German press tour finished, new footage and screenshots

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions German press tour finished, new footage and screenshots

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  • #13432

    Draxynnic
    Member

    @11balanced:

    On point 1: I’ve acknowledged several times that special abilities, attribute tweaks, and other details remain differences. You’ll note above, for instance, that in AoW2 I’ve put the troll and beholder in the same category (namely, tier 3 ranged units). There is a significant amount of difference between the troll and beholder – I trust that I don’t have to go into them in detail – but that difference is still much smaller than the difference between the troll and beholder on the one hand and any of the tier 3 elven units.

    For five out of seven racial units in AoW2, however, all but two of the slots (unless we see racial-specific war machines, since war machines are something we haven’t heard much of) are limited to no more than the difference between trolls and beholders – variations within a role that may in fact be quite significant, but are still doing basically the same job from a strategic perspective. The only places where we can see the possibility of having a very different role are in the irregular and special slots… and in at least one pairing (elves and draconians) both of these overlap in role.

    On point 2: There were terrain effects based on race in AoW2 as well, although I expect they will run deeper then the relatively shallow impact terrain had in AoW2.

    However, I don’t think this compensates for increased military homogeneity. With differences between the units of the races on a similar level of AoW3, I could see this as being something that adds another layer of strategic choice – do I populate this city with goblins that will thrive in the terrain, or do I populate it with elves that may not like the location so much, but will provide me with the troop types I want for the next stage of the campaign? As things are in AoW3, however, nine times out of ten I can see this coming down to an easy choice of just putting the race down that has the best economic benefit in the terrain, because regardless of which race is there you can still produce units which will do the job. Yes, I expect there will still be the odd time when you really need flyers (elves or draconians) or miners (dwarves) or whatever, but most of the time, it’ll probably be whatever’s economically advantageous.

    On point 3 I’d make similar comments – for different reactions by different races to policies to really matter, than the things you get out of having a diverse population also have to matter, otherwise you’ll just construct your entire empire out of whichever race will approve of your shenanigans (or lack therof) and go from there.

    (Or, to give an example of how a rogue might respond to this:

    “Your Sneakiness, there is unrest among the elven settlements. They feel that our actions of assassination, sabotage, and rabble-rousing within the cities of our enemies is dishonourable and demand that we act more in line with elven ideals.”

    “I see. Remind me, do any of our tactical plans require griffin riders to be carried out?”

    “Um… Your Sneakiness?”

    “Griffins. Do we really need them?”

    “Uh… not really, Your Sneakiness. Your succubi aren’t quite as efficient in aerial combat, but they’ll suffice until the negotiations with the black dragons bear fruit.”

    “That’s what I thought. Evict those pesky do-gooders and replace them with some nice goblins or orcs that won’t get squeamish when we’re doing what’s needed for victory.”

    “Yes, Your Sneakiness!”)

    This is where @jeanlucpicard‘s arrows are thunking into a strawman somewhere to my left, while mine seem to be sailing over his head. I am not contending that there is insufficient distinction between players. Between classes, specialisations, and, yes, the small differences between races (yes, even elves and draconians) there is a lot of space for distinctions between two empires. This is a good thing.

    My issue is… where is the distinction between having two or more races within an empire?

    In AoW1 and AoW2, securing a city of a race that wasn’t already present in your empire (and one where you can win over the population) was often something that significantly expanded your options. It meant you had a new range of troop types you could choose from, and while in some cases, yes, they’d just be variations on roles already being filled by units you could create with your existing races, usually adding a new race (particularly if it’s the first after your starting race) would also add a set of troops that fill roles and offer tactical options you just couldn’t take with your existing units. There’s a certain feeling of exhilaration in finally adding to your empire, by fair means or foul, a settlement of a race that will provide the unit that plugs the hole in your tactical capabilities that you’ve been looking to fill. (Of course, sometimes adding a new race presents options that you just won’t take because you’re happy with what you’re already using, but not taking advantage of an opportunity is still a choice.)

    In AoW3, I don’t think that feeling is going to be there to nearly the same extent. It might be, if you had no other way of getting flyers (although we don’t really know yet how important flying will be, except that it won’t be as abusable as in previous installments) or if there’s an irregular unit or support buff that does something that’s really amazing for your tactical position. But with relatively few points of distinction between the races, and with the option always there (with a little investment) to produce class units from any city, then the times in which adding a new race will provoke that reaction will, I think, be few. It might mean that you have sword-and-board guys with Block who are more suited to advancing under missile fire than the greatsword-wielding bruisers you had, or it might mean that you now have the opportunity to stack multiple buffs from different race’s support units, but that’s more along the lines of being able to eke out just a little more efficiency than really adding something new.

