Game Suggestion to Stop Experience Farming

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This topic contains 200 replies, has 34 voices, and was last updated by  Jolly Joker 6 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 21 posts - 181 through 201 (of 201 total)
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  • #242849

    Hiliadan
    Member

    ust change hero touch (and leader touch) to 2 and they will get 4 XP per usage of touch ability instead of 6 XP as now.
    Then we need a way to cap the XP gained by heroes and leader every strategic turn. (XP counter for heroes) Did you check what Zaskow said (that it crashes the game if you try to put an XP counter for T5 and T6, i.e. heroes and leaders)? Any way to bypass this limitation?

    As it seems there is no way to bypass that limitation and it’s not possible to have XP counters for heroes and leaders, I suggest actually putting Hero touch at 0, so not XP for using Healing, Web, Touch of Faith, etc.
    I’m a bit sick of XP farming (play against gab and you’ll understand :P).

    Would that be a drama for live MP?
    Zaskow, would you agree to implement it in your main mod?
    And XP counters @ 7/8/10/12 or maybe 6/8/10/12?

    #242851

    Zaskow
    Member

    Would that be a drama for live MP?
    Zaskow, would you agree to implement it in your main mod?
    And XP counters @ 7/8/10/12 or maybe 6/8/10/12?

    Difficult to say. A few passes needed to see how fast heroes achieve levels with mod and without on auto.

    #242860

    not XP for using Healing, Web, Touch of Faith, etc.

    In the context of this debate, that makes perfect sense. However, it’s worth pointing out that experience for non combat healing was a requested and welcome feature.

    Would this affect heroes only?

    #242870

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Yes, heroes only because normal units have XP counters and fewer abilities (usually only 1) so it’s harder to abuse the abilities to gain excessive XP with them.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    #242890

    bf_markymark
    Member

    i see that xp winning can be limited too.
    So after repeating, you got no experience more.
    Maybe it is possible to make a Limit, for example not more than a lvl per turn.

    I’m thinking to Play less pbem games
    because i see no Change against certain Players,
    it is no fun more.

    A game must have a Tension too and when i can not beat some Players more, it is no Tension, why i shall Play with him? When we do nothing with xp farming -> the pbem community is going to be frustrated and some Players will not more play.
    I have thinking about a pbem without no t3/t4, and just few earnings structures….
    maybe i will not Play a pbem game more with normal Settings….

    #242894

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Maybe it is possible to make a Limit, for example not more than a lvl per turn.

    I think it’s not possible.
    But if we implement the fixes discussed before (XP counter, no XP from touch actions for heroes and leaders), XP farming will all but disappear.

    #242896

    bf_markymark
    Member

    it is not only the xp farming, the converting is a Problem too. Some pbem games are decided which Units you can convert or not. and this is often just luck, and then another Problem, when you do reload of game, maybe you have another result (not converting, kill aow3.exe, converting, use it). Hope no one will do such Things.
    Maybe converting Units shall not be random, so you get every time same result. (but i think it is not possible)

    I have a proposal: all t3/t4 Units get willpower /against ghul too and t2 Units are weaker in hp and get more resistance/defense values for balancing.

    Another proposal is to bind some Units on structures in map, for example you can only build a Dragon when you Control a vulcan. Maybe only for t4 Units. So map Control is important.

    #242901

    gabthegab
    Member

    This is very good idea , convert charm seduce ghoul curse control undead work only on T1 and T2, greater reanimate only on friend units. No other change need for balance.
    For reduce XP farming we can try to limit to 50 or 49 XP by fight for one unit.

    #242903

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    No, that’s a very bad idea. Luck plays always a role.

    For example, Succubus would become a pretty useless unit – look at their current price. Without this kind of conversion Rogue would suck on any bigger map because they miss heavy weight.

    You have to concentrate on the HEROES because they are the wild cards. After the Heroes level up “normally” you can rebalance Hero conversion abilities, and then things will look differently.

    #242904

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Agree with JJ. And solutions have been proposed there: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/suggestion-conversion-limit/page/2/
    The only issue now is their implementation. cbower started work on it but I think he is quite busy right now so we have no news.

