Ghoul Curse over-rides Resurgence?

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Ghoul Curse over-rides Resurgence?

This topic contains 20 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  quo 7 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #193139

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Is this a bug or intended?

    #193140

    not quite sure how that would happen, as ghoul curse only works if you win the battle as a necromancer. Did the enemy ghoul curse and kill your unit with resurgence, which then did not come back when you won the battle?

    #193143

    Epaminondas
    Member

    not quite sure how that would happen, as ghoul curse only works if you win the battle as a necromancer. Did the enemy ghoul curse and kill your unit with resurgence, which then did not come back when you won the battle?

    Exactly.

    Edit: Jesus, I am really hating the Necromancer class more and more. First, there was Invoke Death; now the class can even over-ride Resurgence?! WTH. Triumph really wants me to play like the Zerg, and not Protoss! 🙁

    #193170

    Gloweye
    Member

    I don’t believe this was intended…

    Didn’t something else happen as well? Was the unit raised by Chant of Unlife / Raise Corpse? Those DO override Resurgence…

    #193272

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I don’t believe this was intended…

    Didn’t something else happen as well? Was the unit raised by Chant of Unlife / Raise Corpse? Those DO override Resurgence…

    It fought as a ghoul or cadaver or something during the battle. Then it didn’t come back. This was a Exalted.

    #193273

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gloweye wrote:</div>
    I don’t believe this was intended…

    Didn’t something else happen as well? Was the unit raised by Chant of Unlife / Raise Corpse? Those DO override Resurgence…

    It fought as a ghoul or cadaver or something during the battle. Then it didn’t come back. This was a Exalted.

    If it was Cadavered (which is not Ghoul curse), then yeah, that would override Resurgence.

    If it was Chant of Unlife which raised it during the battle (The only form of Ghoulification which raises a unit DURING battle), then I think that also overrides Resurgence, too. But that isn’t unique to Necromancers. Any city with a Tomb can do that one.

    #193274

    Epaminondas
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Epaminondas wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gloweye wrote:</div><br>
    I don’t believe this was intended…

    Didn’t something else happen as well? Was the unit raised by Chant of Unlife / Raise Corpse? Those DO override Resurgence…

    It fought as a ghoul or cadaver or something during the battle. Then it didn’t come back. This was a Exalted.

    If it was Cadavered (which is not Ghoul curse), then yeah, that would override Resurgence.

    Ah, ok. Damn…

    Exalted are even more worthless now.

    #193275

    Gloweye
    Member

    Yeah, both of those are intended to override Resurgence and Undying. Sorry man.

    #193278

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ravenholme wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Epaminondas wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gloweye wrote:</div><br><br>
    I don’t believe this was intended…

    Didn’t something else happen as well? Was the unit raised by Chant of Unlife / Raise Corpse? Those DO override Resurgence…

    It fought as a ghoul or cadaver or something during the battle. Then it didn’t come back. This was a Exalted.

    If it was Cadavered (which is not Ghoul curse), then yeah, that would override Resurgence.

    Ah, ok. Damn…

    Exalted are even more worthless now.

    Exalted. Worthless.

    We are definitely playing two different games.

    Anyway, the thing to remember is that the Necromancer and Theocrat match up is one where you are both incredibly good at screwing up each others day. You’re expert at killing them, and they at killing you.

    #193292

    Anything that uses up the corpse prevents resurgence, undying and other end of combat effects, including ghoul curse.
    These are the different raise/animate dead things, resurrection and magic like essence harvest or curpus furia.

    However that doesn’t make exalted useless, it just removes them a tiny step from fire-and-forget utility.

    #193326

    Meeky
    Member

    Anything that uses up the corpse prevents resurgence, undying and other end of combat effects, including ghoul curse.<br>
    These are the different raise/animate dead things, resurrection and magic like essence harvest or curpus furia.

    However that doesn’t make exalted useless, it just removes them a tiny step from fire-and-forget utility.

    Wait…

    essence harvest

    Hold the phone. You mean if I’m fighting a hero-based enemy army using Resurgence items, I can cast Essence Harvest after killing a few of them and they won’t come back?

    FIN-A-FREAKING-LY!

    #193327

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Hold the phone. You mean if I’m fighting a hero-based enemy army using Resurgence items, I can cast Essence Harvest after killing a few of them and they won’t come back?

    <strong class=”d4pbbc-bold”>FIN-A-FREAKING-LY!

    I suspect heroes will always be able to come back from anything – they are heroes after all.

    So EL massively nerfs one of the primary tools of the Theocrat class: Resurgence. Perhaps the class needs some compensation?

    #193328

    vyolin
    Member

    Hold the phone. You mean if I’m fighting a hero-based enemy army using Resurgence items, I can cast Essence Harvest after killing a few of them and they won’t come back?

