Give elf swordsmen a little something.

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Balance Give elf swordsmen a little something.

This topic contains 49 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  vota dc 7 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 50 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #168577

    llfoso
    Member

    I was looking at my swordsmen yesterday and noticed they all have such melancholy expressions across their faces, and I understand why; they didn’t get any new gifts from the 1.5 santa. Nothing to make them unique among t1 infantry.

    Why not give them martial arts? It would fit very well flavor wise; I’m sure we all associate elves with very acrobatic swordfighting, and it would give them a little more survivability to make up for their measly offense.

    #168584

    madmac
    Member

    No.

    Elves are already maybe the strongest race in the game and can live with having one unit that isn’t amazing.

    #168596

    llfoso
    Member

    It still wouldn’t be amazing. I’m looking for something to make it unique. I’m going to be making suggestions for other units from other races soon.

    Also, the flat “No.” comes across rather brusquely. The second sentence would suffice.

    #168602

    Quaranyr
    Member

    I agree that swordsmen really need something, for flavour atleast. Right now they feel like razorbows without inflict bleeding.

    #168603

    Gloweye
    Member

    There are plenty more units who didn’t have santa come along. Human Longswordsman, Draconian Crusher and Halfling Nightwatch for example(Halflings have generally had the fewest presents…)

    Also, I don’t think the unit needs it. You shouldn’t want to pick elves for the infantry, and all other units they have are pretty strong ATM.

    #168605

    Crusher got advanced wall climbing.

    I feel kinda split on this. On one had I’d like more of a reason to use elven swordsmen and for them to justify their flavor text instead of being probably the worst t1 infantry. On the other there’s already a lot of upgrades floating around and as mentioned elves are very strong already.

    One thing I find gives some usefulness to t1 inf in general is the fact that archers are so much more expensive (elven ones even more so) so they take 2 turns to train early on which can be enough to make you go for infantry.

    Martial Arts is not a bad idea though.

    #168616

    llfoso
    Member

    I want gifts for the halflings and humans too, but it’s more extensive and I ‘m typing on my phone.

    Nightwatch, pony riders, civic guards, longswordsmen, archers, and cavalry all could use a visit from 1.5 santa.

    #168621

    vota dc
    Member

    Well, we have human civic guard and orc razorbow too. To be more unique they could have +2 hp, +4 mp, 45 gold cost but -2 melee: easy to reach the enemy but they don’t hit hard.

    #168639

    Hieronymous
    Member

    Higher movement is a cool idea, but it would be really weird for the swordsmen, with their shields and armor, to get speedier movement than their less encumbered footy brethren. What about Strike First on a medal? Martial Arts sounds good, too. Either would nicely reflect elven speed in battle.

    #168653

    Gloweye
    Member

    I want gifts for the halflings and humans too, but it’s more extensive and I ‘m typing on my phone.

    Nightwatch, pony riders, civic guards, longswordsmen, archers, and cavalry all could use a visit from 1.5 santa.

    Pony Riders got +2 Resistance. That’s a pretty big gift from santa. Also, Civic guards got first strike on medal(Dunno if on the open yet, but if not, will be there soon). They also got a small present on the expansion content(Note: IMO smaller than the Pony Buffs).

    #168689

    llfoso
    Member

    I’m talking about gifts that make them special, not just stat boosts. I don’t mind a unit being weaker as long as it’s not samey. I suppose I shouldn’t have put this in the balance subforum.

    #168776

    Zaskow
    Member

    I was thinking about elf swordsmen. Maybe, giving them a small ability or stat change could fix their boredom?
    What do you think about adding such abilities or stat buffs?
    – ‘High morale’ on veteran;
    – additional shock damage, like Union guard;
    – Sprint (description said “high elves are quicker, then ever”);
    – overwhelm (Elf swordsman becomes only swordsman with shield and ‘antishield’ abitily).

    #169083

    NuMetal
    Member

    Elves are already maybe the strongest race in the game and can live with having one unit that isn’t amazing.

    Agreed!

    #169377

    Yeah, high elves have probably the best set of race gov upgrades. Once they come out, everyone will be happy.

    #169669

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    It’s true that the high elves have some wicked gov upgrades, however – I don’t think this is about making High Elf Swordsmen another super unit, but rather just making him viable in any sense and form.

    You have this very beautiful model, but you never produce it. Because it’s currently just a waste. I agree with OP here that something should be added to make people at least consider building the unit.

    I also agree with the captain on the flavor text. Currently doesn’t fit one bit. This would fit better “Useless high elf plebians put in a shiny armor to fight. Usually they get left behind or are sent to the front to die so rulers won’t have to pay their wages” . . =D (I exaggerate, for HUMOR!)

    +1 for Martial Arts C=

    #169840

    Prodigal Sun
    Member

    If you really need to distinguish the Elven Swordsman, make it a buff similar something Frostling Pikemen have. Not absorbing pain but a synergy of sorts. Like if they stand next to an Elven supoort they get added resistance – if next to archers more def. Yeah, anything..

    #169852

    Astraflame
    Member

    You have this very beautiful model, but you never produce it. Because it’s currently just a waste. I agree with OP here that something should be added to make people at least consider building the unit.

    High elf Swordman is probably the most happy T1 infantry, their survival rates are the best with Longbows killing scary stuff before it gets too close. If i did anything i’d change their damage to 8/2 Physical/Lightning like was done to the Uninon guard, for added flavor. Otherwise they’re pretty much there to provide longbows with a wall so they can keep shooting.