    #242908

    gabthegab
    Member

    We don’t have perfect solution, we propose very good and simple solution and just 30 minutes after we have no no no no this is very bad nia nia nia. Have fun my friend :). (rogue have other strong unit then succube like evangeliste for théocrate…)
    For me all of this is just for fun and make the game a little more open, the only real problem for pbem game stay necro!
    You want stop experience farming this is simple limit the win of xp by fight, you want limit the power of convert this is very simple limit convert on T1 and T2.
    You want something very complex lol do it, try to use the equation of Erwin Schrödinger :p in the game!

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  gabthegab.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  gabthegab.
    #242926

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    There is no need to get sarcastic. The discussion is ongoing pretty long, and it’s concentrating on Heroes because it’s the heroes who disturb the balance.

    Whether, say, Evangelist’s Convert would be better with an attack of 10 than 11 is one thing, but that’s a completely different question from how fast heroes level up and what abilities they can field (and what not).

    Basically, the problem will be very much mitigated by
    Reducing XP contacts to 6/8/10/10 and to reduce hero touch contact XP to 1. I have already made a slight alteration of hero XP ladder that won’t make it notably more different to reach level 7, but will make level 15 and up more demanding. Then conversion abilities have to be assessed and given heroes on somewhat later levels.

    Necro is a special case that needs more rework.

    What I would really like is some inofficial patch 1.8 based on all this that we could playtest. The devs should have an opinion as well here.

    #242936

    gabthegab
    Member

    Sory for sarcasm :). I hope you find the better update for the game, and i will test your patch 1.8 with great pleasure !

    #242937

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Look, gab, either you or hilli reached L15 in turn 10. That is the only problem there is, really, if you consider that you can play with L15 MAX – you don’t want to reach LMAX for hero in turn 10, that makes no sense.
    So basically all hero abilities are available after 10 turns and OF COURSE, all conversion heroes are out of all bounds at that point.

    That is absolutely against the purpose of the game – it makes things useless.

    I for one am not prepared to play such a silly game, because it destroys the fun.

    We must find a way to get that controlled. everything else is irrelevant.

    #242938

    gabthegab
    Member

    This is why i say limit to 49 or less xp by fight by unit. i must go see you 🙂

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  gabthegab.
    #242946

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    But that’s no fun either. You’ll still pull out the maximum XP out of everything.

    I’ve made a mod I’d like you guys to test for XP farming properties.

    Contact me on steam, I’m jollyjoker19, I can send the mod via mail or something.

    If XP farming is under control we can go ahead and give convert abilities the right level and cost.

    #242964

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I repeat the question:

    I have a mod ready that I would like to be tested by those who really excel in XP farming. No one interested?

    #242969

    Hiliadan
    Member

    This is why i say limit to 49 or less xp by fight by unit. i must go see you :)

    1/ that’s not possible with mod tools (modders, contradict me if I’m wrong)
    2/ it doesn’t solve XP farming

    The solutions have already been found. I don’t see how what you propose is superior.
    Solutions =
    – XP counter at 6/8/10/12
    – XP counter for heroes (need dev) OR XP from touch ability = 0 for heroes and leaders

    @jj: you expected people to react in 4 hours? 😛 I’m interested, post it on Steam or Nexus or something, it would be more practical. What are the mod’s changes?

    #242971

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I didn’t buy the game on Steam, so the best way would be for someone else to post it there.

    I could of course list changes, but I would like people to just play they normal XP farming game and see how far they get and how it plays in comparison.

    There are not so many people who qualify, for example Gab, Lightform, probably yourself. You’ve seen that L15 can be reached at turn 10. There is of course a snowball effect, the faster the hero gets better, the more you control stronger sites and the more XP you can farm.

    So it would be interesting how far gab comes with the mod at turn 10.

    If that doesn’t work, there are still a few screws to turn.

    #243052

    Hiliadan
    Member

    EDIT: so here is you changelog? http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/experience-farming-revisited-and-a-mod/

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    #243055

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Right.
    I mean, it’s clear that the mod will massively decrease farming, but the real question is, how big the difference to normal/casual play will be.

    It is clear that you CAN steer XP gain to heroes or units, and what the mod tries is making it more profitable than before to give contact XP to units instead of the hero, while the relevance of kill experience is unchanged.

    You might say, if you play “casually”, your reward will be that units gain levels a tad faster than before, while heroes should still develop with taking kills and casting spells (!; this will also slightly rebalance strategic versus combat spellcasting).

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