Game is to difficuilt and annoying

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Game is to difficuilt and annoying

This topic contains 21 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Unknown250 7 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #143581

    Mediin
    Member

    I’m trying for the 5th time to get trough the first scenario of the golden realms campaign and i’m still not able to make progress. This is majorily trough the following problems:

    AI always knows the strength of your army no matter wath. Basically, it’s able to see the whole map.
    Since all units are able to pass mountains and water, this worsens the problem since no clear frontier can be made. Enemy always attacks out of the fog, leaving you with the only option to build a ridicolous huge army to defend from practically everywhere. Any strategic approaches are failing miserably. Units are useless. Usually, the first ones who get T4 units wins.
    If i set an army to “Done”, it doesn’t switch me automatically to the next. Huge annoyance.
    Enemys always outnumber you.

    But what really takes the cake is that game isn’t decided with the win or the loose of a major battle. Something that i was used to in AoW 1 & 2. I can defend armys that outnumber me 3 to 1 and still, there is more to come. Probably because the AI cheats to make up for bad AI scripting, but is overshooting it way to much.
    It’s when i barely manage to reclaim my citys from the enemy when i realize, the game was over 20 turns (or 1 hour) ago, leaving a lot of my time wasted and me pissed off.

    With the upcoming Necromancer DLC, i wanted to give this game another chance, but it just sucks so much. I wasn’t even able to finish the original campaigns but this isn’t even trying anymore. If i want to play turn-based-strategy games i’m going back to Civilization again.

    #143582

    Bob5
    Member

    Just out of curiosity, what difficulty setting are you playing at? The AI got improved quite a lot since the game was launched, and the Golden Realms campaign is difficult compared to the other campaigns, I’m still stuck on the third Golden Realms mission on Hard, while the Commonwealth and Elven Court campaigns were both very doable to me on the hardest difficulty. If you put the difficulty on Easy the AI shouldn’t have any bonuses, I think they play on Square or Knight then, the only bonus they have in that case is that they start with a larger empire.

    One hint I have for the first GR scenario is to get Mounted Archers from your throne city. Expand and grow that city quickly so that it covers both the Vault of Knowledge and the Spring of Life, and then get both the Focus Chamber and the Stables of Vigor prior to spamming Halfling Mounted Archers, with those upgrades they’re really strong. Vigorous Mounts gives them Free Movement, so faster on the strategic map, as well as High Morale for more lucky, and Fast Healing is always useful as well, while the Focus Chamber simply gives more damage. Mounted Archers also benefit from Thoroughbred Mounts and Martial Arts Training, and with all those together they become really powerful.

    #143587

    UltraDD
    Member

    Don’t wait until you get mounted archers. I won this map just by spamming monster hunters! They are strong against naga and you won’t have a lot of problem because they are good at clearing too.

    The first map isn’t that hard unless you get sea faring very late. Get monster hunters then it and you can begin attacking the enemy cities.

    Btw usually their first attack on your main city is naga. It is a warning to not delay too much because the AI has a lot more cities than you.

    As for major battles.. Lol the AI spammed a LOT more units in aow2 and SM.

    #143623

    Nyanko
    Member

    The first scenario is quite easy if you go for the halfling enemy first. The progression on the map at the beginning is misleading cause it makes you go down south west to conquer the dwelling and the draconian city at the bottom left corner of the map.

    But once you have achieved these and the girl comes with her party robots, you should head straight to the north east with a major force and the halfling cities won’t resist much. Then you have all the leasure to wipe the draconian out afterwards.

    It took me a few restarts to understand this. So I sent the sister south to conquer cities and I waited around my starter city with main hero for the girl with robots to pop and then it became piece of cake to get the halfling on his knees. So don’t give up. It’s all about learning from your mistakes and get better a little more each time.

    #143627

    Ericridge
    Member

    Its surprising because I managed to cream the first mission of the golden realms by copying how daring the hobbits was in lord of the rings >.> I made bunch of crazy attacks. Armies of slingers for garrison duties and winnning battles with them.