    #169854

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    High elf Swordman is probably the most happy T1 infantry, their survival rates are the best with Longbows killing scary stuff before it gets too close. If i did anything i’d change their damage to 8/2 Physical/Lightning like was done to the Uninon guard, for added flavor. Otherwise they’re pretty much there to provide longbows with a wall so they can keep shooting.

    So, I’m totally not trying to agitate here – I know writing can easily be interperted wrong, but let me ask you – Do you use them? Do you ever actually produce them? =)

    #169857

    Astraflame
    Member

    Sure i use them if i need archer protection, 50 gold cost often means i can produce them 1 turn and fast. Longbows are godly but still in need of protection, they’re shielded and can hold ranks. Once Pikemen are available i never build em, that’s a general problem of T1 ifantry being the worst group except for irregular and no scaling in the mid-late game. Human have the exact same problem.

    #169934

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    Good point – so basically, just a screening force. I usually skip the swordsmen completely and make due until I have a different unit to fill the role (class unit, neutral, union guard, etc.).

    And that’s true about the humans. Their Longswordmen are just a bad version of the Orc Greatsword really =)

    #169943

    Zaskow
    Member

    And that’s true about the humans. Their Longswordmen are just a bad version of the Orc Greatsword really =)

    That’s why, coz they haven’t any useful and powerful ability.

    #169991

    Astraflame
    Member

    And that’s true about the humans. Their Longswordmen are just a bad version of the Orc Greatsword really =)

    That’s why, coz they haven’t any useful and powerful ability.

    Yep, sucky version of the orc:D Halberdier replaces them without any doubts except for a Theocrat(Devout) I even find the Elven infantry more useful since their superior archers can do with any protection, they just need something to distract the creep. With human i typically go straight for the War Hall and never even bother with longswordmen.

    Human longsword is IMO a valid target for a small buff, a new ability or better damage, maybe armor piercing. I’d like to use longswordmen since they are
    aesthetically pleasing.

    #170013

    Zaskow
    Member

    Or Creeping wounds.

    #170373

    llfoso
    Member

    I was gonna make a thread for humans too, but the first threads didn’t get a positive response.

    I wish the longswords could switch between two-handed and sword-and-shield. That would make them really versatile. But that would be tough to implement…whole new animations.

    #170938

    ninninnin
    Member

    union guards are going to overtake high elf swordsmen as the go to melee unit much like halberdiers do for humans. id go as far as to say union guards are now better than halberdiers. they could be a touchy thing to buff, they are supposed to be worse than their dwarf and orc counterparts who both have mediocre archers and pikemen in return.
    in a way its an advantage over those races who dont have the advantage of a more general purpose unit. infantry in general could probably use some toughening up across the board though.
    the orc and dwarf t1 infantry are fine after their new abilities but if all infantry would get buffed, i would expect these guys to maintain their relative strength compared to the infantry of less melee oriented races.

    could also just say “forget those guys, theyre outclassed” and give them totally different units.

    a friend of mine suggested giving longswordsmen bonus damage against cavalry, although i dont see much purpose in that if youre building halberdiers to replace them anyways.

    #171251

    kugi
    Member

    I always thought that the “Armour and Shild” is not the elfish style, remove both of them and add another sword (sprint + matrial arts + first strike) instead. Like Drizdourden!

    #171283

    Gloweye
    Member

    I always thought that the “Armour and Shild” is not the elfish style, remove both of them and add another sword (sprint + matrial arts + first strike) instead. Like Drizdourden!

    Sounds more like a T2 to me, like the old Dark Elf Bladedancer. Now that was a fun unit. However, making it a T2 would require putting it at the War Hall, which would make the Union Guard go to the Barracks – not a good plan if you ask me, with the strength that that one has.

    #171292

    Mythabril
    Member

    Swordmen are cheap units used for blocking and to throw at a wall more as a distraction. In the first purpose they are made obsolete by pikemen. In the second purpose they lose their efficiency against stronger defences rather quick.

    For High Elf, I’d replace inflict bleeding wounds on elite with martial arts and maybe add sprint on veteran. So they can close the gap to the walls asap and if they survive long enough actually are tough enough to maintain a purpose as defenders even later in the game.

    The Human I’d give a shield to their overwhelm, which would make a rather unique combination.

    #171309

    kugi
    Member

    Sounds more like a T2 to me, like the old Dark Elf Bladedancer. Now that was a fun unit. However, making it a T2 would require putting it at the War Hall, which would make the Union Guard go to the Barracks – not a good plan if you ask me, with the strength that that one has.

    Remove Armour and Shild, add matrial arts on start, add sprint on veteran, first strike on silver and inflict bleeding wounds on gold… in this way seems to me a T1. Is it too OP?

    #171414

    ninninnin
    Member

    Sounds more like a T2 to me, like the old Dark Elf Bladedancer. Now that was a fun unit. However, making it a T2 would require putting it at the War Hall, which would make the Union Guard go to the Barracks – not a good plan if you ask me, with the strength that that one has.

    i dont think thats a bad idea for humans however as halberds and longswordsmen are are at a similar strength, just one also has the advantage of first strike and pikeman bonuses.
    i thought about suggesting they be remade into t2 units but it seemed uncalled for.
    i was always hoping for the return of blade dancers in the expansion, though they would need something to differentiate them from berserkers, maybe martial arts and projectile resistance and or a guaranteed dodge against a counter attack/attack of opportunity on a 1 turn cooldown.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 50 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.