Frostling Sorcerer specializations

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Frostling Sorcerer specializations

This topic contains 20 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Stoner 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #235283

    Stoner
    Member

    Which would be best in your opinion?

    I’m thinking on Water/Water/Explorer or Air/Air/Explorer but I’d really like to utilize evil affinity of my leader, but it seems there’s not much room for this. There’s probably no point in taking Destruction or Shadowborn specializations for Sorcerer because Destruction would benefit Goblin really well and Frostlings not so much. Shadowborn gives few mediocre upgrades along with good combat spells and powerfull summon, which I have plently as it is with Sorc by default. So it’s no go?

    Also it’s beyond me why Air has Arctic Empire instead of Water… Most ice/freeze related spells are in Water and this global would fit right in IMO. This single upgrade bends me towards 2x Air instead of Water, on the other hand Water has Freeze Water, Drench the Land and Healing Showers which is great for Frostlings since they don’t have much healing capabilities.

    Side question but still: is there a point to raze/destroy cities for Sorcerer? By logic I need to max cast points, and the only way aside from upgrades to get it is by keeping more cities. So having 5-6 upgraded and well developped cities won’t cut it like it does for Warlord, right?

    #235295

    Stormwind
    Member

    I think the good, playable options are probably a little wider than you are implying.

    As far as raze/destroy for sorceror…well of course everyone would like to keep cities if they are able. The main point of raze/destroy is for a focus on a particular type of strategy, namely hit and run burning of opponents towns. Some race/class combinations might be better at pulling this off than others. I dont see why frostling/sorceror shouldnt be able to carry this strategy out, though. Having destroy just lets you have the option of adopting this tactic if thats what the opponent/terrain are giving you in-game.

    #235340

    quo
    Member

    There’s a mod out there by a user named “Nolan Kotulan” that you can DL from Steam that provides a “Frost” specialization. I haven’t used it but it looks it’s what you’re looking for, all the “cold” skills in one spec.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=529328279&searchtext=frost

    #235362

    Stoner
    Member

    @stormwind
    Well, since I’m asking, it would be great to see some suggestions towards these wider options that I’m not aware of. Honestly, I’m more like novice in AoW3 yet and don’t understand quite a few mechanics so any combinations of specialozations or other related info would be most welcome.

    Considering raze/destroy, as I mentioned, cast points are must for any Sorc in all my playthroughts and I worry if carrying out this strategy wouldn’t hit me hard in late game. Also I try to roleplay a bit, so I’ll mostly try to keep absorbing/razing depending on my affinity, not totally based on effectiveness at the moment.

    @quo
    Thanks for the link, I might try this out.

    #235410

    llfoso
    Member

    To be honest, I don’t see much benefit of explorer. I know icescapers are good and all but I think as a sorcerer you’ll get pretty limited benefit from it. Same goes for water. If you’re not on an island map (or at least continents) or playing as goblins water isn’t all that amazing.

    All of the following are good for frostling sorc, in almost any combination (barring obvious contradictions) and in no particular order:
    Air
    Earth
    Wild
    Destruction
    Shadowborn
    Grey Guard
    Keeper of the Peace

    Creation and expander are also ok, but not great.

    Maybe do shadowborn (adept at least) since you like being evil. Life stealing and Gift of Nekron provide healing you wont have much of otherwise (Gift of Nekron seems like a double-edged sword, but the trick is to use it at the end of the battle when you’re mopping up, or in a super easy battle where you don’t expect losses).
    Destruction isn’t just for goblins. You won’t benefit from blight empire – oh well. You’re almost always going to have a specialization skill you won’t use, and it’s worth it for disintegrate and storm magic.
    Wild is pretty nice, and has the added benefit of being fun. Degenerate is really good with your multi-channel attacks.
    Earth – The adept skills aren’t great except for stone skin, but the mastery spells are pretty sick. You don’t have a tanky T3, earthquake is useful since all your summons float, slow can help your supports get away from that melee unit that parked next to them and is just a crippling debuff in general, and city quake is a great screw you spell.