    Basically put, I went hog wild with irregulars and swarmed the enemy to death somehow >.> I probably was just too lucky. XD

    I barely can remember what I did at all. Alot of racial troops was used and barely any class units. I do remember starting research on horse archers or phalanxes by the time I won the map.

    Just fight dirty. It probably will help u more to play on Vanilla AOW3 campaign first. You need experience. AOW3 campaigns is pretty tough although I keep on winning a bunch of missions on first try even when it takes me 10+ hours to do it.

    #143628

    Socratatus
    Member

    I say dive into a random game first, thenn when you’ve got good at that and understand stuff, go for the Campaign. I find random games give you time to understand everything and become used to it.

    #143640

    Unknown250
    Member

    Remember that this is a campaign, which means that on every map the AI is going to start off with a significant economic advantage. In other words, you have to blitz. The AI will have more money, more production, and more research than you, and if you let them get away with that for too long, than it ends up like you say – endless waves of troops. To block that, you have to hit them fast and hard.

    Personally, I never built a single T4 unit in the campaigns except from dwellings. If you haven’t won by that point, you’ve already lost. The AI will have T4 units kicking around, but fortunately in AoW 3 T4 units aren’t nearly as powerful as they were in SM or AoW 1, so they shouldn’t pose too much of a threat.

    You mentioned you play Civ – think of it like that. You know how in every Civ game, 90% of the outcome of the game is determined within the first 10% of turns? Take that mentality into AoW 3’s campaign. How fast and how hard you can hit in the first 10-20 turns will basically determine whether the map will be a cakewalk, a challenge, or unwinnable.

    If you’d prefer a more laid-back game where you’re free to develop your empire at your leisure, play a scenario. Those are much more forgiving (as everyone starts on equal footing) and allow you to pursue your own playstyle.

    Finally, the AI in this game really doesn’t seem to be too bad for cheating. AFAIK it doesn’t cheat as much as in past AoWs – at the very least, it certainly doesn’t seem to cheat more – and it’s absolutely nothing compared to the Civ franchise (though has there ever been a franchise where the AI cheats more than in Civ?).

    Plus I’m pretty sure the AI cheating is minimal to non-existent on CPU Lord or lower, so you can always just lower the difficulty.

    #143641

    v8man
    Member

    I say dive into a random game first, thenn when you’ve got good at that and understand stuff, go for the Campaign. I find random games give you time to understand everything and become used to it.

    I agree completely. Unlike other games, the AoW3 campaign is really not a glorified tutorial designed to slowly and gently introduce players to the game. Quite the opposite. I actually found that the Elven campaign got hard pretty quickly on normal difficulty. I had to even bump it down to “easy,” which unfortunately make the game a bit too easy. By about the sixth mission, I completely lost interest due to the monotony of the campaign and its unimaginative storyline.

    However, once I got into the random maps, I haven’t looked back since. This is a game that shines in random-map mode. Unlike AoW:SM (which I loved), you can customize random-map gameplay much more, and the character creation mechanics, while limited, are still great. So, yeah, I would suggest stepping away from the campaign for now and doing some random maps.

    #143680

    Athei
    Member

    Why that hate? If you played AoW 1 and 2 this shouldn’t be so difficult for you…
    And you are clearly overreacting I managed to finish Golden Realms in just a day or two, and it was relatively easy for me…

    I like to play defensive too, but for the campaigns you have to rush or you will find yourself outnumbered fast. If you don’t want to change your strategies than stick to random battles.

    #143709

    Low_K
    Member

    It’s mentioned before; A game which forces you to rush through a scenario, without the possibility to Turtle, is not balanced. Furthermore the combo of Tier IV units with Tier IV über Spells is overpowered.

