Thats +6 Damage against 80%+ of all summons to my knowledge, something regular archers can certainly benefit from.

    When I play my Draconian Warlord I tend to make it a goal to get a High Elf Dreadnaught and a High Elf City just so I can put that Dreadnaught in charge of five High Elf Mounted Archers. So far thats a real sweet deal. In single player of course, as I do not do multiplayer a whole lot, much to my great shame.

    I also need to try and get a Sorcerer hero kitted out for Melee combat now that I think of it, when I play as my Warlord again, Inflict Stun/Spirit Breaking sounds hilarious for a melee build with all the Warlord Benefit Checks that Heroes can get.

    #87029

    PurpleFanta
    Member

    The way I build my druid heroes is basically just All ranged damage, with a few utility skills.

    Long bows are incredibly good. Once you hit about 16 ranged damage it starts one shotting low-mid tier units.

    Although you can do this on any character you get a longbow with, its easiest with ArchDruid.

    But I completely agree. I just dont really find archdruid heroes to have as many good skills available to them. I guess they can just be stat-stackers, or casting specialists, but their passive selection is very limited if you want hard hitting abilities.

    #87041

    chronobomb
    Member

    My favorite ability is the Druid’s mass slow(vines). This ability means most units will never reach your line of archers before the’re dead.

    Also it keeps your units from being flanked as the units don’t have enough move points to get behind a unit.

    This is a great ability to use with a Dreadnought leader and all their artillery. Most of Sorcery armies float so he’s a great secondary for them too. All Druids need is an anti flyer ability to become the perfect support hero.

    Dreadnought heroes are awesome tanks. I can get their def to 20 quickly and watch them solo a whole army(not recommended). They don’t need to waste your spell turn because their rifle will one shot many tier 1-2’s with the right lvl buffs.

    #87048

    Bouh
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bouh wrote:</div>
    The hero I have the most trouble with is the sorcerer. He is frail, like a druid, but have less support abilities than a druid.

    really? With all the best spells, inflict stun, spirit breaking, phase, floating and shock damage? They can become veritable dps machines second only to the rogue, and sphere of protection makes them far more physically protected than anything except a warlord with martial arts (which you can craft in an item forge). Late in the game, they are by far the best, since they are the best at long range spell casting, and can beat anything without both spirit and shock resistance in melee (or with their ranged attack).

    not to mention full invisibility as an ultimate upgrade. Only the Theocrat’s immortal squad upgrade is better.

    And if you have a sorcerer leader, you not only get the + fifty casting points and half spell cost from age of magic (not included in the tome of wonders, but a true effect), but also guaranteed flying (if you are willing to summon a few extra mounts up).

    I didn’t said he was bad, only I have the most problems using him. And what I wanted to underline was that it is a matter of playstyle too.

    Sphere of protection is a spell (one turn of immobilisation) and only protect for two turns BTW. That’s far less practical than the inate toughness of the dreadnaught.

    #87182

    smeagolheart
    Member

    As others have said Dreadnaughts aren’t bad at all and can be very tanky. I’ve not enjoyed at all arch druid heroes. The best thing to do with them is to kill them and give the bow to any other hero you have and wait for a better hero to join.

    #87222

    Sahuagin
    Member

    druids have Vengeful Vines, which is pretty OPd, especially with the AI still hiding behind walls that aren’t there anymore. (rather than hitting every single wall every single turn, it should really damage up to X number of wall tiles per turn.)

    other than that, insect swarm is kind of nice, but otherwise, yes there’s not much else that really stands out for me (I have not played any random maps yet though, just 99% of the campaign).

    #87228

    I didn’t said he was bad, only I have the most problems using him. And what I wanted to underline was that it is a matter of playstyle too

    I was just shocked is all, as one of the complaints in beta was that the sorcerer was too all around good at every role a hero could do.

    #87240

    Bouh
    Member

    I was just shocked is all, as one of the complaints in beta was that the sorcerer was too all around good at every role a hero could do.

    He doesn’t have enough armor for me. Any mistake and he’ll die in no time. 🙁
    But I just need to work on this.^^

    #87250

    Epaminondas
    Member

    He doesn’t have enough armor for me. Any mistake and he’ll die in no time. :-(<br>
    But I just need to work on this.^^

    That indicates that you don’t know how to level up/equip/use the hero – rather than that the hero is under-powered.

    It’s probably the most OP hero when abstract leader qualities.

    #87305

    smeagolheart
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bouh wrote:</div>
    He doesn’t have enough armor for me. Any mistake and he’ll die in no time. :-(<br><br>
    But I just need to work on this.^^

    That indicates that you don’t know how to level up/equip/use the hero – rather than that the hero is under-powered.

    It’s probably the most OP hero when abstract leader qualities.

    yeah sorceror is probably a better warrior than the warrior. Spend some points in HP and defense and you are a better warrior than a warrior floating around firing stun bolts with physical damage reduction, 100% spirit reduction and whatnot.

    #87350

    Bouh
    Member

    That indicates that you don’t know how to level up/equip/use the hero – rather than that the hero is under-powered.

    Rofl ! I never ever said a sorcerer hero was underpowered ! I only ever said *I* had trouble with him, and indeed that is a lot more obviously due to my inexperience than an imbalance.

    Same goes for the archdruid I’d say, in regards to this thread…

    #87417

    vota dc
    Member

    When I play my Draconian Warlord I tend to make it a goal to get a High Elf Dreadnaught and a High Elf City just so I can put that Dreadnaught in charge of five High Elf Mounted Archers. So far thats a real sweet deal. In single player of course, as I do not do multiplayer a whole lot, much to my great shame.

    If you stick the Dreadnought with your Warlord leader you can get a hero with 40% physical protection and 100% immune to spiritual. With a Rogue that could be 80% physical protection until the end of the battle.

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