Facing a Duplicate Leader, Getting AI Heroes, and Other Patch Thoughts

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Facing a Duplicate Leader, Getting AI Heroes, and Other Patch Thoughts

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  • #170432

    I really hate this facing a duplicate leader. Not sure if it’s intentional or not. There’s nothing worse than starting a game, investing a significant amount of time in it, and then meeting an AI opponent who is also you. It’s so dumb and immersion shattering. That’s an instant restart.

    Also, having read the patch notes for the beta patch I see that nothing has been done about the fact that if an enemy AI surrenders to you, you get their leader as a hero. Who actually likes this feature? All it does is screw up the structure of your own set of heroes, especially when it comes to resurrection. Suddenly you find you can’t resurrect a hero because this one has been foisted on you that you don’t even want. How about an option to reject them at least.

    Also, isn’t certain leaders also being available heroes a mistake? Why would the developers be content with the possibility of two identical beings existing in a game? Why not get rid of one of the duplicates. Either keep the hero and scrap the leader or keep the leader and scrap the hero.

    No ability to change the name of heroes? I’ve never understood this. It’s one of the easiest things to allow for and yet from the very beginning Triumph have just refused to allow for it in the Age of Wonders series and don’t seem about to now. I’d genuinely be interested to know why. It’s so weird.

    Finally, is Age of Wonders 3 really going to be left without minotaurs? That’s madness.

    #170441

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I’ve complained about this for a long time; so it’s not a new problem. I really think not enough resources are being devoted to problems faced by SP players. I’ve even had 3 of the same faction leaders in a game with only 5 AI.

    Farcical.

    #170442

    Weltenreiter
    Member

    Duplicate leaders is super lame and worth a Barentz sanity check to see if a map is going to be worth playing, I agree. That’s not available to all situations and all degrees of purism though, so doesn’t mitigate it as a big problem.

    Surrender you don’t need to accept, so you can’t forcibly get your hero lineup screwed up. I forgot if surrendered leaders came with a reset of skillpoints though, would help to build mthem noncrappy if situation otherwise makes accepting surrender feasible.

    Not sure if agree with the complaint about lack of hero rename. I say either we get old school hero bios as per AoW2 back (my preferred choice), and can’t rename; or leave heroes as cardboard cut-outs with at most implicit personality (in title, and now special ability, which is great) but get rename capability. 😛

    Leader-as-hero (with non-ingame leaders) was ok when all heroes were the same except for race, now L-a-H are clear duds due to lack of special ability.

    #170450

    Usana
    Member

    I didn’t mind being unable to rename heroes in I and II because of the bios. They were each unique individuals. While we have come a bit of that way now with III, I still don’t feel the heroes as individuals, merely classes. So yeah I can see wanting a rename since there is no bio or lore for them yet(other than a title).

    Duplicates are annoying, though thankfully I haven’t ran into it yet. What I have ran into is a 4 player game with 3 elf players(Archdruid, Sorcerer, Rogue). That lone dwarf warlord must feel pretty ganged up on.

    #170455

    Nerdfish
    Member

    I don’t mind facing me. May the best me win !
    But if the AI me surrenders … the game can freeze on the next turn because the other AI isn’t sure what they should do with two of ME in the same party :3

    #170496

    I had no idea this could happen. 😛 I guess this happens with random opponents? I tend to customize mine to avoid race/class repetitions.

    #170508

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I had no idea this could happen. :P I guess this happens with random opponents? I tend to customize mine to avoid race/class repetitions.

    I’ve got 30-plus custom leaders, and it still happens.

    Frankly, it’s absolutely stupefying that you’ve never heard of this, given that you are a beta tester. The fact that you have not really highlights how MP-focused the beta testing community is – as I have so persistently lamented.

    Really, this happens A LOT.

    #170520

    Tibbles
    Member

    I’ve never seen a duplicate leader as a pure SP player, and I do very quick small maps most of the time, I start tons of them :S

    #170526

    Eliphas
    Member

    i myself have never had this happen to me, though i do play SP not MP on large maps with five to six opponents, i only chose my own hero and leave the ai’s to random chance

    #170527

    Low_K
    Member

    Haven’t experienced duplicate leaders here neither. And, as you know Ep, I am a primarily a SP player with XL maps (which means 7 AI leaders).