    #235424

    Gloweye
    Member

    Maybe do shadowborn (adept at least) since you like being evil. Life stealing and Gift of Nekron provide healing you wont have much of otherwise (Gift of Nekron seems like a double-edged sword, but the trick is to use it at the end of the battle when you’re mopping up, or in a super easy battle where you don’t expect losses).

    Gift of Nekron heal only works for your own units, so don’t be afraid.

    Overall, I think Shadowborn is a very nice spec. Life Steal is always fun, on Node Serpents and Horrors just as much as on other stuff. Bonus points if you ever use Royal Guards to guard your witches and frost queens, as they also get it from racial governance, and it stacks. Shock damage you get for all dedicated to evil units isn’t bad either but not the main draw – after all, you got plenty of shock damage already.

    Later on, you get Rite of Malediction, which is insanely strong unit buff that can’t be easily dispelled. By then, just be sure to have your entire army dedicated to evil though.

    #235433

    Stoner
    Member

    Okay, that makes lot of sense. I was considering Destrucrion but only if I pick Master level for Disintegrate and Storm Magic as you mentioned, but getting Master for only those 2 skills wasn’t much worth it IMO, is it now? The rest doesn’t seem that appealing and wasting 2 slots…

    Now, looking at Shadowborn, it’s truly may be worth it on Adept, so now I’m torn… Would it be better to get Air/Air/Shadowborn insead of Water/Water/Explorer(Shadowborn)? I don’t consider Wild, Earth, Keeper and Grey Guard, the rest I do, still, would be good to hear out more synergies.

    #235451

    Gloweye
    Member

    I’d dump explorer anyway I think. You’re not really going to use the Irregular upgrades.

    I’d say, try both your combinations and see what works. Often the best way.

    #235453

    quo
    Member

    Would it be better to get Air/Air/Shadowborn insead of Water/Water/Explorer(Shadowborn)?

    Air/Air/Shadowborn would be really nice.

    Also even tho you like evil, since we’re talk about power don’t overlook Creation Master in terms for a Sorceror. Creation Master lacks a summon–a big drawback for most classes. But Sorcerors are already loaded with useful summons to spend your CP on. What Creation Master has is Resurrect to bring back your super expensive summons back to life. If you get to Age of Magic you can rezz at a CP cost of just 10 CP. The rest of Creation Master isn’t fantastic but by end game in single player a Sorceror with Rezz is one of the most powerful and annoying enemies to come up against.

    Bane of the Unnatural does kind of suck for Sorcerors though, since almost none of their units can benefit from it.

    #235458

    llfoso
    Member

    Gift of Nekron heal only works for your own units, so don’t be afraid.

    You mean this whole time I’ve been avoiding using it for no reason? Gah!

    #235460

    Stoner
    Member

    That was real usefull info on Creation, never actually looked at it as Sorcerer, surely gonna try it with Good Elf Sorc sometime.

    Now I just wanna clarify, why 2x Air would be better than 2x Water? The only real benefit I see is Arctic Empire. With Water I have Freeze Water (isn’t it considered as Arctic Terrain btw?) great cheap utility spell to block off enemy fleet or make bridge to conserve move points on umbarking, Rot – very good chain spell vs. machines, Healing Shower – never hurts to have additional healing and Drench the Land. It might sound stupid cause I never actually did it, but doesn’t it allow me to turn, say volcanic terrain into wetlands raising morale of my army or settlements?

    #235462

    quo
    Member

    Now I just wanna clarify, why 2x Air would be better than 2x Water? The only real benefit I see is Arctic Empire. With Water I have Freeze Water (isn’t it considered as Arctic Terrain btw?) great cheap utility spell to block off enemy fleet or make bridge to conserve move points on umbarking, Rot – very good chain spell vs. machines, Healing Shower – never hurts to have additional healing and Drench the Land. It might sound stupid cause I never actually did it, but doesn’t it allow me to turn, say volcanic terrain into wetlands raising morale of my army or settlements?