    We need Mod tools, but that is already on the Devs’ to-do-list (prolly after the expansion(s)). I have been quiet about this for a while, but it never hurts to mention it again, once in a while 😉

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #143804

    Gloweye
    Member

    I could do it easily without rushing…basically, keep your starting army of 2 stacks together, march for the Fae dwelling to the south, and then east. Build around 3 Pioneers, 1 for the Sunken City near the Fae dwelling(a single stack of Sirens will let you rule the seas uncontested, which is good since almost all landmasses start out as islands, and stay that way if you don’t build bridges), 1 for the Crystal Tree/Ancient ruins to the east(Good Phalanx if the game gets to the dragging along stage), and you can fit a city under there, near the Flowrock Quarry/Mercenary Camp. Around the 25 turn mark(when you get the Clarissa), you should have that area under your control.

    Your halfling enemy, to the north, is pretty easy – he got a single Shrine of Smiting at the start, but he sometimes has a tendency to park it over the ocean, making an easy pick for your sirens/embarked horse archers.

    Rush to Horse Archers ASAP for your main city. Get an eagle’s nest if you feel rich, but you really should build Shooting range, stables of vigor, focus chamber and masters’guild asap, and you can 1-turn a very strong units. Create stacks of 6 of these to feel OP easy. Give them Camilla as a party leader if you want them to kick ass harder – Poison Mastery gives them an additional damage type.

    In my 2 times I played it, I never had any trouble from Malzua – though I can imagine that might vary.

    #143862

    It’s mentioned before; A game which forces you to rush through a scenario, without the possibility to Turtle, is not balanced. Furthermore the combo of Tier IV units with Tier IV über Spells is overpowered.

    you can turtle, it is just much harder. I mean, if you have a built in enemy with a resource advantage and don’t bother them, what exactly should happen if you give them that advantage?

    I can’t really think of any strategic combat oriented game where turtling with a little state lets you beat much larger, unbothered states.

    I mean, yeah, Sauron would have won through turtling, but that is because he already had the resource advantage to begin with. The free peoples had to strike rapidly, and in great danger, to even make it close.

    Your statement is also a prime example of a false dilemma: see http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#FalseDilemma.

    It breaks down to “Well, you can turtle or rush, and since you can’t turtle, then you have to rush. This means the game is unbalanced”.

    There is, of course, a third option: cautious expansion, festina lente, or whatever you want to call it.

    Indeed, given the absorption mechanics, this is usually a much better strategy than either rushing or turtling. Rushing leaves you defending a lot of territory without getting any resources, and turtling lets your enemy churn up a very large opposing army in perfect harmony.

    The champion system should also let you have very powerful t-1 and t-2 units that can fight toe to toe with t-4’s once they come out.

    #143890

    Nyanko
    Member

    I do agree rushing is not so nice cause for instance, in the second scenario, I got the quest for conquering the 3 nodes giving city upgrades completed only at the end cause I didn’t want to waste a good stack at the beginning and preferred to use all my forces to wipe out the north first (sorry for spoilers if any).

    It gives a sense of forced sacrifice that I didn’t enjoy so much. Like everyone here, I think campaign mode is definitely not where AOW3 shines.

    #143892

    Ericridge
    Member

    I do agree rushing is not so nice cause for instance, in the second scenario, I got the quest for conquering the 3 nodes giving city upgrades completed only at the end cause I didn’t want to waste a good stack at the beginning and preferred to use all my forces to wipe out the north first (sorry for spoilers if any).

    It gives a sense of forced sacrifice that I didn’t enjoy so much. Like everyone here, I think campaign mode is definitely not where AOW3 shines.

    You can conquer those nodes including the ruined wizard tower without losing a single unit. They have far below than average strength in them if you check them first before attacking. If i remember right, the ruined wizard tower only got one Horror and uhh the giant blueish serpent that stuns and have fear.

    #143898

    Nyanko
    Member

    You can conquer those nodes including the ruined wizard tower without losing a single unit. They have far below than average strength in them if you check them first before attacking. If i remember right, the ruined wizard tower only got one Horror and uhh the giant blueish serpent that stuns and have fear.

