Dwarf Racial Governance Tier I

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Dwarf Racial Governance Tier I

This topic contains 17 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Seamus the Bold 6 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #217158

    LordCameron
    Member

    I’ve had a few ideas for the tier one dwarf economic racial government bonus. Let me know what you think.

    1. Prospectors get lava walking

    2. All heroes get tunneling

    3. Get max gold every time you tunnel instead of 2-5

    4. Get mana in addition to gold when tunneling

    5. Prospectors use up less movement to tunnel

    6. Prospectors can tunnel through mountains (But since they are so short only Dwarve’s goblins and halflings may use tunnels.)

    Last one is only semi-serious 😉

    #217183

    NINJEW
    Member

    i like the current economic rg. i don’t think there’s a serious need to tie it to tunneling, and the current rg reflects the dwarve’s preference as a defensive race. it also has basically 0 potential to be op, while also being fairly helpful, so i think it’s in a fine place balance wise.

    #217188

    LordCameron
    Member

    I’ll agree with not needing to tie to tunneling, but, and this is completely subjective, I find a plus X unit points less than exciting.

    I like what you said about how it emphasizes their defensiveness though. It gives me another way to look at it.

    Maybe more wall hitpoints?

    #217220

    NINJEW
    Member

    isn’t that just plus X unit points?

    that’s also not a very economic advantage

    #217268

    Zaskow
    Member

    i like the current economic rg. i don’t think there’s a serious need to tie it to tunneling, and the current rg reflects the dwarve’s preference as a defensive race. it also has basically 0 potential to be op, while also being fairly helpful, so i think it’s in a fine place balance wise.

    Current dwarven eco1 is useless for necro completely.

    #217275

    NINJEW
    Member

    yeah that does kind of suck. what kind of pro necro bonus could it be given?

    usually the answer is +pop, but that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense conceptually (wow sure are getting more dead bodies out of having some walls around).

    #217280

    LordCameron
    Member

    isn’t that just plus X unit points?

    that’s also not a very economic advantage

    Yeah, you are right.

    I still think my first suggestions have some merit, especially the lava walking, though that borders economic and military.

    #217358

    What do mean by tunneling the mountains? Does it work as the same as create road but on mountains?

    #217405

    I actually like the current happiness bonus, much better than the old one!

    1. Don’t really like that one. Just does not feel rigth to me giving lava walking to a regular guy working in the mines.

    2. All heroes get tunneling: THat would be an interesting idea but only really feasable if “Heros match player race” is activated as only dwarven heros should be allowed to get the bonus. In addition: dreadnaught heros would not have much of a bonus.

    3. Get max gold every time you tunnel instead of 2-5: well isn’t that exactly what we had before? guess there was a reason to change it. I remember many complained about it uselessness when playing wihtout underground.

    4. Get mana in addition to gold when tunneling: interesting idea but see comment on 3.

    5. Prospectors use up less movement to tunnel: also interesting and quite theme fitting, but also see criticism at 3. and i would like the old bonus much better than this one

    6. Prospectors can tunnel through mountains (But since they are so short only Dwarve’s goblins and halflings may use tunnels.)
    Not quite sure if I understand the concept, but it sounds like quite a complicated thing to add and a complete new skill

    #217410

    NINJEW
    Member

    guys i think this might be a bit more pertinent of an area of discussion:

    yeah that does kind of suck. what kind of pro necro bonus could it be given?

    usually the answer is +pop, but that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense conceptually (wow sure are getting more dead bodies out of having some walls around).

    #217413

    well the other type of bonus for necro that comes at hand is bonus income, that is gold mana or production (either a percentage or a fixed amount)

    #217414

    ExNihil
    Member

    IMO the Dwarvn RG are for the most part complete crap, I’d like to see them replaced.

    #217499

    Motasa
    Member

    IMO the Dwarvn RG are for the most part complete crap, I’d like to see them replaced.

    Have to agree to a certain extent. But so are some tiers in the RG of other races. I think most economic options in the RG of almost all races are redundant, maybe less so on large or extra large maps with few cities.

    I disliked the tier I economic bonus for Dwarfs, since I not always play with underground and when I do, I minimize the amount of walls. But I dislike the Human and Tigran tier 1 even more. I think the current option – extra happiness for a stone wall – is a decent one.

    #217798

    Gloweye
    Member

    There’s a solution for the Necro Tier 1 on the way – open Beta is gonna get +15 Production on Stone Walls as a test run. No change for living classes that I’m aware of, though. Didn’t pop up in the beta forums.

    #217906

    Fenraellis
    Member

    There’s a solution for the Necro Tier 1 on the way – open Beta is gonna get +15 Production on Stone Walls as a test run. No change for living classes that I’m aware of, though. Didn’t pop up in the beta forums.

    For what it’s worth, I already commented that I believe it should only be +10 for a couple of reasons…(compare to Siege Workshop also at 100 Gold cost for Dwarves, and perhaps even more importantly, compare to other T1 Econ bonuses, circumstantial value of Settler Cost aside, in general)

    #217962

    Gloweye
    Member

    Yeah, I kind of agree, but Siege Workshop has the advantages of going to Master’s Guild..anyway, I’m glad it’s getting something else than just a Pop boost.

    #218078

    SiaFu
    Member

    How about a terrain-hex based bonus similar to goblins racial bonuses?
    For every mountain or underground rock hex Dwarves could get some gold bonus (e.g. freelance civilian prospectors at work). Necro dwarves could get a production bonus.

    I hope it wouldn’t be a pain to balance, and since there would be no way to change terrain into rock cavern walls or mountains the Necromancer again would have no use for Terraform (except with Goblin wetlands).

    Still, I’d like all races to eventually have some per-hex city bonuses like the Goblins. It would make city founding, population morale management and terraforming more like grand strategy empire building games. Necromancers would probably have a whole other set of bonuses which could make things complicated.

    Regarding Stone Fort production bonuses, this would be a huge improvement for early Necro play. Without population morale bonuses and city happiness events expansion’s usually slow, and relies on Plagues to boost population growth. As a result, I tend to make more builders and forts and mostly delay settling as it’s a large expenditure in population. Even +10 production from Stone forts would shorten the time an Outpost builds a Builders Hall by 1 turn and make it more attractive to settle.

    And dwarven economy governance bonuses aren’t that bad if you don’t use dwarven units in your armies. If you have time (say, in an XL game) to build up a city with treasure site production bonuses – it can be a great Arcane Forge, even though Pool of the Firstborn is an expensive upgrade tree for just +20 production (and +50% for cheerful). You’ll have to absorb a lot of dwarven cities to up the Racial Governance, though – so it’s more of a late-game thing.

    The level III bonus would make more sense on an Arcane Forge, to match the level IV bonus of cheaper Forging. If you’re planning to produce Firstborn in a city, chances are you’d prefer them getting their level III military bonus – so it doesn’t make sense to produce them a little faster without it (when you choose Pool +20prod).

    #218084

    For every mountain or underground rock hex Dwarves could get some gold bonus (e.g. freelance civilian prospectors at work).

    Nice idea. Especially constant gold income from cavern walls and mountains would perfectly synergate with the happiness bonus due to preferred terrain.

    The level III bonus would make more sense on an Arcane Forge, to match the level IV bonus of cheaper Forging. If you’re planning to produce Firstborn in a city, chances are you’d prefer them getting their level III military bonus – so it doesn’t make sense to produce them a little faster without it (when you choose Pool +20prod).

    Also like this idea, because it is basivcally the reason why I have never ever taken tier3 economic. In short games I almost never ever built more than one pool of the firstorn.

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