    What I do think will take the place of racial diversification in opening up new tactical possibilities is, I think, the creature habitats, which in many cases seem to offer things you just can’t do with racial units at all. A player who picks up the right creature habitat in AoW3 probably will have the same feeling as the AoW1 or AoW2 player who gets the race that adds just what they need to their tactical mix. But most of the time, they’re not going to get it by acquiring an additional race.

    #13443

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    As a break from all the lengthy debates, I just wanted to point out that Age of Wonders 3 now has a pretty awesome looking box cover over on German Amazon.

    For some reason I can’t seem to get the image to display properly, but you can see it over on their page:

    http://www.amazon.de/Eurovideo-VG-Age-Wonders-III/dp/B00F34LZX4/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1385479215&sr=1-1&keywords=Age+of+Wonders+3

    #13446

    #13448

    mrXD89
    Member

    As a break from all the lengthy debates, I just wanted to point out that Age of Wonders 3 now has a pretty awesome looking box cover over on German Amazon.

    For some reason I can’t seem to get the image to display properly, but you can see it over on their page:

    http://www.amazon.de/Eurovideo-VG-Age-Wonders-III/dp/B00F34LZX4/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1385479215&sr=1-1&keywords=Age+of+Wonders+3

    Wow it’s relly good but… where’s the dwarf? And orc too?

    Really great artworks. One of the best boxes ever.

    #13450

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    On the cover it reads “Vorläufiges” which means “Preliminary”. Well, that’s pretty damn good considering it’s technically a placeholder. I wonder if they’ll use it for the final product.

    It’s very eye-catching and sticks to the same theme as AoW2 and SM covers, with the leaders high above and “larger than life” with battling armies below. I really like it. Visually, I think it’s the best so far.

    I’m guessing the Dreadnought in the middle is our “Idyllic young officer from the Commonwealth” that Ray Bingham said would play the other part in the campaign. Reskar and Sundren are also there, but I’ve never seen the other two before.

    #13451

    Knight9910
    Member

    For the elf female I’m going to guess Julia…or maybe Julia’s daughter. She does have a daughter and a son now, remember?

    The one problem I have with it is that the leaders aren’t supposed to be “above everything” and “larger than life.” That’s kind of the entire point of Age of Wonders 3 – the godlike wizards who treated mere mortals as expendable pawns to be used up and discarded for their whims are gone. AoW3 leaders are supposed to be more like the heroes: stronger and more competent, but still of the people.

    #13454

    As a break from all the lengthy debates, I just wanted to point out that Age of Wonders 3 now has a pretty awesome looking box cover over on German Amazon.

    For some reason I can’t seem to get the image to display properly, but you can see it over on their page:

    http://www.amazon.de/Eurovideo-VG-Age-Wonders-III/dp/B00F34LZX4/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1385479215&sr=1-1&keywords=Age+of+Wonders+3

    Nice find. I want to order that game!

    #13455

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    For the elf female I’m going to guess Julia…or maybe Julia’s daughter. She does have a daughter and a son now, remember?

    Yep, that’s who Sundren is. Julia’s daughter is the rogue on the left without a doubt. I did think that the High Elf Sorcerer could be her brother but we know nothing about him, not even what he looks like, whereas Sundren was at least in some concept art with her parents, so it’s very possible it is him.

    The one problem I have with it is that the leaders aren’t supposed to be “above everything” and “larger than life.”

    I get what you’re saying, but I think what this was going for was that the scale of the story. The leaders may be “of the people” but the scale of their story and impact they’re likely to make on the world of Athla is still going to be a grand one. I don’t personally see it as oppressive, but I can see why you do.

    Star Wars and Lord of The Rings all used a similar approach in their advertising. They made the main characters these large, epic looking figures in comparison to the rest of the image. I think it’s just trying to give you the idea that these characters, for better or worse, are going to have a big impact on events. I mean, to be a hero or a leader you must be pretty extraordinary anyway, or everyone would be a leader.

    Nice find. I want to order that game!

    I do as well. It makes me nervous that they still haven’t given us an official release date despite what we’ve read. I hope they manage to get everything done in time because I don’t think I can wait any longer than March 2014. I’m barely managing to wait as it is 🙂

    #13456

    Tomipapa
    Member

    Thanks Speaker! Really good box cover.

    I see:
    -Sundren(Julia’s daughter)
    -The young officer from the Commonwealth campaign.
    -First i thought it’s Nomlik, the Goblin Theocrat who will lead a goblin rebellion against the Commonwealth, but then i saw the goblin wears a druid robe (just as the draconian guy so actually there are 2 druid on the screen).
    -Reskar would be the Draconian guy? I don’t remember him. Can you tell more about him Speaker?
    -I don’t think the Sorceror guy is Julia’s son for 2 reason:
    1. Looks too old
    2. Ray said: “The son is a great Prince, who is everything you’d think a son of Julia might be” In my book that would be: charming, just, honest, all the good and valiant things bla bla. And that guy is none of these, more like some one who could rape you with a chain lightning 🙂

    #13460

    So, we have a release date now? 14th of march? That’s… quite some time away. But expected.