    Furthermore, closed-beta testers never can get all bugs out of a game. It is not possible, look at the open beta of 1.5 how much bugs there are found by other players which were missed by the closed-beta-testers. I don’t hold anything against them though, as it is bloody hard to weed out every single bug, I am glad they will iron out any obvious bugs.

    I am all for having your custom leaders appear as heroes, as asked for in various threads, so I thought I’d post here again 😉 .

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #170542

    Gyor
    Member

    its happened to me too, but I just brush it off as the mirror universe verison of the character.

    #170545

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Happened to me prior to 1.5 (just a few days before) – I reported it in the Bug forum (Which you should do, but in the 1.5 board if you are playing patch 1.5) and was assured that the duplicate leader bug should be fixed.

    #170547

    terrahero
    Member

    Never seen it happen, and i only play SP and almost always just Random the opponents. I do not have a lot of custom leaders, so maybe that’s where it goes haywire?
    Are the duplicate Leaders the one’s that are custom made?

    Surrender you don’t need to accept, so you can’t forcibly get your hero lineup screwed up. I forgot if surrendered leaders came with a reset of skillpoints though, would help to build mthem noncrappy if situation otherwise makes accepting surrender feasible.

    Leaders who surrender to you, and join your line up if you accept, get a full reset. So you can build them up as you please.

    #170581

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I’ve never seen a duplicate leader as a pure SP player, and I do very quick small maps most of the time, I start tons of them :S

    It’s a numbers game, so small maps will cause you to see it less – assuming small maps also mean fewer AIs. For instance, I used to play primarily with 5 AIs; now I always play with 7 AIs. And I have this happen a lot more with 7.

    Never seen it happen, and i only play SP and almost always just Random the opponents. I do not have a lot of custom leaders, so maybe that’s where it goes haywire?<br>

    No, it’s not a custom leader-exclusive thing.

    #170592

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Guys, go report it in the relevant bug forum (The standard one if you’re playing 1.4, the beta one if you’re playing 1.5) and provide Triumph with the saves.

    The more saves they get, the more chance they can nail down the problem.

    #170595

    I’ve got 30-plus custom leaders, and it still happens.

    I meant I customize all my opponents, pick specific ones depending on race/class.

    And I’ve played a total of one multiplayer game and that was pbem (though I do have a few more ongoing).

    I have 567hr on Steam and it just never happened to me, don’t know what to tell ya. 😛

    #170603

    Athei
    Member

    Happened to me a few times, there is nothing more infuriation than discovering your clone after 100+ turns in game…

    Ofcourse I play against unknown leaders, so I have no idea who I’m playing against, and when I see it’s myself, I just drop the game (like it’s hot).

    Are devs even aware of this bug, is there a topic about this at “Compiled Topic Index”?

    #170625

    Eliphas
    Member

    As i said it hasn’t happened to me, i don’t really care if it does, all it means to me is that it would be another challenge, can i beat myself

    #170630

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Happened to me a few times, there is nothing more infuriation than discovering your clone after 100+ turns in game…

    Ofcourse I play against unknown leaders, so I have no idea who I’m playing against, and when I see it’s myself, I just drop the game (like it’s hot).

    Are devs even aware of this bug, is there a topic about this at “Compiled Topic Index”?

    I reported it in 1.4 just a couple of weeks back, and they are aware of the issue. In fact, they thought it was fixed for 1.5, so if you are getting it under the 1.5 beta, go report it in the beta forum!

    #170632

    LoQueSeaLoco
    Member

    I had no idea this could happen. :P I guess this happens with random opponents? I tend to customize mine to avoid race/class repetitions.

    I’ve seen this happen often with the randomly generated roster of AI leaders for single player maps. In my case, however, I happen to avoid this problem by simply overriding the AI leaders with my own selection to avoid race/class repetitions like you JeanLuc. Still though, this must be incredibly infuriating for people who prefer to use the randomly generated roster, and to be honest I’ve always thought that the clones were silly to begin with anyways.