    IMO Air has two amazing spells:

    – Seeker, which is borderline OP for an Adept spell

    – Wind Ward, which causes everything in battle to suffer -8 ranged damage. But since you control when Wind Ward is active, you can use it like this:
    – Launch a volley of ranged attacks
    – Cast Wind Ward at the end of your turn to throw up a shield
    – Enemy shoots back with -8 penalty
    – At start of next turn, drop Wind Ward

    Also Wind Ward doesn’t lower your chance to stun stuff with ranged attacks I don’t believe.

    Air Mastery also gets Air Elementals, which IMO are one of the best elementals in the game, due to dealing Shock damage and having Inflict Stun.

    For Sorc the best thing about Water Mastery is Healing Showers IMO. Sorc doesn’t really need Ice Storm (since its one of the few classes to already get 2 AoE damage spells), Drench the Lands is pretty terrible for everyone except Goblins, and the Water Elemental is not very impressive to me, at least compared to what a Sorceror could summon anyway, whereas the Air Elemental is competitive.

    #235465

    For a sorcerer, it depends on what you want to do (actually true for anything in game, really). One exception is grey guard adept. You need cp, it gives you cp from killing many kinds of enemies, that is a wrap. Unless you want an alignment mastery, grey guard adpet is super useful. It also lets you get your alignment boost (double critical) simply with the enchant city scales spell, so you can easily bounce from city to city with fully upgraded summons.

    If you are in a stun support type mood, then several different ones work well based on your leader race. The thing about stun supports is that ranged combat is always in their favor, since few things are shock immune and threatening at range. It is melee combat where the difference is: an enemy good at phasing, flying, or otherwise charging into the flanks of your troops/avoiding many retaliations (which also stun) will win.

    This is most obvious with dwarf apprentices, who have armored and are tough dwarves. Throw a bless on them, and you can have them easily survive melee combat. Elves are also good, as total awareness prevents flanking, so a stone skin or bless strategically placed does wonders (also not only physical like your class sphere of protection).

    Keeper Mastery, with its +2 defense for dedicated to good units is also very useful.

    This is also useful for a different reason with frostling sorcerers: these spells (bless and stone skin) leverage your Frost Queen stun bombs in two ways. One is that they make stragglers less likely to kill them directly. The second way is that these spells preserve the life of any royal guards you have protecting them (since damage taken depends on the stats of the protected unit).

    Fire is also nice, as it gives you a non shock or physical nuke. Fire halo is also useful for frost protection on faster than white witch armies (for frostling sorc).

    Wild magic is quite useful as a mastery, as swap location and phase let you do fun things (degenerate and faerie fire works also).

    I would recommend against air adept: seeker is not useful for stun chance, wind ward is unnecessary on top of projectile resistance, high resistance, and staying at max range or through obstacles to get sutns, and air elementals just take up space that should be used for node serpents and horrors.

    On the other hand, air elementals are great anti sorc troops: they are immune to almost everything the sorc has and have physical protection, so they’ll be able to beat shock reliant troops.

    What you want are earth elementals: they have regrowth and are weak to shock (who brings shock to fight a sorc), but they are super tough fighters who can easily protect supports from interlopers.

    #235528

    Stoner
    Member

    Tbh I’m rather sceptical to those Air spells. I’ll try to explain why:
    If Seeker had mass variant, this spell would be simply amazing, but single target doesn’t do much for me, because I wouldn’t have any hardhitting ranged units in my army, and this spell wouldn’t be a gamechanger if I cast it on Apprentices for example. Since this is Adept spell it would be wiser to spend early CP on summons (like Phantasm) and attacking spells in combat IMO.

    Regarding Wind Ward, yes, this spell is great BUT it wouldn’t be so much of a help to Sorc. What is the most dangerous Ranged situations in game? Answer is – city assault. While you battering to the gates you get very heavy damage along with bonuses from rangers on the walls and Wind Ward would kill ability of enemy to hurt me while I’m breaking into the city. Why this isn’t an issue for Sorc? Because AI is broken. Every city assault with Sorc (considering we have enough CP) is pretty easy and goes by the same scheme: we form “turtle” away from the gates so ranged attacks can’t reach us, cast attacking spells (like Chain Lighning) and after few enemy squads are dead they will rush outta gates by themselves, so killing them in the field with halfdead army is very easy, especially if my units have things like Phase, Stunning and Static Sphere.

