Gamescom 2013 Dreadnought trailer released

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Gamescom 2013 Dreadnought trailer released

This topic contains 130 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  Brother JO 8 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #9522

    Seems pretty good,but one thing that i m concerned is; there are very powerful spells which can change course of the battle very easily. That explosion spell from dreadnought,summoning skill from archdruid and theocrat spells from the 1st gameplay video. It feels like spells are more important than units. I hope it ll be balanced on release.

    I don’t think the spells are any more unbalanced than “sacred wrath” or “hell fire” were in aow II and SM. If anything, it was less so, since it returned to the aow i super spell hits everything, so that you have to chose if you want to risk losing your units, and the spell can be disjunctued by an opponent. With the summoning spell, it didn’t seem that super powerful, since they were little units.

    Overall, the outcome matched what you would expect a human player fighting the computer in a rather difficult battle without any spell casting: a costly victory for the organic player.

    I’d also like to know more, as an earlier poster said, about the “dodge projectile” ability that the Titan had (probably due to undead skinniness, inform Hollywood of a new diet strategy). Is this something shared by all undead, or any fast and writhing creature?

    I’ll end by noting that the video was four kinds of awesome out of five (suspicious lack of dragons).

    #9524

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster

    Thanks for the great feedback!

    Couple of quick notes re: some of your comments.

    – This is a demonstration scenario, in a scenario with regular flow, high level units wouldn’t be available.
    – Thanks for the note on the spelling, we’ll need to do a big pass on that.
    – Note that trigger delay of spells like Destabilized Mana Core allow enemies to dispel it before it goes off -> if they have enough casting points left. Units will always stay the most important.
    – Units currently start 1 hex further from the city gate than in AoWSM 🙂

    Please help spread the word on the new video! 🙂

    #9525

    vicwaberub
    Member

    I’m a great fan of AoW and MoM (and now I play Fallen Enchantress too) – I play these games continuously since 1994. It s an nice video, but the interface is bad. Only two points:

    1. Its in a psychological wrong position: In the front is always better as on the horizon. The new feature of AoW3 is 3D, so the horizon is more important now. Why is the interface there? You can see the problems in the battle: You cast a spell and… can’t see the enemys anymore! 🙁

    2. It hasn’t any fantasy-feeling like in AoW:SM. For example the icons of buildings are only… colorful. AoW:SM has a very good interface, nearly perfect: colors for categorys of buildings (mana, war, productions, other), clear design with left und right side. The 2D map seems to be inspired bei Elemental, the spellbook by Kings Bounty. I don’t understand this. Will the interface be themable?

    I hope its only an alpha-interface and the realeased one will be so good as in AoW:SM.

    #9528

    Tomipapa
    Member

    Please help spread the word on the new video!

    Already posted it on Age of Heroes(biggest heroes fansite) and rpg codex, and the reaction was really good 🙂

    #9529

    Flenoom
    Moderator

    Thanks for the note on the spelling

    *cough*public*cough*beta*cough*test…

    #9530

    Piko LV
    Member

    I hope its only an alpha-interface and the realeased one will be so good as in AoW:SM.

    Well, in my opinion SM interface was pretty bad. It lacked any sense of magic – especially when compared with AoW1’s.

    #9531

    Well, in my opinion SM interface was pretty bad. It lacked any sense of magic – especially when compared with AoW1′s.

    AoW i <- AoW2/Sm<- AoW3 imo

    AoW i is the worst by far – mainly due to its age. 2/SM is less arty, but does the job better (and looks better imo)

    #9532

    So awesome! Can’t wait to play this game O_O

    I liked everything, really, but I have doubts about 2 things:

    * Class theme color: Please, don’t make everything druidic green, or everything dreadnoughtish brown, etc. I know I’m going ahead in time with this, but after seeing it in HoMM 6, I just don’t want it anywhere else, hehe.

    * Cooldowns: I’m not sure I like a cooldown based system for abilities. Maybe for some seldom very powerful ability (?), it could be ok. But not for most of them. And certainly not when the other options a unit has is to defend or move, like the case with the cannons in the video. That just feels like “passing”.

    #9533

    LordTheRon
    Member

    I absolutely loved this trailer! Besides that is brings back fond memories it really leaps the game into the next age. I love the whole scale of things and the epic feel to it.

    The game really screams for a public beta! (well, at least I do) 😉

    #9534

    Tomipapa
    Member

    Some bug like thing i noticed:

    1. The orc shock troopers icon shows that they have a shield and a sword/spear like weapon but actually they have a big 2 handed axe.