    Well, I don’t manage to conquer all three without using a single unit if it’s with the starter stack. Maybe some good players do, but I don’t. So I prefer to rush directly to the east and get the north right away summoning on the way to build up my conquering army. Cause once the bad hobbit get his big stacks of nagas comes up to meet me, if I haven’t rushed like that since the very beginning, I can’t manage much finishing the map. I am not yet skilled enough to do so.

    #143903

    Unknown250
    Member

    A game which forces you to rush through a scenario, without the possibility to Turtle, is not balanced.

    But that’s literally every strategy campaign, RTS or TBS, ever – at least, any that aren’t ridiculous easy. From War/Starcraft to HOMM to GalCiv to Age of Empires – this always has been and likely always will be the optimal strategy.

    It’s the nature of the beast. Almost every campaign map in almost every game is going to feature the human player with a handful of units facing off against one or multiple already-developed enemies. When your enemy already has that sort of economic edge, the best way to win is to undermine it as soon as possible.

    Frankly, I would argue the opposite from you: Any strategy game where turtling against an enemy who has a significant economic advantage is a viable strategy is fundamentally broken. There has to either be something very wrong with the game or very wrong with the AI for that to work. Turtling is what you do when you have an economic advantage but a military disadvantage. If you’re at an economic disadvantage then turtling just doesn’t make any sense, and complaining that turtling isn’t a viable strategy in those situations is like complaining that using your archers primarily as melee units isn’t a viable strategy.

    In scenarios? Sure, of course. But, like I said before, everyone’s starting off on equal footing there. In campaigns, that’s not the case.

    Ultimately, you can’t fight an uphill battle with the same strategies you’d use in an even match and expect to win. And any campaign in any strategy game ever is going to be, fundamentally, an increasing series of uphill battles.

    I’m really not sure why AoW 3 is getting so much flak for this, because again, as I’ve said before, this is completely par for the course. If you think it’s a bad system, then fine, but to be honest, I can’t really see any alternatives. The only way to have a campaign where every possible strategy is viable is to have a campaign which plays out exactly like a random scenario – and then what’s the point?

    #143904

    Nyanko
    Member

    The problem with campaigns in AOW3 is not the fact they have to be rushed and turtle is not viable, but more about their straightforwardness. As a campaign, you would expect some turn of events or twists which would make the story much more interesting.

    For instance, instead of showing from the very beginning who’s the main enemy and the fact he’s gonna come for you soon or later, why not having like A, B, C factions, each with their own strength, and to some point, if you conquer A, B and C will come right away at you, but if you defeat B first, maybe C will join you to finish the game in coop, those sort of things. Or some cities have been destroyed by mercenaries and one of the A, B, C factions is responsible for it but you don’t know which. And by exploring you discover who’s behind this and maybe by defeating faction A you made a big mistake cause they were not responsible. Why the bad guy has always to be at war with you? Why not him being neutral at first, some sort of palpatine approach in which he will look fine but in fact he’s the bad guy and will come suddenly at you after turn X?

    To my point of view, with a bit of scripting, there is more to make out of a campaign than just ‘the bad guy is this one and his territory is somewhere around there and you have to defeat him’. That’s why somehow random maps are better, cause anything can happen.

    It would be so nice if in the campaign, you lose the game cause you killed the wrong guy.

    #143929

    Mediin
    Member

    I am not turtling. I slowly expand. Like the game wants me to do since all the ressources can’t be conquered like in the previous games, but have to be in your borders. If i have to rush, whats the sense of 90% of the neutral ressources that are not in anyones starting territory? This is absolutely counterintuitive.

    I also refuse to use knowledge of the map from others or do trial-and-error. To rush, you have to know where the capitals of your enemys are. To do this, you search the map. If you found it, you restart the scenario to make a precise attack. It’s your only option. If you waste to much time finding the enemy, simply because you search south and not north across the sea, to much time could have been passed already and the enemy has an undefeatable army.