    <strong class=”d4pbbc-bold”>FIN-A-FREAKING-LY!

    I can see that making people cry who rely on suicidal autocombat-heroes having Resurgence.
    Intriguing.

    #193331

    Ericridge
    Member

    Yesterday I had few champions die.

    I queued up a few new knights to replace them.

    I was slightly upset. Devastating charges of the new knights soothed that upset.

    #193340

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Exalted. Worthless.

    We are definitely playing two different games.

    Anyway, the thing to remember is that the Necromancer and Theocrat match up is one where you are both incredibly good at screwing up each others day. You’re expert at killing them, and they at killing you.

    It’s not a Necromancer v. Theocrat issue alone.

    Any Necromancer hero can get a spell that makes Resurgence worthless, even if you are not a Necromancer leader – not to mention the fact that you can take an Adept Specialization (one that people like and will take anyways) to do the same.

    This hugely nerfs Theocrats in general and the Exalted in particular. Why use units you know that has such an easily obtained counter?

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/el-massively-nerfs-resurgence-do-theocrats-need-compensatory-buffs/

    #193345

    Gloweye
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Meeky wrote:</div>
    Hold the phone. You mean if I’m fighting a hero-based enemy army using Resurgence items, I can cast Essence Harvest after killing a few of them and they won’t come back?

    <strong class=”d4pbbc-bold”>FIN-A-FREAKING-LY!

    I can see that making people cry who rely on suicidal autocombat-heroes having Resurgence.<br>
    Intriguing.

    crying people OP. They should just learn to be a bit more careful with them if there’s any risk.

    Yesterday I had few champions die.

    I queued up a few new knights to replace them.

    I was slightly upset. Devastating charges of the new knights soothed that upset.

    I see what you did there 😀

    Are you Necro? That would mean you can build them with Strong Will at the ready…

    #193554

    Ericridge
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ericridge wrote:</div>
    Yesterday I had few champions die.

    I queued up a few new knights to replace them.

    I was slightly upset. Devastating charges of the new knights soothed that upset.

    I see what you did there :D

    Are you Necro? That would mean you can build them with Strong Will at the ready…

    Nah, playing as grey guard Dreadnought atm. Its amusing.
    I practically rickrolled a manticore spamming goblin warlord.

    #193619

    Gloweye
    Member

    I practically rickrolled a manticore spamming goblin warlord.

    I can see why you’d like that…40% Physical Weakness on Manticores is pretty potent, especially if you’re a Dread..

    #193759

    Ericridge
    Member

    I can see why you’d like that…40% Physical Weakness on Manticores is pretty potent, especially if you’re a Dread..

    Wellll…. my fingers just mysteriously find themselves pushing that cardinal cutting button whenever they see 12+ manticores up against them. That goblin warlord could’ve diversified his army but he just refused and chose to die together with his manticores. I can respect that.

    But I should mention that at most I had like what, six flame tanks and six golems. Everything else was Knights, gryphon rider, chthonic guardians, deep lords, frigates, galleons, ironclads. There was a bunch of random vassal recruits donating their units to my cause as well.

    And it didn’t help the goblin warlord that I had alot of experience in battling manticore swarm from my time with Leana on that epic megabattle thread. Which mean whenever he tried to charge forth to retake a city, his armies was way too small..

    His final battle against me was seven manticores, himself, two beetle riders, warbreed and a hellhound vs my six golems, six flame tanks which just came to help after purging nests of undeads, seven knights, elite earth elemental, four chthonic guardians, plus myself and a necromancer hero he lost after that battle.

    It would be a totally different story if he remembered that lower tier units existed and had much bigger army as the result instead of going with uber powerful elite but small in numbers approach, its better to have both, alot of power small numbers of elites backed up by alot of general troops like tier 3 and below which will allow for alot of attrition damage to occur which will eventually result in deaths if one side don’t withdraw in time.

    #193784

    SiaFu
    Member

    You can prevent your unit with resurgence being a target of Raise Dead, etc. by parking a unit over it. Corpses in occupied hexes can’t be targeted by spells and abilities.
    This worked even with Animate Dead of 1.4, and I haven’t seen any change while playing a Necromancer.

    Caveat: It’s your responsibility to not make it 2 corpses in one hex, though.

    #193807

    quo
    Member

    I’m not bothered that there are ways around Resurgence, but Exalted, yeah. Not really worth the cost.

    Go for racial units instead and put them with lvl 11+ Theocrat heroes if you need Resurgence. Elsewise, go with the Resurgence MCI for Support units and get Evangelists, maybe Priests.

    Maybe Exalted will get a buff/repurposing at some point but I’m not holding my breath.

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