Experience of units and heroes

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Experience of units and heroes

This topic contains 34 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  BlaneckW 9 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 35 total)
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  • #1016

    veso_mitev
    Member

    In previous AoWs the experience in combat was granted with the killing blow.

    I don’t find that idea very appealing considering the goal in AOW3 is to make the battles go faster.

    Previously I had skipped units and turns,  just to level up particular unit. It’s kind of cheesy.

    (couldn’t find search function, to see if the topic is already in)

    #1019

    Deus_Mortis
    Member

    Just dont make this game casual and primitive, plz!!!

     

    #1020

    Calmar
    Member

    I agree with Deus Mortis – no simplification please!

    #1025

    leomund
    Member

    I did the same thing (as do most probably) skipping attackers, but I did add an element of risk reward.  Sometimes you skip a number of attackers and then your low HP hero misses and gets killed in a counter attack.  As such, I don’t mind the original system, but would be curious to hear ways to improve it.  Just dolling out XP to every unit might create its own problems of just having tag along units that never fight but get levelled up.

    #1026

    ggW
    Member

    But that mechanic is easily tailored by the player. If you want fast combat, you probably won’t even notice the exp bonus on kblows. Those that love strategic depth are gonna find it an interesting addition.

    One thing i used to do in battles of secondary importance was try to give killing blows to my hero while not losing any of my other units(or the hero himself). It often was a very hard thing to achieve and it helped me go through those battles that otherwise woulda have been boring time fillers.

    Since you’re not forced to use it, I really don’t see a good reason to remove it.

     

    #1028

    Fimbul
    Member

    Don’t dumb it down. as i already wrote at #980 AoW battle system is great!

    maybe this with Exp could be an option. so that only killing blow gets exp is an optional rule that can be switched off. but if so, then should the exp evenly spread to all units that survived the battle, that means all progress, but on a slower rate than killing blow only, where the unit get’s the whole amount for itself.

    but, if just one of this two approaches are in, then definitely only killing blow gets exp!!! it gives the AoW serie such a great atmosphere. you love your units, you try a special unit to level up and you care about, so even just simple units get a Character and a History, you know stories to tell how this unit started, what battles it saw where it barely survived and when it turned the outcome of a battle in your favour! Keep this great atmosphere!

    #1029

    Inlaa
    Member

    I really don’t see how a change concerning how experience is given would make the game simpler.

    Let’s just say, theoretically, that instead of experience being divied out solely based on the killing blow, it was partly from the killing blow and partly from whoever did damage to the creature in general.

    We will now use arbitrary numbers (with the understanding that these are not necessarily the best possible numbers to use) concerning the matter of how experience could be granted.  We have three creatures: A, B, and C.  A did 10% of the damage and got the killing blow.  B did 30% of the total damage.  C did 60% of the total damage.  Let’s also assume that the formula for experience gain is something like…

    Killing Blow = 50% of the experience.  This means that whoever lands the killing blow gains 50% of the experience.
    Creatures who deal damage to the target creature – damage, not status effects – also gain experience based on how much damage they actually deal.
    Given that 50% of the experience is given automatically to the one who dealt the most damage, the remaining damage can be spread among both that character and the other parties by: %damagedealt/2 = %xpvalue

    So, in our example with its arbitrary numbers, creature A would receive 55% of all the experience, creature B would receive 15%, and creature C would receive 30%.  This means that all participating parties get SOME measure of experience, but the killing blow is still the most important thing.

    Other things that would need to be considered would be “How do wizard spells (the spells of your leader) affect experience gained?” (I would personally say they grant experience to whoever gets the killing blow or else would be divided among all damaging participants.)  “What if the unit somehow kills themself?” “What if creatures die after dealing damage to the target?”  These are important things to be considered.

    One last thing: Whether the experience for dealing damage is granted upon death or upon the damage being dealt is something to consider as well.  Granting experience immediately upon damage being dealt could lead to mechanic abuse, though.  One need only use their imagination to see how.