    About Elementals: it’s surely great to have decent summons and I agree that both Air and Earth Elementals are superiour to Frost, but those are intermediate units at best. I’ll probably go Phantasm>Serpent>Horror, and getting 2 slots of Specialization even partially based on summon when Arcane Horror will beat any of them by mile isn’t too productive IMO. Those Elementals may be considered by class who lacks decent summons at least for signinficant period, and that’s certainly not Sorc.

    I also shouldn’t carry too much about toughness of my frontline troops, because those will be summons which are cannon fodder mostly and easily replaced. Best pro of Sorc is that he can spam army wherever he is. He hasn’t an issue like Warlord, who spends time on unit production + transportation, thus losing units in battle is inadvisable and bad, regardless that his units are very tough and effecive. I still can keep my Supports safe and ranking those would be priority and that’s easier task since I can tank with summons not being afraid of losses.

    Fire and Keepers are very interesting ideas really, fire resistance would be most welcome for Frostlings, but at the same time it feels somewhat awkward… And Keepers are also seems fun, but that’s great idea if I choose to RP good affinity Hero.

    I don’t pretend that all my arguments may be right, just posting what I think and question that would be great, I have already found some most innovative combinations I certainly wouldn’t think of myself, so, throwing some more ideas would be most welcome.
    Let’s keep this discussion alive.

    #235530

    About Elementals: it’s surely great to have decent summons and I agree that both Air and Earth Elementals are superiour to Frost, but those are intermediate units at best. I’ll probably go Phantasm>Serpent>Horror, and getting 2 slots of Specialization even partially based on summon when Arcane Horror will beat any of them by mile isn’t too productive IMO. Those Elementals may be considered by class who lacks decent summons at least for signinficant period, and that’s certainly not Sorc.

    The advice was conditional (also, don’t underestimate frost elementals: defender is very useful when combined with any other defensive buff): If you are going to go mostly stun support and combat spells, then an earth elemental or two serves a very useful place in your army protecting stun supports (gryphon riders also work well).

    I also shouldn’t carry too much about toughness of my frontline troops, because those will be summons which are cannon fodder mostly and easily replaced. Best pro of Sorc is that he can spam army wherever he is. He hasn’t an issue like Warlord, who spends time on unit production + transportation, thus losing units in battle is inadvisable and bad, regardless that his units are very tough and effecive. I still can keep my Supports safe and ranking those would be priority and that’s easier task since I can tank with summons not being afraid of losses.

    no, that is more of a necro/ad thing. Necromancers can use the lost souls as battle people because of resurgence, and ad can put savage rage on any animal and make it useful.

    Sorcs need to nurse their summons up. Node serpents gain inflict stun and become super duper useful at level, and phantasm warriors need levels to get more resistance. beholders are obvious protect things, and horrors aren’t tough enough to just up and not have aides for (unless you mass them).

    #236231

    Stoner
    Member

    Since I already started this thread I guess I’ll ask here:
    Is there any point in using Apprentices instead of Witches when I get access to latter?
    What are best counters against Shadow Stalker (for Frostlings and in general)? Most annoying unit in the game…

    #236233

    freese2112
    Member

    Since I already started this thread I guess I’ll ask here:
    Is there any point in using Apprentices instead of Witches when I get access to latter?
    What are best counters against Shadow Stalker (for Frostlings and in general)? Most annoying unit in the game…

    The Apprentice/Witches play very different IMO. Apprentices with Heal Magic Being synergize well with the summoned Phantasm/Node Serpent/Horrors, while the White Witches synergize better with the other Frostling racials (especially Pledge of Protection w/ Royal Guard, & Fire protection from Grant Frozen Flame. I think you can make a case that paired RG/WW are amongst the most efficient combinations in the game from a cost & maintenance perspective.