    #170633

    I’ve reported it in the beta patch bug forum with a savegame attached showing it for ye of little faith who doubt by honest word.

    Now I don’t mean to be melodramatic, but if Triumph Studios fail to correct everything I mentioned in my original post (especially the minotaurs), this is the only message they’ll ever need from then on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-8kmPJKGgM

    EDIT: You know in all seriousness, I’ve noticed a trend with what I regard as the weak points in the Age of Wonders series. They all have to do with immersion and making the player care about what’s going on.
    So being able to rename heroes on a technical level is a very minor thing. But you care MUCH more about characters if they’re named after real life friends than if they have some random fantasy name.
    Likewise, duplicate leaders are technically not a huge deal. But it shatters immersion to come up against even one opponent who is a clone of you, nevermind two or three. Same thing with leaders who are also heroes who exist in the same game.
    This is the same problem with getting enemy AI heroes when they surrender to you. You’ve been playing for ages by that point and you’ve nurtured your heroes from the ground up. Suddenly you’ve got this stranger being foisted on you that you have no emotional connection with or if you do it’s a bad one since you’ve been at war. So now you’ve got this hero that you’ve got nothing but disdain for, and even worse, he’s possibly preventing the return of a much loved hero due to how resurrection functions.

    I haven’t played a single multiplayer game of AoW 3. I’ve always been a single player guy and always will be. As I always say, the quickest way to ruin any game is to introduce other people. You arrange a match DAYS in advance and there’s always someone who’d like, “hold on, got to finish my dinner”.
    NO. YOU’VE HAD DAYS OF NOTICE. WE’RE NOT WAITING.

    Anyway, maybe those who say that the focus has been on multiplayer have a point. Maybe this is why these really obvious single player flaws haven’t been fixed after a year. Not sure.

    #170649

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Anyway, maybe those who say that the focus has been on multiplayer have a point.

    Amen, brother.

    #170674

    I don’t see how you can make such claims after the beta patch notes not to mention the game’s entire history but w/e. Every time it’s like “Oh you addressed those 999.999 things but you missed the 1 so you suck”.

    I play single player almost exclusively and would probably never touch mp if it wasn’t for pbem and I don’t give a shit about renaming heroes. It’s hard to accept, I know, but maybe the one little thing you choose to fixate on isn’t as important as you think. In the end there’s only so many hours in the day and a million things to keep track of and attend to.

    #170680

    Ravenholme
    Member

    I don’t see how you can make such claims after the beta patch notes not to mention the game’s entire history but w/e. Every time it’s like “Oh you addressed those 999.999 things but you missed the 1 so you suck”.

    I play single player almost exclusively and would probably never touch mp if it wasn’t for pbem and I don’t give a shit about renaming heroes. It’s hard to accept, I know, but maybe the one little thing you choose to fixate on isn’t as important as you think. In the end there’s only so many hours in the day and a million things to keep track of and attend to.

    Everything you just said, with bells on.

    Also a primarily SP player, and any MP I play tends to be co-op with friends. Renaming Heroes is really not an issue, at all, especially since now they tend to have a small, unique skill pick that reflects their name.

    What I would like is the ability to create them as I would custom leaders, but again, not going to cry about it.

    There are so many things to work on and Triumph are a SMALL team, so your tiny pet peeve is probably not their focus and is something we ALL have to deal with.

    #170686

    Kestilla
    Member

    I find it absurd you would get so worked up / vengeful over such a minor thing. The amount of offense you take to a game glitch, which in fact does not even break the game, isn’t astonishing, it’s ridiculous. First world problems, I suppose.

    This glitch happened to me once at the game’s launch but failed to induce in me the amount of rage you seem to be consumed with.

    You know in all seriousness, I’ve noticed a trend with what I regard as the weak points in the Age of Wonders series. They all have to do with immersion and making the player care about what’s going on.

    I find the series to be very immersive, from its soundtrack to its visuals to its lore. The key words in your statement are ‘I’ve’ and ‘I.’