    #1031

    Fimbul
    Member

    @inlaa

    interesting thoughts, so the killing blow would keep the main source for exp gaining but the other can get aswell some.

    if this system, then, i would say, exp is lost if the unit dies that made dmg, no spreading to the other remaining, if leader makes killing blow by himself or with spells that exp is aswell lost (or get leaders now aswell exp and lvl up?), if a enemy gets killed by flame or some other DOT caused by a unit, this unit will get the kill percentage.

    exp will only be spread after killing blow is dealt.

    #1034

    Fimbul
    Member

    PS: i know why i like Inlaas approach. it doesn’t make it simpler (try to explain it in tooltip LOL) but it makes it fairer, killing blow will still matters the most that you can level up a specific unit. thumb up!

    #1038

    LegioIX
    Member

    Experience for units & heroes is a must have, and it should be based on killing blows only. Just my 2 cents.

    #1069

    Hunter
    Member

    It would be nice to have another level of ‘rank’ or ‘medal’, so that you could still feel that units with a Gold medal were still advancing. Even if the level was very many XPs to obtain. I often feel that killing things with my good units is ‘waste’.

    Also, where units can upgrade to higher level units when they are experienced, that is a good mechanic. Makes you doubly connected to your upgraded units, when you know that you have nurtured them from a low level into a high level killing machine. Also makes you feel their loss all the more keenly.

    #1152

    ten9
    Member

    I agree with @hunter.

    I remember that in Master of Magic you could reach demi-god and god level of experience. But you could only reach that level after a very long while.

    This way it was still interesting to use your top units to give the final blow in a battle. In fact it gives you an interesting choice: Am I going to level up this top unit even further, which takes a long time, or am I going to level up more mediocre units.

    #1227

    Flenoom
    Moderator

    Hunter, I disagree. Low-tier units always have trouble with getting expirience, but high-tier units is not. So, weak units will be weakest, and strong units will be strongest, turn by turn.

    I’d rather system of unit ranks without bonuses to characteristics. “Private”, “Veteran”, “Elite”, “Living legend” etc. And killcount maybe. So unit don’t get the overpower, and don’t stop in evolution.

    #1228

    BlaneckW
    Member

    I could care less about the XP system.

    #1250

    Fimbul
    Member

    as long the silver and gold medals are in with their additionel skills and raised stats with the “current” leveling speed, i’m fine.

    it could be nice if your units could get better even after Gold medal but then on a much higher exp cost so that it will take quite a long time to lvl up and even longer for high tier units.

    or “lvling” after Gold is quite slow and you get the option to raise just one stat per lvl up (like heros) or as an archer an additionel archery lvl or so. but really on a slow rate.

    kill count and battle count (reminds me on old X-Com) would be cool, as well possibility to rename your Unit to personalize it more. (Nibri the fearless Goblinspear) 😉

    #1253

    Flenoom
    Moderator

    kill count and battle count (reminds me on old X-Com) would be cool, as well possibility to rename your Unit to personalize it more. (Nibri the fearless Goblinspear)

    Hell yeah! It’s not change balance in the game, and give a reason to keep units alive! Seriously, it’s is motivate me ))

    #1558

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    There will be more ways to get XP other than by killing blow.

    And yeah, I’m against dumbing down as well 🙂

    #1559

    Narvek, you’re swift becoming my favourite boy in blue!

     

    Even if you aren’t blue, on your own forum…

    #1560

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    Haha thanks 🙂

    And I know what you mean, although some here will probably be wondering :p

    #1599

    Campaigner
    Member

    I don’t like the focus on experienced troops since it creates a bit of a HoMM syndrome (superhero with now highlvl UNITS as well!)

     

    If XP will exist in AoW III (like it did in the previous versions) then I’d want the XP to be shared among ALL units you bring to the battle no matter who kills or not. This makes it possible for supportunits like healers and such to also get a medal sometimes.