    2. Before the cannon hit the Horned God the damage calculation predict 7-11 damage(because of the obstructed penalty)but when the cannon hit him it did 27 damage

    This is not a bug more like a balance thing, but i noticed that most unit in this demo(and in the previous demonstration) have a defense value between 9 and 13. I think its a bit small scale. Especially when i see that the musketeers(T1 unit) have 11 defense and the Archon Titan(T4) has 13. Ok i dont want 10-15 defense difference between low and high tiers, but if a half naked man has 10 defense and a fully armored knight has only 12-13 that would be a bit “strange” for me

    #9535

    HellBrick
    Moderator

    Okay, it’s my turn =)

    1. Small gold bonus for using Tree crusher ability is a very nice touch.
    2. More diversity between the map hexes themselves is an awesome thing. In the past a hex could be in one of the two states resource-wise: it could either provide some income from the crop field, or it couldn’t. Idea of the hexes giving different amounts and even different types of bonuses based on the terrain/obstacle type is awesome.

    Just a side note: I really like the way the game makes you interact with terrain and landscape. Technically these parts of the world were presented in AoW 2, but you barely could do anything about them, they were like predetermined obstacles. Now when you can actually change the world around you and see that even small things you do influence it, it somehow seems more real.

    3. New resource type: food. Or was it already mentioned somewhere? Anywhere, it’s interesting to see what role it will play in this world. My imagination goes straight to strategic things like cutting off the food supply of a city under a siege – I really hope we’ll see things like that 😉

    4. New “daily” productions: Generate mana and Seek knowledge to complete the line of Merchandise and Build housing. On one hand, it makes sense to be able to have these specializations as well, after all, merchandise and houses are only 2 of possible resource types, what was so special about them? On the other hand, I really hope the profit from these is too low to make any real difference: too much flexibility can actually be a bad thing, after some threshold it starts ruining the diversity.

    5. Displaying the reward when offering a quest is a very nice idea. Too many quests have been completed to get something completely useless, too many curses have been sent to ungrateful spirits of war, order, magic and nature =) The possibility to see what you’re running this errand for is great.

    6. (Not really a new thing, but I don’t think I’ve mentioned that I like it before so…) I also like the new degrees of elemental protection =)

    7. New tactical feature with cannons hitting everything in the line is brilliant. It’s things like that that create the depth of the tactical combat, we definitely need more of those!

    8. I can say the same thing about the machine + reload combo. I’m really looking forward to seeing new effective combinations of units in the future, that’s something AoW 2 lacked.

    9. I have a questions about the Defend command. Does it boost the unit’s defense or is it simple a way to mark unit as not selectable by “next unit” button? And if it doesn’t boost the defense, then why the hell not? 😉

    10. Self-destruct can now be triggered by the enemy by destroying a unit. I remember discussing this suggestion in the MPE laboratory, and we decided not to do it for a very simple reason: this ability would simply became an anti-bonus, because in every siege the defender will easily destroy units with it during the 1st round, thus heavily damaging the attacker’s force. On the other hand, it makes an incredible amount of sense for a bomb to explode if its carrier is destroyed. So I’m still have no idea if it’s a good idea or a bad idea %)

    11. And now for the only really negative thing in this post. The flamethrower’s fire somehow leaves wooden(!!!) walls intact, but damages the units behind them. It looked weird 10 years ago, it looks weird today. I think the most logical thing is for wooden wall to burn when it’s set on fire, but not allow the flame to somehow pass through it and hit the units behind.

    #9536

    10. Self-destruct can now be triggered by the enemy by destroying a unit. I remember discussing this suggestion in the MPE laboratory, and we decided not to do it for a very simple reason: this ability would simply became an anti-bonus, because in every siege the defender will easily destroy units with it during the 1st round, thus heavily damaging the attacker’s force. On the other hand, it makes an incredible amount of sense for a bomb to explode if its carrier is destroyed. So I’m still have no idea if it’s a good idea or a bad idea %)

    Good question, especially since it seems like you still can’t arrange your units before conflict to minimize such things, or put more delicate units in the back (maybe that could be a partial fix?). However, I remember that self destruct only damaged the hero a little, and killed the Horned God because it was almost dead anyway, so maybe this “auto self destruct” does less damage than an intentional “self destruct”.

