Give elf swordsmen a little something.

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Balance Give elf swordsmen a little something.

This topic contains 49 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  vota dc 7 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 31 through 50 (of 50 total)
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  • #172264

    llfoso
    Member

    Did anyone see my thread recommending coup-de-grace on longswords? It would work really well with throw net.

    Remove Armour and Shild, add matrial arts on start, add sprint on veteran, first strike on silver and inflict bleeding wounds on gold… in this way seems to me a T1. Is it too OP?

    Yes, a new ability at every rank is too much. One inherent and one at gold (which they already have) is best I think. Plus, although the blade dancer idea is really cool I like the current unit model, and the shield fits well for guarding archers and approaching walls.

    #172484

    LoQueSeaLoco
    Member

    Why not give them martial arts? It would fit very well flavor wise; I’m sure we all associate elves with very acrobatic swordfighting, and it would give them a little more survivability to make up for their measly offense.

    I’m talking about gifts that make them special, not just stat boosts. I don’t mind a unit being weaker as long as it’s not samey. I suppose I shouldn’t have put this in the balance subforum.

    If you want to give more flavour to an elf unit, what about Total Awareness?

    I don’t think this is about making High Elf Swordsmen another super unit, but rather just making him viable in any sense and form.

    +1 for Martial Arts C=

    To me the Elf Swordsmen is simply there to defend his Longbowmen brethren, so instead of Martial Arts I would give him Defender.

    There are plenty more units who didn’t have santa come along. Human Longswordsman, Draconian Crusher and Halfling Nightwatch for example(Halflings have generally had the fewest presents…)

    Also, I don’t think the unit needs it. You shouldn’t want to pick elves for the infantry, and all other units they have are pretty strong ATM.

    Despite my suggestions for the sake of discussion, this is how I see this.

    Also, to be clear, my suggestions don’t have balance in mind, rather the need for flavour or buffing as has been mentioned here.

    #172488

    llfoso
    Member

    If you want to give more flavour to an elf unit, what about Total Awareness?

    To be honest, that’s what I really wanted, but I felt certain people would cry OP. Martial arts seemed like a more modest proposal.

    Defender’s not bad either.

    Anyway, this is for flavor, not balance. Without a stat boost to their attack swordsmen still aren’t going to compete with other infantry (except marauders).

    #172574

    NuMetal
    Member

    To be honest, that’s what I really wanted, but I felt certain people would cry OP.

    I would! 🙂

    It’s just that I really don’t want Total Awareness to spread any further since it just disables one of the really important and good mechanics in this game.

    #172693

    vota dc
    Member

    I’m not sure that Total Awareness is so better than Martial Arts for a swordsman that will receive a lot of retaliation attacks and won’t be flanked so often because it doesn’t inflict so much damage so you focus on killing more dangerous units.

    #172732

    Gyor
    Member

    How about an ability that would allow Elven Swordsmen to run over Dwarven Shields to attack a hoard of Orcs? 🙂 Bonus points if you get the reference.

    #172766

    Joni
    Member

    To me the Elf Swordsmen is simply there to defend his Longbowmen brethren, so instead of Martial Arts I would give him Defender.

    I like this a lot. Fits well thematically as well as visually (their shields are quite big!) and doesn’t appear to be more than a minor buff.

    Also, if I am not mistaken, Defender hasn’t been put on any other T1 unit, so it’d be quite unique but not really powerful as this ability scales better with higher tiers.

    +1

    #172807

    Prodigal Sun
    Member

    It is a larger buff than you would think. The swordsman has 12 defense and 10 resistance at gold medal. Then 40% to both with Defender. If I am doing the math right that is 20 armor and 14 resistance when rounded up and I haven’t even counted the Shield’s +2 armor. Now tell that isn’t strong for a T1 😛

    I do not think any sorts of buff in any area is justified for, arguably, the strongest race in the game. If flavour is asked for then tone down the stats – Eves aren’t a bland race in any case.

    #173548

    Hatmage
    Member

    If I may make suggestions for elven, human and draconian melee troops.

    Elven melee is probably the trickiest. It needs a reason to exist, but elves are excessively powerful already. I’m tempted to suggest giving them a ranged attack on gold rank, perhaps throw javelin, to fit with the shooting focused nature of elvendom. It would also let them fill a role similar to elven irregulars when the irregulars evolve. It wouldn’t make the unit overpowered, because it is at odds with shield, but would make it unique.