     

    My solution

    My preference would be to only have heroes being able to get XP. They would get ALL the XP awarded in a battle no matter who inflicts the most damage or deals the killing blow. This would take away fiddling with killingblows and allow you to focus on killing the enemy any way you want!

    This is something I really want to see. My main wish for Age of Wonders III.

     

     

    Also, saying “since you’re not forced to use it, I don’t see a good reason to remove it” is completely false….

    It’s like saying “you’re not forced to build the shrine of War in your main troop training city, so there’s no reason to remove it”….

     

    If something is clearly better than something else (getting heroes the killing blows vs a cleric that doesn’t gain effectiveness with lvls) then you ARE forced to do it in order to compete against a good player that WILL do what’s most effective!

    #1601

    Jayaris
    Member

    @campaigner

    By the same merit, if heroes were guaranteed all of the experience, and the only ones to be able to get it. It would force hero-centric play. Otherwise all of the experience gained from non-hero battles would be wasted.

    #1607

    Someone else in one of the other threads came up with a pretty decent formula for sharing out the XP between units in a fight…

    #1615

    Heroic_Spur
    Member

    I actually think the current system is alright, if it’s coupled with the ability to gain xp by other means as @narvek said would be the case above. I would imagine that these might be for healing ‘x’ amount of damage, for successfully charming/dominating an enemy unit, etc.

    I also actually agree with @hunter, about another experience tier being useful.

    Currently we have silver medals and gold medals, there is an obvious candidate missing in the form of a bronze level of experience. Also, contrary to what others have said, I think this would be more helpful for lower level units, providing a greater range of levelling and consequently greater potential, particularly for the late-game. The xp requirements for bronze and silver could be similar to the current silver/gold, with the gold medal being pushed to an exponentially higher xp requirement.

    #1622

    BajiNaji
    Member

    Wouldn’t be too hard to implement a shared XP system with weighting towards the killing blow. Something like XP for kill, shared XP % from total for any assistance divided amongst all units that count. Easy to give utility units like healers XP in this way as well, since buffs and heals can count as assistance so long as the unit aided does damage.

    #1627

    I personally love the old experience system :3

    Playing as Orcs in AoW 1 was fun when I spammed Swordsmen in the early game (no Archers for me cause I’m pro like that and stuff) and any that survived would generally become veterans while the rest would die off in true Orc style ^^

    I think the thing that was potentially annoying to some players (although I either work around it or just stop caring in battles :P) is that landing a killing blow with a spell grants experience to no one in AoW 2. I’m not too sure about the spell coming from a Hero with Spellcasting, but yeah, that was a thing 😛

    #2382

    liclic
    Member

    I want to speak about path of…

    One of the major problem I found in AOWSM at least was the ability “path of”. Path of decay was an ability of  the lvl4 of undeads. The path of frost was an ability of frost sorceress and doom wolves. Frosling heroes may learn path of frost. And for path of life, it was only druids, a very fragile lvl3, and this ability was only obtained for golden druids who were really difficult to obtain !

    Why can’t more creatures receive the possibility to learn the “path of” and especially path of life ? Why not the lvl4 elfe creature would receive it as a default ?

    #2414

    Because that’s an awful idea.

    It’s not meant to be an easy thing to acquire and it wouldn’t make sense for a Steam Tank to have Path Of anything. Same applies to a lot of other level 4 units.

    It would also make the spells that alter terrain redundant in a lot of scenarios.

    That is a really, really bad idea you have there.

    #2429

    BlaneckW
    Member

    Steam Tank can have Path of Steam.  Purifies your units as the sauna removes toxins…….

    #2431

    That is a bad idea and you should feel bad.

    #2432

    liclic
    Member

    I think Mickael didn’t get the point at all… My aim was at the equilibrium in the possibility of have any path of something not in “let’s get path of anything to all lvl4”. I just wanted to start a reflexion about how to implemente such an ability and maked it more balanced if possible.

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