    11. And now for the only really negative thing in this post. The flamethrower’s fire somehow leaves wooden(!!!) walls intact, but damages the units behind them. It looked weird 10 years ago, it looks weird today. I think the most logical thing is for wooden wall to burn when it’s set on fire, but not allow the flame to somehow pass through it and hit the units behind.

    yeah, that is pretty silly, but I wonder how the most logical thing will affect our favorite furnaces on wings. After all, if logic is our guide, why should a flame tank’s fire burn the walls, and a dragon’s not? I assume that flying still lets a creature go over walls, so that seems like a dragon can now burn its way through for others after hoping the wall.

    Also, why not, if we are going to burn wood here, just split the damage between the walls and people? After all, if you shoot a flamethrower at the top of a wall towards some people, some will likely spill over and burn the people a little.

    #9539

    Tomipapa
    Member

    I have a questions about the Defend command. Does it boost the unit’s defense or is it simple a way to mark unit as not selectable by “next unit” button? And if it doesn’t boost the defense, then why the hell not?

    it gives defense bonus. the spider has 9 defense and 11 after using the defend command. the bonus was even greater for the orc greatswords(from 11 to 14)

    #9542

    NEHZ
    Member

    Now that I’ve watched it a second time, I wanted to point out that I really like how the lava looks really hot.

    My concern: there wasn’t any indication towards the damage that the timebomb could deal when selecting the spell. There weren’t any numbers shown when it was dealing damage either.

    #9543

    Wakah-Chan
    Member

    New screenshots published on a russian gamesite Riotpixels including close-ups of mighty landship: http://ru.riotpixels.com/games/age-of-wonders-3/screenshots/

    #9547

    Karolinger
    Member

    And why the wooden wall doesn’t burn?
    I hope there will be heads as in Heroes 3 or 4

    #9550

    Ice Age
    Member

    OK i watched this awesome trailer for like five times now and i am ready to make my input on it.
    Some guys here proposed that a war machine wont be able to move and fire in the same turn, but think about it for a sec, with the new “fire once per 2 turns” mechanic and combining the proposed movement/fire penalty, that makes the cannon rate of fire way to slow to be useful!
    An example:
    Turn 1: the cannon moves to position.
    Turn 2: the cannon fires, engineers reload the cannon.
    Turn 3: the cannon moves again for a better firing position and though it was reloaded last turn it still cant fire because it moved.
    Turn 4: the spell blows all to hell.
    In my opinion combining the two will make both the cannon and the engineers pretty useless! so its either move/fire mechanic or fire every other turn mechanic, but not both.
    BTW a cannon unlike a trebuchet is a very mobile war machine, so it is not unlogical that it can move and fire in the same turn.
    On the same topic of fire every other turn, I’ve noticed that an archer that haven’t moved (or moved very small distance) can fire 3 times in a row (he did total of 12 damage in the trailer), while the musketeer can fire once every two turns regardless of their movement (and did total of 9 damage).
    It means that using this stats, it will take the musketeer a total of 6 turns (9 damage for 2 turns times 3 for a total of 27) to inflict the same amount of damage that will take the unmoving archers 2.3 turns to do (4 damage 3 times per turn for 2 turns equals 24 damage + one attack from the third turn for other 4 damage for a total of 28).
    I know its not the full power of the musketeers because of the wall penalties and such, but still i worry their real power wont compensate for this handicap.
    So to summarize the fire every two turns in my opinion: cannons- loved it, musketeers- not sure yet.
    Also, i know it was an Alpha stage demonstration, but still there was no animation for the spiders web ability (the web just appeared), i do hope it will be added later.
    And last, the changes of the UI compared to the first trailer are pretty cool! but i would still like to have a small cool round button for the underground/surface map change instead of just clicking the arrows under the minimap…
    And great job for the developers! cant wait to get my hands on the finished game…

    #9551

    Red Key
    Member

    @Ice Age – have you played AoW:SM or AoW2? I like that cannons require a turn to reload, but they should not be able to move their entire movement range and fire on the same turn. In AoW2/SM cannons could move a short distance and still fire. This distance was shown in green and there were also yellow and red movement ranges. If the cannon moved into the yellow or red ranges then that was too many moves for it to fire. I have noticed they have green, yellow, and red ranges in AoW3 too. I think most of us want cannons to work similar to AoW2/SM and only be able to fire if they move within the green range. These mechanics make things more realistic and are not as bad as the example you gave. As pointed out earlier it is very unrealistic for cannons to have maneuverability that is the same as or greater than infantry.

