Dreadnought combat spells at low tier are lackluster

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dreadnought combat spells at low tier are lackluster

This topic contains 16 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Nerdfish 7 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 17 total)
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  • #184081

    greyclouds
    Member

    I raised this issue in the v1.5 beta forums, but I think that it bears repeating now that the expansion is out.

    I feel that “repair fortification” should be replaced and that “flashbang” might need a slight buff (maybe an area of effect?) to justify it’s mana cost compared to the engineer version of “flashbang.”

    Also, allowing independent dreadnought heroes the ability to purchase “weapon kit” at level 3 would allow the use of this spell far earlier — when it is at it’s peak effectiveness.

    #184140

    ninninnin
    Member

    oh man, dreadnought spells are so situational its criminal that they dont start with all 4. forcefield can be one of the best buffs in the game. but again very situational.
    if i were to buff flashbang i would reduce its mana cost to 7 so they can cast it twice without an invention upgrade. the same deal with weapon kit, which is still a situational spell thats rarely worth taking.
    hell i dont think reducing weapon kit to 5 cp would be too much.

    i always thought weapon kit was too high level a spell for what it gives both as a hero upgrade or as a research.
    theres no way its on the same level as reassemble yet there it is. another situational spell clogging up your research book that gives sabotage to a class that has all of 1 unit that cant damage walls.

    #184146

    Brandon_354
    Member

    In another thread someone suggestion making flashbang and weapon kit active abilities with cool downs and I would support that idea.

    #184153

    Ericridge
    Member

    Sometimes I wish there was Mass Forcefield for all my units whenever I fight a sorcerer that spams apprentices.

    #184157

    Marcus
    Member

    Although situational you can make it useful, I love the combination of Overload with Force field on Golems. You both lower the chance of stun from Overload by raising Golem’s shock resistance and make it incredibly resilient, strong hitting tank.
    Even better if your leader happens to have Lightning Rod Banner perk the chances of them getting stunned from Overload are minuscule at best.

    #184160

    Brandon_354
    Member

    Although situational you can make it useful, I love the combination of Overload with Force field on Golems. You both lower the chance of stun from Overload by raising Golem’s shock resistance and make it incredibly resilient, strong hitting tank.<br>
    Even better if your leader happens to have Lightning Rod Banner perk the chances of them getting stunned from Overload are minuscule at best.

    But you also just spent 2 turns buffing a golem and tying up your leader/hero, 2 turns that are wasted if it is dispelled (which the ai loves to do when you stack buffs, and keep in mind leaders are not the only ones who can do so) or when you were probably better of with buffs that affect all your units or all the enemy’s units.

    #184165

    Marcus
    Member

    @brandon_354

    If you’re not rushing into the battle on every occasion there is plenty of space to use it in both MP and SP.

    It’s a t2 spell, if you’re looking for something that affects all units there are Choking Fumes or Dampening field.

    I agree on dispelling though, it shouldn’t be so easy.

    #184202

    Ericridge
    Member

    Although situational you can make it useful, I love the combination of Overload with Force field on Golems. You both lower the chance of stun from Overload by raising Golem’s shock resistance and make it incredibly resilient, strong hitting tank.<br>
    Even better if your leader happens to have Lightning Rod Banner perk the chances of them getting stunned from Overload are minuscule at best.

    Nah, Stun chance from Overload is Physical not shock.

    Tombles himself said it few months ago while ppls was talking about global mechanization and overload spells.

    #184212

    Stormwind
    Member

    I wish there was something to make dreadnought heroes more useful to non-dreadnoughts. its the only hero class I routinely turn down, ,unless I am playing a dreadnought.

    #184221

    terrahero
    Member

    I wish there was something to make dreadnought heroes more useful to non-dreadnoughts. its the only hero class I routinely turn down, ,unless I am playing a dreadnought.

    If you turn him down on other classes, why pick one when playing Dreadnought?

    #184233

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Stormwind wrote:</div>
    I wish there was something to make dreadnought heroes more useful to non-dreadnoughts. its the only hero class I routinely turn down, ,unless I am playing a dreadnought.

    If you turn him down on other classes, why pick one when playing Dreadnought?

    Because Repair Machine and Rapid Reload and (to a lesser extent) Overload are amazing when your army is full of machines. Not so much when all you have is a couple of trebuchets somewhere.

    #184250

    terrahero
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>terrahero wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Stormwind wrote:</div><br>
    I wish there was something to make dreadnought heroes more useful to non-dreadnoughts. its the only hero class I routinely turn down, ,unless I am playing a dreadnought.