    So being able to rename heroes on a technical level is a very minor thing. But you care MUCH more about characters if they’re named after real life friends than if they have some random fantasy name.

    Talk about breaking immersion. I’m not sure you know what it is.

    Likewise, duplicate leaders are technically not a huge deal. But it shatters immersion to come up against even one opponent who is a clone of you, nevermind two or three. Same thing with leaders who are also heroes who exist in the same game.

    I agree with this. If it’s such a huge issue, you’re going to have to manually choose your opponents. It’s a simple solution. If you can’t do it, the problem is once again your own. I agree that randomization is more mysterious, but if this is a deal breaker for you, then…

    I haven’t played a single multiplayer game of AoW 3. I’ve always been a single player guy and always will be. As I always say, the quickest way to ruin any game is to introduce other people. You arrange a match DAYS in advance and there’s always someone who’d like, “hold on, got to finish my dinner”.<br>
    NO. YOU’VE HAD DAYS OF NOTICE. WE’RE NOT WAITING.

    You need better friends, people who actually want to play the game instead of making excuses not to. It’s always a golden rule that the more people you try to involve, the greater the chance some of them will not be able make it 100% of the time. People can’t even be bothered to show up to work 100% of the time even though they’re scheduled, and this is no different.

    It sounds like you’d enjoy playing multiplayer, except you have no one to actually play it with and therefore take your frustrations out on multiplayer systems and the people who enjoy them. Well, I began playing AoW III singleplayer, and soon got my friend involved in multiplayer, and now there is no other way I would rather play it. You are again the one with a very specific personal issue no one can resolve or should have to take responsibility for but you.

    You also make allusions to other games while saying you’ve never played this game multiplayer before bashing this game’s multiplayer. It’s always good to substitute supposition, based partially on the hearsay and group mentality of others, for hard fact and personal experience.

    Anyway, maybe those who say that the focus has been on multiplayer have a point. Maybe this is why these really obvious single player flaws haven’t been fixed after a year. Not sure.

    Here we have the aforementioned supposition based on the hearsay of others.

    With the really obvious singleplayer flaws you stated above, which you also suppose do not occur in multiplayer, which is something you cannot personally attest to due to your lack of play time in multiplayer, it doesn’t seem like we have anything to worry about at all. If these issues are indeed limited solely to multiplayer, perhaps it has not occurred to you that you can create and launch a multiplayer game completely solo. Problems solved! You are free to enjoy the mass amounts of development time which have been poured onto the multiplayer side of things and decide for yourself if the experience is, in fact, better than the seemingly neglected singleplayer side.

    That said, your issues pertain to personal preference and choice, and not every game is going to appeal to everyone. If you play for 50 to 100+ turns of a game and instantly trash it because there’s another hero out there with your name, you are quite adept not only at wasting your own time, but frustrating yourself more than any game possibly can.

    #170692

    I’d have thought that sentences like, “I’ve reported it in the beta patch bug forum with a savegame attached showing it for ye of little faith who doubt by honest word.”, all caps, and the video I linked to would maybe have clued you in to the fact that I was being a little humourous in what I was saying. I guess you guys need emoticons to get that.
    But at the end of the day these are my genuine opinions. Do I really care if a video game isn’t as perfect as I think it could be? No, but… well… this is the game’s forum right? This is the place to express such opinions, right?

    As for multiplayer, what I meant is I don’t like playing with strangers online. I have hotseat games with friends of mine and even put them on YouTube. But even then I prefer single player because I go at my own pace. So psychoanalysing my perfectly innocent suggestion that those that say that the focus is mostly for the sake of multiplayer might have a point and taking from it that I have some deep personal grievance is… well, it is what it is.

    And I understand perfectly well what immersion is. You think that if you use a fantasy name it’s automatically more immersive because it’s a fantasy name. But you have no investment in a random fantasy name. You do in the name of someone you’ve had years of friendship with, even if such a name might not exist within the mythology of the game world. When a customised character is under threat you care more than if it’s *generic fantasy name #32342* and that aids with the immersion in the game. I don’t think that’s hard to understand. In fact I would imagine that it’s the main reason that developers bother letting players rename characters in other games.