    I also think it is strange for muskets to have a cooldown turn. I hope they change that or make the game easily moddable 😉 so we can change it if they don’t.

    #9552

    HellBrick
    Moderator

    I think most of us want cannons to work similar to AoW2/SM and only be able to fire if they move within the green range.

    Can’t speak for the “most of us”, but I don’t. In real AoW 2 games classic siege machines were almost completely unusable in attack, and boosting their speed and allowing shooting from the “red” movement area should make them a valid part of the game. After all they are siege machines, not defense-only machines.

    #9553

    11balanced
    Member

    HellBrick:

    What you are speaking about is a balance issue. You can make siege machines more useful by tweaking their cost, availability, damage rate and so on. But they SHOULD be slow. Otherwise it just kills their specific. I don’t want each simple cannon behave like a tank.

    Yes you can’t just rush with them towards your opponent. But you can close in slowly, bombarding the enemy from long distance and forcing him to attack first. The realistic mechanics also makes you to combine war machines with supporting infantry, while ‘mobile cannons’ don’t need it – you can make just stupid cannon rush.

    Yes reload feature weakens cannons. But instead we now have multiple damage along the fire line, which seriously deepens the tactics. Imagine you have two stacks of cannons (with some supporting engineers and infantry) and the opponent is under cross-fire ))

    #9556

    11balanced
    Member

    … but when it comes to fire tank (and probably to land ship), than ‘shooting from red’ could be OK IMO. The engine allows that units to move faster and to shoot any time they want contrary to common siege machines.

    The musketeers also can use that ability being as mobile, as all infantry units. It gives them advantage vs archers (who can shoot only once from red) which compensates the disadvantage of reloading.

    #9557

    11balanced
    Member

    … And dear colleges, let me explain one principal moment: so big concern about that ‘fire from red’ issue derives from the fact that AOW (especially AOW-2) has the most realistic combat mechanics among all fantasy TBS games (if I’m wrong please try to correct me)))

    #9559

    but i would still like to have a small cool round button for the underground/surface map change instead of just clicking the arrows under the minimap…

    i really disagree, its my favourite ui feature. A constant up and down arrow means we can mod in multiple levels.
    So 3 underground levels, UG3 <-> Top <-> UG1 <-> Ug2 <-> Ug3 <-> Top.
    Thats too many levels for fully fleshed out lands for pvp, but for dungeons in pvp or fully fleshed out lands for epic role play maps or just massive week long games against the ai i think it would be wonderful! Thats right, i used the W word!

    I like that cannons require a turn to reload, but they should not be able to move their entire movement range and fire on the same turn.

    Thats the issue a lot of people seem to have, moving into the red and firing seems to be quite OP – especially since 1 cannon can almost take out a squad of t2/3 (the shamans and the orc shock troops nearly wiped out by 1 cannon blast).

    If you have 3 cannons + 3 engineers in your team, moving into the red and then hitting anything your opponent has and killing it … man that is pretty imba imo.

    After all they are siege machines, not defense-only machines.

    Siege engines were always the best things to take mid-late game to sieges. Some races had wall crushing, but for the most part… cannons = op siege stuff! And also great for slow advancing armies.

    … but when it comes to fire tank (and probably to land ship), than ‘shooting from red’ could be OK IMO.

    Yea some things will make sense, especially things that end with tank hehe 😀

    #9562

    vicwaberub
    Member

    I’m very interested in the interface design. Please tell me:

    @piko: What was bad in the interface of AoW:SM?
    @ihunterkiller: What is better in the interface of AoW3 as in AoW:SM?

    #9565

    Tomipapa
    Member

    Thats the issue a lot of people seem to have, moving into the red and firing seems to be quite OP – especially since 1 cannon can almost take out a squad of t2/3 (the shamans and the orc shock troops nearly wiped out by 1 cannon blast).

    If you have 3 cannons + 3 engineers in your team, moving into the red and then hitting anything your opponent has and killing it … man that is pretty imba imo.

    You guys forget one thing. Now the game more heavily penalize the bad positioning than ever before. Now you cant place your units in a row like the AI did. Another thing you have to pay attention and its good. The shooting any other turn is quite enough balance the moving+shooting cannon imo. The problem with the engineers. The fact that they can use the reload in every turn is imba. Let them use the reload only in every other turn and increase the ap cost to 2.