    If you turn him down on other classes, why pick one when playing Dreadnought?

    Because Repair Machine and Rapid Reload and (to a lesser extent) Overload are amazing when your army is full of machines. Not so much when all you have is a couple of trebuchets somewhere.

    You can get Repair Machine from the Item Forge now. And if you play a Dreadnought you can already have all those skills, not like a Dreadnought is strapping for mana/cp as most spells are fairly situational. I personally dont like Overload because of the drawback of getting stunned.

    A Dreadnought hero doesnt really add much more to a Dreadnought than it does to anything else. I dont think Rapid Reload, which takes up your hero’s turn, is really that big of a selling point if you think they arent worth it without Rapid Reload.

    I’d say Dreadnought heroes are lacking in combat, lacking in spells and lacking late-game options. Bomb Squad and Treecrusher are kinda rubish and prohibitively expensive.
    They have decent group buffs, but so does every other hero.

    #184263

    Eji1700
    Member

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/dread-leadersheros/page/2/

    I just made a very long post there going over the hero (who I feel is better than people think, but could still use some buffs). I did mention the spells being an issue.

    Some thoughts:

    1. I’d really like it if each race or class or both got a unique machine. This helps with some of the machine only stuff. If it would buff dreadnaught too much, you could make it each class gets 1, and then not give the dread an extra unit. Or maybe just a few more machines in general (ballista? Siege tower?)

    2. Spells:

    Flash bang- I think it’s fine? Maybe a small numbers tweak? Or just have it proc a “disorient” or some other effect if they resist?

    Force field- It’s fine in my eyes.

    Repair fortification- agreed, get rid of it. It’s way too conditional and totally worthless on offense. On defense it’s the sort of spell where you’d be better off with almost anything else (walls being destroyable in general is sorta…a non feature given how little it matters).

    Overload- I’m ok with them having some class specific stuff, and again if we add more machines other than trebs and rams (which are both really really meh?) it would help make it even more useful outside of class.

    Reassemble- basically same as overload. It’s very very good in class, and the lack of real machine usage by any other class is the biggest issue.

    Weapon kit- I think this is a little weak given where it’s at. For a tier 3 spell i’ts really underwhelming. It’s not exactly bad, just not really feeling the supposed “tier 3” of it.

    Summon siege- Always good

    Choking fumes- I like it. Even outside of dread or necro (and btw necro LOVES dread heroes). It’s not that hard to get an army that’s mostly if not completely immune, and even if your army isn’t ranged damage isn’t affected.

    Dampening field- amazing

    Destabilized core- I personally wish it was more damage but multi channel sometimes, but whatever. It’s a good spell.

    #184520

    greyclouds
    Member

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/dread-leadersheros/page/2/

    I just made a very long post there going over the hero (who I feel is better than people think, but could still use some buffs). I did mention the spells being an issue.

    I liked your summary post. Here are some suggestions/comments:

    • To distinguish the spell, flashbang, from the engineer version, how about giving it a chance to inflict daze and scorched as well? This way, it becomes a great debuff like “stiffen limbs.”
    • I’d imagine that the devs would prefer to keep spell icons, so how about keeping the “repair fortification” icon, changing the name to “repair construct” and then allow it to heal machine units (for a lesser amount) as well?
    • I agree that weapon kit needs a buff. Three options: (1) it gives “firebomb” (a grenade) as well to the unit, (2) it gives ALL infantry and pikemen the abilities for 2 turns or (3) you can purchase it at level 3 for dread heroes.
    • I also agree with you that other classes need better access to machine units in order for dreadnought heroes to really shine. Maybe a ballista that is buildable after the Builder’s hall for all races? There already is a “fire ballista” skill on the Frigate warship. Perhaps make the ballista shot have an area of effect of two hexes in a straight line, but do not allow it to crush walls (so, similar to a cannon, but noticeably weaker)?
    #184588

    Nerdfish
    Member

    Weapon kit need to inflict physical weakness, and make it so it can cast on any unit.

    #184593

    Brandon_354
    Member

    Weapon kit need to inflict physical weakness, and make it so it can cast on any unit.

    Wait….so you want to make an already underused spell worse by making the one you cast it on have a weakness? Id prefer it A. become an active or B. affect all available friendly units at the price of costing more cp.

    #184597

    Nerdfish
    Member

    No Bradon. I want to make it something like the star blade. Cast it on any of your units, and it inflicts say 40% physical weakness on melee or ranged attack.

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