    #13461

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    -Reskar would be the Draconian guy? I don’t remember him. Can you tell more about him Speaker?

    Oh, I don’t know anything special about him other than what I observed. In the 27 minute demonstration with Sikbok (the one this thread is about), at about 20:09 there is character creation. The way that Draconian leader initially looks is very very similar to the draconian on the front cover, not only in facial features but also in coloring, with the orange etc. At about 20:56 we see that his name is Reskar Scapechanger.

    While I’d normally think it was just a random leader, Reskar’s name is also seen during Lennart’s video with Shnaga. When Lennart is setting up the scenario with Gorsmog, we see 3 leaders in the scenario screen (at about 5:07), and the last on the list is a Draconian Arch-Druid named Reskar, also with similar orange coloring. That makes me think Reskar is one of the already pre-created leaders, and possibly the guy on the cover. I mean, how many Draconian druids with rams horns are there that like orange? 🙂

    So, we have a release date now? 14th of march? That’s… quite some time away. But expected.

    I thought it was the 18th? Either way, I suppose it’s not official until it’s Triumph official. The release date is also the PC Game website in their review. I’d still be a lot more comfortable about it if they made the statement themselves though. I still see “Q1, 2014” as replies, but maybe they want to play it safe just in case everything takes a bit longer than planned.

    #13465

    Red Key
    Member

    http://www.amazon.de/Eurovideo-VG-Age-Wonders-III/dp/B00F34LZX4/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1385479215&sr=1-1&keywords=Age+of+Wonders+3

    +1 Great cover

    #13467

    What I do think will take the place of racial diversification in opening up new tactical possibilities is, I think, the creature habitats, which in many cases seem to offer things you just can’t do with racial units at all. A player who picks up the right creature habitat in AoW3 probably will have the same feeling as the AoW1 or AoW2 player who gets the race that adds just what they need to their tactical mix. But most of the time, they’re not going to get it by acquiring an additional race.

    So doesn’t that moot the issue? If the same feeling is there, and there is room to make maps where there is a classic race feel and or a DLC with a few more race units (or a mod by some people to do that), I don’t think any substantive harm has been done.

    #13493

    Draxynnic
    Member

    @Chrys: Not really. The focus of my disappointment is that the importance of the racial identity of your cities has been greatly diminished. That there is something else that exists in the game to grant you more options doesn’t alleviate that.

    It means that there’s plenty of scope for differentiation between factions, particularly if mapmakers work in additional advantages and disadvantages for the factions, but it still leaves a position where, militarily speaking, it doesn’t make much difference what race a particular city is, since you’ll be producing similar things from it regardless.

    An additional consideration is that creature dwellings are presumably something you can’t create more of yourself, while it may be possible to found new cities. Having stronger distinctions between the races, both economically and militarily, adds additional dimensions to the choice involved in which city you’ll have build a settler to be dispatched to the site in question.

    A DLC adding more race units would certainly address this, as long as the added units are given the freedom to be substantially different in role rather than continuing to follow a formula.

    #13498

    Eh yeah I meant the 18th. Long day and I quickly read over the 14 part of 2014…

    #13506

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    Eh yeah I meant the 18th. Long day and I quickly read over the 14 part of 2014…

    No problem, it just got my hopes up as the 14th is a Friday, so it actually would have suited me better to dedicate a whole weekend of not sleeping and playing AoW3 🙂

    #13507

    No problem, it just got my hopes up as the 14th is a Friday, so it actually would have suited me better to dedicate a whole weekend of not sleeping and playing AoW3 :)

    I will be taking a holiday when AoW3 gets released. I always do that when a game comes out that I’ve been looking forward to. So I’ll be playing AoW3 for at the very least one week non-stop 😀

    #13548

    Fenraellis
    Member

    In light of the rather long debate going on, I thought I would just bring up one point.

    Base unit diversity keeps being mentioned, but what about the diversity that can be brought up by racially-unique buildings. Star examples from Shadow Magic would be the Orc, Human, Elven and Draconian racial structures(convenient, as the races are also in this game). Structures which actually added new abilities to the units made in their racial cities, and not usable by others, or in the Elven case, shrouded their city in trees and concealed the units inside.