    Since the odds are against you in the campaign, the game has to find a way to teach you how to win. Your usual approaches don’t work, and have to restart the same scenario multiple times to use the knowledge you gained from previous trys is just bad design and a waste of time in my eyes. It’s on par with using the clear up map cheat. In my first try i lost New-Aldor due to the Naga-Attack. This is what i mean when i say you either have to use previous knowledge, or just arm up everything to the teeth since you can’t know where the next attack strikes, and waste alot of money with it, which is also partially because enemys can pass mountains and sea at will now. Unpassable areas would be a good indicator where to go.

    I just can’t warmth myself for this game anymore. It caused more stress then fun already and there is no turning back for a game when it passed that point.

    #143930

    UltraDD
    Member

    Campaign maps aren’t all “find the bad guy to win”. This is especially true in the last sundren map and alot of commonwealth maps. Infact there is alot of twists in the common wealth one and sometimes hidden trap triggers to make the game even more challenging :P.

    I tried the campaign first time on normal -After they added resurgance anyway- and didn’t really need to restart most maps at all. Even the ones where all your allies suddenly become enemies\heroes desert you etc.

    I think people are spoiled by RTS\TBS games with VERY easy campaigns on the hardest difficulty. Am looking at you blizzard and warcraft! I liked when the specific nage attacks happened -Only surprised by the first one on GR campaign, I still had my city spammed with advanturers and they wrecked the nage hard :P.

    #143944

    Draxynnic
    Member

    For instance, instead of showing from the very beginning who’s the main enemy and the fact he’s gonna come for you soon or later, why not having like A, B, C factions, each with their own strength, and to some point, if you conquer A, B and C will come right away at you, but if you defeat B first, maybe C will join you to finish the game in coop, those sort of things.

    There’s something like this in one of the campaign maps.

    Why the bad guy has always to be at war with you? Why not him being neutral at first, some sort of palpatine approach in which he will look fine but in fact he’s the bad guy and will come suddenly at you after turn X?

    There’s something like this in some campaign maps also.

    Or some cities have been destroyed by mercenaries and one of the A, B, C factions is responsible for it but you don’t know which. And by exploring you discover who’s behind this and maybe by defeating faction A you made a big mistake cause they were not responsible.

    *thinks*

    There’s something like this as well. In fact, it’s a campaign fork.

    #143948

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Campaign maps aren’t all “find the bad guy to win”. This is especially true in the last sundren map and alot of commonwealth maps. Infact there is alot of twists in the common wealth one and sometimes hidden trap triggers to make the game even more challenging :P .

    I tried the campaign first time on normal -After they added resurgance anyway- and didn’t really need to restart most maps at all. Even the ones where all your allies suddenly become enemies\heroes desert you etc.

    I think people are spoiled by RTS\TBS games with VERY easy campaigns on the hardest difficulty. Am looking at you blizzard and warcraft! I liked when the specific nage attacks happened -Only surprised by the first one on GR campaign, I still had my city spammed with advanturers and they wrecked the nage hard :P .

    I had Clarissa garrisoning my throne city when that Naga attack came. The results were amusing, to the tune of a very small stack taking out two/three stacks of Nagas.

    And Drax is correct, all of those actually happen in the campaigns at various points.

    #144113

    Unknown250
    Member

    I also refuse to use knowledge of the map from others or do trial-and-error. To rush, you have to know where the capitals of your enemys are. To do this, you search the map. If you found it, you restart the scenario to make a precise attack. It’s your only option.

    Yeah, no. I never did that once. You don’t need any prerequisite knowledge of the map, and you don’t have to rush their capital, either. You don’t need to knock out the enemy in the first few turns, you just need to hit them hard enough that their economic advantage is mitigated and you’re generating enough gold, mana, production, and research to keep up. Simple and efficient scouting should tell you everything you need to know.

    Hell, once you’ve accomplished this, you’re free to sit back and spend the next hundred turns researching and building literally everything – just so long as you do enough initial damage to put you and the AI on at least an even footing.

    One thing I will agree is that I did find the story a little disappointing. It felt more like a prelude to AoW 4 than a self-contained plotline.

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