    About musketeers: i love that they have to wait 1 turn its realistic. Dont forget they have much higher damage(40) than an archer. The musketeers did nearly the same damage with one heavily penalized shoot(line of sight and ranged penalty) as the hunters with 3 shoot. So imo its quite balanced again one freaking high damage shoot vs the normal archer low damage 3/turn.

    One thing i didnt see anyone mentioned: the musketeers have melee strike ability(and might all archer). So they are not completely useless even when they cant shoot.

    musketeers

    #9569

    Shaak
    Member

    All this machinarium things did world looking less fairy tale and more steampank magic world … i hope itss not ruined feelings which i have playing in AoW before…

    #9573

    All this machinarium things did world looking less fairy tale and more steampank magic world … i hope itss not ruined feelings which i have playing in AoW before…

    AoW1/2 had plenty of machinery and steampunky stuff. Muskets, pistols, drills, flamethrowers, steam tanks, air ships, canons, etc.

    #9574

    @iHunterKiller: What is better in the interface of AoW3 as in AoW:SM?

    Tts much more streamlined, i didn’t mean to say that i think the UI “looks” better – even though i said that lol xD Sorry
    I meant it works better. I would rather have an integrated UI that doesnt cover 3/4 of the screen especially considering how crisp and clean the ui looks when it first rolled out, it looks quite up to date to me.


    Of course we can expect to see modders taking it back to its roots and changing the UI — at least artistically if its unable to add more windows.

    Also we didnt see any popup/info windows for the descriptions of the city so god only knows if those tabs/windows were just closed or if they are like normal popups etc – and id they are normal then i recon the “popups” could be modded into windows for the other side of the screen for the fans who want to play with that type of UI 😀

    Now the game more heavily penalize the bad positioning than ever before. Now you cant place your units in a row like the AI did. Another thing you have to pay attention and its good.

    It has more emphasis on positioning as before, but not LOADS more or anything like that (the catapult had the fireball alt attack, the flamethrower was aoe, the steamtank had the steam aoe, and these are just the machines.)

    The shooting any other turn is quite enough balance the moving+shooting cannon imo. The problem with the engineers. The fact that they can use the reload in every turn is imba. Let them use the reload only in every other turn and increase the ap cost to 2.

    Perhaps finding the right balance here is the key. Running into the red however will always be a no as adds far to much flexibility to a cannon, i agree it should be able to move and shoot, but that kind of movement is insane.

    Maybe moving further out of the green decreases accuracy of the cannon (and thus damage) I would be happy with that too, makes enough sense for me to get behind it.

    The engineers i agree with, i really like the way they work. However if the cooldown skill was given a cooldown (lol) then they should at least be turned into ranged units to give them some sort of usability for when they are on CD. Though i like them the way they are now.

    All this machinarium things did world looking less fairy tale and more steampank magic world … i hope itss not ruined feelings which i have playing in AoW before…

    Well lets try to not forget that this was the Dreadnought class – its meant to be steam powered 😀

    The arch druid was all fantasy 8)

    #9577

    3. New resource type: food. Or was it already mentioned somewhere? Anywhere, it’s interesting to see what role it will play in this world. My imagination goes straight to strategic things like cutting off the food supply of a city under a siege – I really hope we’ll see things like that

    I think it is tied to city growth. At least, that’s what I heard when he started building the granary. Don’t know if it will be like in Civ, where you can starve a city and make it shrink.

    8. I can say the same thing about the machine + reload combo. I’m really looking forward to seeing new effective combinations of units in the future, that’s something AoW 2 lacked.

    I love synergies as well and they make an excellent addition. But I’m wary of them becoming mandatory. It would seem like, in practice, you will not see stacks containing one without the other.

    10. Self-destruct can now be triggered by the enemy by destroying a unit. I remember discussing this suggestion in the MPE laboratory, and we decided not to do it for a very simple reason: this ability would simply became an anti-bonus, because in every siege the defender will easily destroy units with it during the 1st round, thus heavily damaging the attacker’s force. On the other hand, it makes an incredible amount of sense for a bomb to explode if its carrier is destroyed. So I’m still have no idea if it’s a good idea or a bad idea %)

    Yeah, that’s a very legitimate concern. I’m still hoping for some kind of unit arrangement for TCs.

    #9578

    I think it is tied to city growth. At least, that’s what I heard when he started building the granary. Don’t know if it will be like in Civ, where you can starve a city and make it shrink.

    It was also nice to see how the pioneers say how much people they cost, i don’t remember ever seeing that in SM.

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