    So, perhaps the core racial units are similar, but there is a precedent for racial structures that can further separate similar units, and possibly even differentiate same-class units of different races as well!
    To Crudely use the bonuses from AoWSM into AoW3, a Warlord could gain entirely different advantages from Draconians with Regeneration(only useful outside of combat), and Orcs with Life-stealing(only useful inside of combat).

    That’s just one example of course, and said bonuses may or may not exist, or even be in a greater degree. While I don’t remember having seen them confirming the presence of racial structures, I don’t recall them confirming the lack of them either.

    Either way, this is just to get another perspective into the discussion.

    #13549

    Knight9910
    Member

    Well, we know there will be class structures, like the Dreadnought’s Magic Dampener or whatever it was. (Incidentally, is the Dreadnought page messed up for anyone else?)

    #13551

    Terevolt
    Member

    (Incidentally, is the Dreadnought page messed up for anyone else?

    I just tried it and it doesn’t show for me either.

    #13552

    vfxrob
    Member

    Might see some updates!

    #13555

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Well, we know there will be class structures, like the Dreadnought’s Magic Dampener or whatever it was. (Incidentally, is the Dreadnought page messed up for anyone else?)

    I think Fenraelis’ point is that have race-specific structures would be another way of creating meaningful differences between races – which the class-specific structures obviously wouldn’t do.

    (Personally, I don’t think a special ability like lifesteal or regeneration really makes more of a difference than what I expect there already to be – it’s just requiring a building to unlock an ability that could just have been a base characteristic of the race. Special defenses or the like, on the other hand…)

    On the dreadnought page… *checks* Yes. Yes it is.

    #13571

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    So the Dreadnought page is broken, and we haven’t had a new page since, despite being promised will get one a month until release. That makes me sad 🙁

    #13572

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    We’re sorry. We’re just *really* busy here now.
    Jimmy is ill, which doesn’t help either.
    Know please for a fact we’re not forgetting you all and the forum and the site!

    Now that I am experiencing it from this side I understand a lot better how sometimes there just is no time, and not because you guys aren’t important, but precisely because you guys are important, but in a different way than showing screenshots and dev journals. Of course me writing that doesn’t help you right now, but it’s all I can offer at this time.

    It’s definitely on the todo-list!

    #13573

    TheSpeaker
    Member

    We’re sorry. We’re just *really* busy here now.<br>
    Jimmy is ill, which doesn’t help either.<br>
    Know please for a fact we’re not forgetting you all and the forum and the site!

    Now that I am experiencing it from this side I understand a lot better how sometimes there just is no time, and not because you guys aren’t important, but precisely because you guys are important, but in a different way than showing screenshots and dev journals. Of course me writing that doesn’t help you right now, but it’s all I can offer at this time.

    Thanks for the reassurance Narvek, your explanation put things in perspective. I know we seem demanding at times, but it’s just our unhealthy love for the game and overwhelming enthusiasm that makes us so hungry for more information.

    Good luck to you and everyone else on the team, you’re not too far now. Just don’t forget to sleep 🙂

    #13574

    We’re sorry. We’re just *really* busy here now.<br>
    Jimmy is ill, which doesn’t help either.<br>
    Know please for a fact we’re not forgetting you all and the forum and the site!

    Now that I am experiencing it from this side I understand a lot better how sometimes there just is no time, and not because you guys aren’t important, but precisely because you guys are important, but in a different way than showing screenshots and dev journals. Of course me writing that doesn’t help you right now, but it’s all I can offer at this time.

    It’s definitely on the todo-list!

    “Beterschap” to Jimmy.

    #13581

    Knight9910
    Member

    Not sure who Jimmy is, but yeah, get well soon!

    #13582

    vfxrob
    Member

    Jimmy is the website guru, yeah it helps thanks Narvek.

    #13586

    Fenraellis
    Member

    I think Fenraelis’ point is that have race-specific structures would be another way of creating meaningful differences between races – which the class-specific structures obviously wouldn’t do.

    (Personally, I don’t think a special ability like lifesteal or regeneration really makes more of a difference than what I expect there already to be – it’s just requiring a building to unlock an ability that could just have been a base characteristic of the race. Special defenses or the like, on the other hand…)

    As you say, simply adding an ability could have been part of the innate racial characteristic, but it could also be seen as a sort of expansion or delving further into your racial knowledge. That being said, I do agree and always thought that things like the Elven, Tigran, Nomad, Undead, and other similar structures, that actually affected the cities’ play-style itself, were some of the more interesting ones.

    #13590

    Thanks for explaining Narvek. Good to hear everyone is very busy working on the game and that we are not forgotten. I hope Jimmy recover soon.

    On race and/or class specific structures: I am curious how this will work in the game – what bonus they provide e.d. (assuming they will be there, but I am not sure). There is so much to look forward to…

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