    Human Longswordsmen should have martial arts. They wield german longswords and dress in german style, and thus the central idea of german longsword fencing – that a masterful strike should both stop the opponent’s attack and attack him in one motion – fits well, and happens to have a prexisting mechanic that represents it perfectly. It may be OP if they still get bleeding wounds on gold, so having it as a total replacement for bleeding wounds might be best.

    Draconian Crushers should recieve demolisher if they don’t already. The name crusher does rather suggest that crushing things should come naturally to them.

    #173648

    Fenraellis
    Member

    It is a larger buff than you would think. The swordsman has 12 defense and 10 resistance at gold medal. Then 40% to both with Defender. If I am doing the math right that is 20 armor and 14 resistance when rounded up and I haven’t even counted the Shield’s +2 armor. Now tell that isn’t strong for a T1 😛

    16.8 -> 17 Def from Defender, actually :P, although Shield will functionally bring that up to 19.
    (19.6 -> 20 from base 14 when it’s Elite, though.)

    #173693

    About the only thing that you could do to improve the High Elf Swordsman would be to give them a once per battle ability like “shield wall” which would grant +3 defense rather than 2, and increase the ranged penalty from shooting through them by 25% for 3 turns.

    However, this would also make them lose half their mp for the duration. So they’d be vulnerable to being kited, or simply ran around.

    #173899

    Prodigal Sun
    Member

    16.8 -> 17 Def from Defender, actually :P , although Shield will functionally bring that up to 19.<br>
    (19.6 -> 20 from base 14 when it’s Elite, though.)

    Ahh, no stacking. It did look too good to be true, hehe, but good to know! Still is very good for a T1 unit 🙂

    #174759

    Buczer
    Member

    just give them projectile resistance to make them better in sieges and thats all.

    Human one is more tricky.

    #174923

    Astraflame
    Member

    Devs ( Tombles ? = ) reading this thread? Elf could probably be given a little something and human longsword as well. Orc T1 is super buffed, feels a bit unfair .

    #174942

    Gloweye
    Member

    Orc T1 is super buffed, feels a bit unfair .

    It’s had 1 ability. Also, Elves were and still are in at least as good a position as orcs are.

    And Elves got Total Awareness on Supports(Ouch), and Shock Damage/Inflict Shocking on the Pikes. Try using those with Gold Medal Storm Sisters.

    #174954

    Astraflame
    Member

    Also orc archer, that’s 1 ability on two units and both of them were strong even without it. Elf T1 might be on par but human longsword could recieve a little something at least.

    #177090

    llfoso
    Member

    Actually, now that I think of it giving them an ability like predator with the bonus damage to opportunity attacks would be the best thing. It gives them a role of forming a wall for the archers, “you’re not getting past me!” you know? Unfortunately that’s a tigran thing so I don’t know if it’s appropriate.

    #177495

    Akinaba
    Member

    I allready said this in other thread and I will also do in this: everythiing that would make them to fulfill their intended “defender” role would fit. Such as:

    * Steal Enchantment
    * Absorb Pain
    * Defensive Strike
    * Martial Arts (as Zaskow once suggested) at some medal
    * Projectile Resistance (I’m totally for that!)

    #177506

    oscaros
    Member

    Hi,

    My opinion with such a low experience in the game is that elf swordsmen are fine as they are now, they have shield which is a good defense bonus and define their defensive role synergyng theoretically with the offensive longbowmen.So they seem fit well in the elf army, and at the end they are tier 1 unit with their ratial differentiation. The feel more like a accesory part of the elf army more than the key unit of the army. So they have a specific role and that’s all with not more special flavor. The special flavor is more here in the synergy swordsmen defender, longbowmen attacker.

    Another change would be a simply buff in the unit. If you want good melee elf warrior go for warrior class, or maybe wait a new concept of elf race more focused in melee phalanx style. Maybe could be improved in the last medals with some of the abilities you are saying to transform then in a pseudo – elite defender for the elf army.

    #177517

    vota dc
    Member

    Since Frostlings have a pike that absorb pain from ladies only they could do something similar with High Elves, an elf that absorb pain of archers with only 1-1 ratio and need to be near the unit that want to protect.

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