    #170695

    LoQueSeaLoco
    Member

    I don’t see how you can make such claims after the beta patch notes not to mention the game’s entire history but w/e. Every time it’s like “Oh you addressed those 999.999 things but you missed the 1 so you suck”.

    I play single player almost exclusively and would probably never touch mp if it wasn’t for pbem and I don’t give a shit about renaming heroes. It’s hard to accept, I know, but maybe the one little thing you choose to fixate on isn’t as important as you think. In the end there’s only so many hours in the day and a million things to keep track of and attend to.

    There are so many things to work on and Triumph are a SMALL team, so your tiny pet peeve is probably not their focus and is something we ALL have to deal with.

    Even though some of my comments, posts and threads may make it appear otherwise; I actually couldn’t agree more on this.

    Now I don’t mean to be melodramatic, but if Triumph Studios fail to correct everything I mentioned in my original post (especially the minotaurs), this is the only message they’ll ever need from then on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-8kmPJKGgM

    EDIT: You know in all seriousness, I’ve noticed a trend with what I regard as the weak points in the Age of Wonders series. They all have to do with immersion and making the player care about what’s going on.

    Sometimes the little things that bother you about a game must simply take the backseat to the bigger picture that is being worked on. We are lucky enough to have the privilege to post our concerns on a forum for the development team to look through and consider on, and if these personal grievances get ignored for one reason or another, that should never translate into a game somehow being subpar. There are quite a few things that I actually would really want to see changed in the game, for which I even made a few dramatic threads about, but the fact that the development teams moves on with getting the vast majority of bugs and concerns out of the way is more than what any gaming community can ask for. Triumph Studios has made this title more community focused than most other games that I’ve seen, and we should be grateful for that.

    #170697

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I don’t see how you can make such claims after the beta patch notes not to mention the game’s entire history but w/e. Every time it’s like “Oh you addressed those 999.999 things but you missed the 1 so you suck”.

    I think you are over-dramatizing and misrepresenting the thrust of my point.

    Look, you are not just a beta tester; you are a prolific, involved beta tester with over 2,000 posts. Hence, I assume that it was never, ever raised as an issue in the beta test forum, if you’ve never even heard of this bug. Given how ubiquitous this particular bug is, I find it, once again, “stupefying” that it was never raised during the beta test. I think it is reasonable in this context to assume that the MP-thrust of that community made it susceptible to missing a bug like this.

    Once again, I didn’t say you guys “suck.” In fact, I personally like a majority of you and believe you do an excellent job in most respects. But I do think that representing or focusing issues that face the SP player community – especially the XL map community – is emphatically not one of these.

    That is all.

    #170699

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Ad hominem novel…

    Nice to post under an alias. Don’t have the courage of conviction, eh? Pathetic.

    #170704

    Sometimes the little things that bother you about a game must simply take the backseat to the bigger picture that is being worked on. We are lucky enough to have the privilege to post our concerns on a forum for the development team to look through and consider on, and if these personal grievances get ignored for one reason or another, that should never translate into a game somehow being subpar. There are quite a few things that I actually would really want to see changed in the game, for which I even made a few dramatic threads about, but the fact that the development teams moves on with getting the vast majority of bugs and concerns out of the way is more than what any gaming community can ask for. Triumph Studios has made this title more community focused than most other games that I’ve seen, and we should be grateful for that.

    Well I love Triumph Studios and I regard Age of Wonders 3 as my favourite game of all time. It’s precisely because I like the game so much that these flaws are so annoying to me. They’re so minor and so easily resolved. These things matter to me and if they don’t get resolved the game will always be a flawed gem in my mind. I realise that almost no-one else cares about them, but whose opinion am I meant to express here if not my own?
    Having said that I’m not thankful for being able to voice my opinion on a product that I’ve paid money for, nor do I feel the need to reiterate my love for the game every time I make a criticism of it. If post counts were visible you’d see that I’ve posted on this forum maybe ten to thirty times since the game was released. On the rare occasion that I come here I do it to ask a question or make a point and then move on.

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