    Shadow Stalkers are tough for just about everybody, but Sorcerers are in relatively good shape compared to most. With no shock resistence, I’d probably go with summons (PM, NS) /apprentices and if they are available to you supports w/ elemental attacks (Forge Priest, Storm Sister, and Draconian Elder especially nasty with Fire Strike). Due to the Stalkers resistence, some supports are pretty much useless against SS (Goblins, White Witches, Orc Priest, Brew Brothers), so don’t bother with those.

    #236235

    Gloweye
    Member

    Due to the Stalkers resistence, some supports are pretty much useless against SS (Goblins, White Witches, Orc Priest, Brew Brothers), so don’t bother with those.

    Goblins still has weakening, so it’s not really bad, but still pretty weak.

    Anyway, apprentices have the advantage over witches of having Mend Magical Being, and having triple channel damage – which is going to be more against non-resistant stunned targets. WW’s have the advantage of Grant Frozen Flames(very good on Node Serpents as well as royal guards – having both Phase and Sprint, Serpents can do the flanks to make the two damage channels count.), and that of swimming (all your summons have floating, and witches can cross rivers with them right away instead of having to go gold first).

    #236238

    Stoner
    Member

    Asking about Stalkers because I’m in mission 1 of Necro campaign and since most of my units deal frost/physical it’s rather hard to counter huge packs of these units. =/

    Regarding Apprentice/WW on Sorc: if main army composition would be 2 Royal Guards, 2 White Witches and 1 Ice Queen, that’s probably most effective? But before I get that I’d probably use Apprentices but I don’t really see point in them since additional armies will consist mostly of Summons and I think if Apprentices survive I’ll add 2 or 3 in Summons group for early support, later that wouldn’t be too usefull IMO becuase they’ll slow down Summons (if not gold).

    Not every race has units like WW which has VERY usefull buff (racial mostly), much more usefull than Mending which I use very rarely and they deal dual channel damage, not much less effective than triple of Apprentices’. Plus since they are supports that’ll grant them stuns and etc from upgrades… Well, I guess I need some testing to do.

    #236244

    Gloweye
    Member

    Against stalkers in Campaign 1, I’d advise Yeti’s, Bone Collectors and Banshees. use the first two to eat the stalker hits and drain retaliations, use the banshees after that to flank.

    And cast Damnation. It affects stalkers, taking down their blight immunity to 40% only, and hits their morale and defensive stats.

    Royal Guards can work as well, but are better against your average living units, due to getting double life steal and tireless combo.

    #236271

    Stoner
    Member

    Yeah, Damnation truly worked miracles, I also spammed them with Ice Queens and Mammoth Riders, worked quite well. Anyway I’m on Frostlings Mission 3 now.

    Just wanted to share: Necromancer is TON OF FUN!

    In first mission I got into very tricky situation: when my armies were marching on the capital of last enemy alive (Zoki) who still had some considarble forces, March of the Troll King started. I had Dread Reaper ready in que on cast and spare ~150 CP. About 10 packs of Trolls appeared before one of my undefended cities (it was really in safe spot and no point in garrison). Situation was pretty bad since if Trolls take that city, it would be a chain reaction and more of my cities would be lost. Drawing armies was no option, if I’d give more time and breather to Zoki, I’d be crushed.

    So, I cast Dread Reaper in the city which was under Troll attack, auto combat said there’s no chance to win (apparently). City itself had basically only stone wall and nothing else for protection. At the beggining of the fight I started to move Reaper deeper into the city and casted Scourge of Undead and Dark Gift, no more CP left. Well, that was most amusing show I’ve seen in a long time. Those Trolls had regrowth, but that didn’t help them, undead spawning all around with all the slaughter was just hilarious. After battle I had my Dread Reaper intact and city safe.

    Necro is great, has some really awesome and powerfull features, but at the same time he thirsts for CP too much and lack of regen early on kinda strappes him out. CP costs and demand grow as you play, but not much options to cover it really…

    P.S. Derailed my own thread… sorry I can’t edit the title.
    xD

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